I might as well chip in with my tuppence worth.
I would do an hCG blast followed by SERM therapy.
Something like:
-1000iu hCG eod for a total of 10,000iu
-4 weeks of clomid at 50mg, with a 5th at clomid 50mg eod
-In week 3 of the clomid I’d add nolva at 20mg daily for 4 weeks.
-When I added the nolva I’d also take stinging nettle extract at 250mg eod for three weeks
That should do it.
^this sounds good.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
^this sounds good.[/quote]
it’s pretty much my standard PCT.
I taper my test down into it and actually start the clomid while I’m waiting for the test to clear.
[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
And If I remember correctly I waited 2 weeks after last pin to start pct. [/quote]
Your problem is in your PCT, I can almost guarantee it.
You didnt wait long enough to start your PCT. You started only 2 WEEKS after your last pin. You need 4 weeks to let the ester clear out of your system.
Do you have any HCG left? Start taking 250eod for 2 weeks and then start nolva at a low dose (20mg) for 8 weeks. Get blood work done again to see where your estro is at, because you might need an AI to get your levels down before starting your serm.
[/quote]
you understand the PCT should be started while there is still some test in the system, right? otherwise, if someone did what you said, they would go from high to low to normal, instead of just high to normal…
and 20 mg of nolva is not a “low dose,” that’s a normal dose.
[/quote]
here’s a more detailed explanation of this:
say you’re on 500 mg a week of test e. test e has a half life of 4.5 days, but we’ll use 5 for the sake of simplicity.
your last dose is 500 mg, 5 days later it’s 250, 10 days later its 125, 15 days later it’s 62, 20 days later it’s 36, etc… obviously the previous doses would add in to the total as well.
however, we don’t wait for the entire ester to clear to start PCT. we wait until most of the ester is cleared to the point of being close to what you’d normally have for test levels. men produce between 20-70 mg a week, so we’d want to start PCT when the ester is at the high end of the spectrum. this way the exogenous test is going down as our own production is going up.
maybe part of the issue with PCT confusion is that people think it’s a distinctly different part of the cycle, whereas it’s more of a transitional period, than anything else…
[/quote]
Interesting, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.
So 2 weeks would have been ideal for him to start his PCT?
[/quote]
yeah, i believe 2 weeks is usually best with test e/cyp. with something like prop, you can start immediately, whereas Sustanon you need to wait for about a month (due to the longer esters).
i suggest people use an excel spreadsheet to break it all down, though, based off their doses, etc…
[quote]jzy50309 wrote:
I don’t know much regarding this topic except from what I’ve researched myself, and what has worked for friends. I know certain users use HCG but is it not more effective (normal/cookie cutter) to have a PCT comprised of Nolva and Chlomid. I can’t remember the exact dosages but I know the dose of Chlomid starts relatively high (guessing 100mg) and is tapered down. Similarily is the Nolva, but it isn’t as high (40mg) From what my “friends” have told me it depends on the specific ester you take, whether its Test P/E, that will dictate when you start your PCT. I will be watching this thread, as the OP is my age, and would like to lend my support. As well as wish him a speedy recovery [/quote]
i would not suggest running high doses of SERMs like this.
SERMs and HCG can actually increase estrogen via aromatization of testosterone (in addition to raising LH and test). and from a clinical perspective, “lower doses” of clomid (25-50 mg/day) and nolva (20 mg/day) work just fine. just because they block the estrogen receptor doesn’t mean that they prevent estrogen accumulation in the body.
however, if one does not address estrogen, your testosterone will not rise. estrogen is a far stronger negative feedback signal that testosterone is. if you have high estrogen, then your body presumes that it’s a result of having testosterone that’s too high, so you won’t increase test production until estrogen is in a lower range. <this is obviously how SERMs work, as the convince your body that estrogen is low by blocking the signal at the receptor. but, if you allow estrogen to accumulate while you’re taking the SERM, you still have the estrogen to deal with when you come off. so either one should transition into PCT with the AI, or add in an AI as one comes off PCT.
this is why is so important to maintain estrogen control on cycle into PCT, and why i find it so fucking annoying that the OP will not get his estrogen checked and keeps asking about other things to take at this point…
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]jzy50309 wrote:
I don’t know much regarding this topic except from what I’ve researched myself, and what has worked for friends. I know certain users use HCG but is it not more effective (normal/cookie cutter) to have a PCT comprised of Nolva and Chlomid. I can’t remember the exact dosages but I know the dose of Chlomid starts relatively high (guessing 100mg) and is tapered down. Similarily is the Nolva, but it isn’t as high (40mg) From what my “friends” have told me it depends on the specific ester you take, whether its Test P/E, that will dictate when you start your PCT. I will be watching this thread, as the OP is my age, and would like to lend my support. As well as wish him a speedy recovery [/quote]
i would not suggest running high doses of SERMs like this.
SERMs and HCG can actually increase estrogen via aromatization of testosterone (in addition to raising LH and test). and from a clinical perspective, “lower doses” of clomid (25-50 mg/day) and nolva (20 mg/day) work just fine. just because they block the estrogen receptor doesn’t mean that they prevent estrogen accumulation in the body.
however, if one does not address estrogen, your testosterone will not rise. estrogen is a far stronger negative feedback signal that testosterone is. if you have high estrogen, then your body presumes that it’s a result of having testosterone that’s too high, so you won’t increase test production until estrogen is in a lower range. <this is obviously how SERMs work, as the convince your body that estrogen is low by blocking the signal at the receptor. but, if you allow estrogen to accumulate while you’re taking the SERM, you still have the estrogen to deal with when you come off. so either one should transition into PCT with the AI, or add in an AI as one comes off PCT.
this is why is so important to maintain estrogen control on cycle into PCT, and why i find it so fucking annoying that the OP will not get his estrogen checked and keeps asking about other things to take at this point…
[/quote]
Damn it’s been a couple days since Ive posted this. My doctor told me to wait to go get another blood test. I’m sorry I didn’t get my estrogen tested. At least I’m trying. You may be surprised or you may not but the couple people I know at my gym using gear dont there blood done. Shit they barely take any time off, some do a 12 to 15 week cycle and then only take about 2 months off. I don’t know everything but I know ( time on = time off) as soon as I’m able to I will go back and get my blood tested again.
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]jzy50309 wrote:
I don’t know much regarding this topic except from what I’ve researched myself, and what has worked for friends. I know certain users use HCG but is it not more effective (normal/cookie cutter) to have a PCT comprised of Nolva and Chlomid. I can’t remember the exact dosages but I know the dose of Chlomid starts relatively high (guessing 100mg) and is tapered down. Similarily is the Nolva, but it isn’t as high (40mg) From what my “friends” have told me it depends on the specific ester you take, whether its Test P/E, that will dictate when you start your PCT. I will be watching this thread, as the OP is my age, and would like to lend my support. As well as wish him a speedy recovery [/quote]
i would not suggest running high doses of SERMs like this.
SERMs and HCG can actually increase estrogen via aromatization of testosterone (in addition to raising LH and test). and from a clinical perspective, “lower doses” of clomid (25-50 mg/day) and nolva (20 mg/day) work just fine. just because they block the estrogen receptor doesn’t mean that they prevent estrogen accumulation in the body.
however, if one does not address estrogen, your testosterone will not rise. estrogen is a far stronger negative feedback signal that testosterone is. if you have high estrogen, then your body presumes that it’s a result of having testosterone that’s too high, so you won’t increase test production until estrogen is in a lower range. <this is obviously how SERMs work, as the convince your body that estrogen is low by blocking the signal at the receptor. but, if you allow estrogen to accumulate while you’re taking the SERM, you still have the estrogen to deal with when you come off. so either one should transition into PCT with the AI, or add in an AI as one comes off PCT.
this is why is so important to maintain estrogen control on cycle into PCT, and why i find it so fucking annoying that the OP will not get his estrogen checked and keeps asking about other things to take at this point…
[/quote]
Agreed. Yogi, I know you posted you were able to take a decent amount of HCG, and repsond well, but I can’t even handle 250iu eod… I had to drop it down to 200 or else my sack shrivels up and I get white pubes.
The OP will have to play around with the dosages, but I think he should start on the lower end of the spectrum before bumping it up.
OP… go to the next state over if you have to and GET YOUR FUCKING ESTROGEN CHECKED via privatemedlabs.
[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
Agreed. Yogi, I know you posted you were able to take a decent amount of HCG, and repsond well, but I can’t even handle 250iu eod… I had to drop it down to 200 or else my sack shrivels up and I get white pubes. [/quote]
Wtf???
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
Agreed. Yogi, I know you posted you were able to take a decent amount of HCG, and repsond well, but I can’t even handle 250iu eod… I had to drop it down to 200 or else my sack shrivels up and I get white pubes. [/quote]
Wtf??? [/quote]
yeah dude that is seriously messed up…
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
Agreed. Yogi, I know you posted you were able to take a decent amount of HCG, and repsond well, but I can’t even handle 250iu eod… I had to drop it down to 200 or else my sack shrivels up and I get white pubes. [/quote]
Wtf??? [/quote]
yeah dude that is seriously messed up…[/quote]
I fully agree with both of you.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
I might as well chip in with my tuppence worth.
I would do an hCG blast followed by SERM therapy.
Something like:
-1000iu hCG eod for a total of 10,000iu
-4 weeks of clomid at 50mg, with a 5th at clomid 50mg eod
-In week 3 of the clomid I’d add nolva at 20mg daily for 4 weeks.
-When I added the nolva I’d also take stinging nettle extract at 250mg eod for three weeks
That should do it.[/quote]
is stinging nettle something you can get in a store ? i see stinging nettle root extract and stinging nettle leaf extract?
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
I might as well chip in with my tuppence worth.
I would do an hCG blast followed by SERM therapy.
Something like:
-1000iu hCG eod for a total of 10,000iu
-4 weeks of clomid at 50mg, with a 5th at clomid 50mg eod
-In week 3 of the clomid I’d add nolva at 20mg daily for 4 weeks.
-When I added the nolva I’d also take stinging nettle extract at 250mg eod for three weeks
That should do it.[/quote]
is stinging nettle something you can get in a store ? i see stinging nettle root extract and stinging nettle leaf extract?
[/quote]
yeah mate, any health shop should have it.
Get the root.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
I might as well chip in with my tuppence worth.
I would do an hCG blast followed by SERM therapy.
Something like:
-1000iu hCG eod for a total of 10,000iu
-4 weeks of clomid at 50mg, with a 5th at clomid 50mg eod
-In week 3 of the clomid I’d add nolva at 20mg daily for 4 weeks.
-When I added the nolva I’d also take stinging nettle extract at 250mg eod for three weeks
That should do it.[/quote]
is stinging nettle something you can get in a store ? i see stinging nettle root extract and stinging nettle leaf extract?
[/quote]
yeah mate, any health shop should have it.
Get the root.
[/quote]
ok now for the nolva when you say week 3 does that mean i’ll be on my 3rd week of clomid and then start nolva ? so 7 weeks total?
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
I might as well chip in with my tuppence worth.
I would do an hCG blast followed by SERM therapy.
Something like:
-1000iu hCG eod for a total of 10,000iu
-4 weeks of clomid at 50mg, with a 5th at clomid 50mg eod
-In week 3 of the clomid I’d add nolva at 20mg daily for 4 weeks.
-When I added the nolva I’d also take stinging nettle extract at 250mg eod for three weeks
That should do it.[/quote]
is stinging nettle something you can get in a store ? i see stinging nettle root extract and stinging nettle leaf extract?
[/quote]
yeah mate, any health shop should have it.
Get the root.
[/quote]
ok now for the nolva when you say week 3 does that mean i’ll be on my 3rd week of clomid and then start nolva ? so 7 weeks total?[/quote]
Yeah, that’s exactly what I mean.
did you get your E tested? I wouldn’t do anything until after that
[quote]Yogi wrote:
did you get your E tested? I wouldn’t do anything until after that[/quote]
no i didnt. do you think if i go to the next state over il have a problem ? i pmed you
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
did you get your E tested? I wouldn’t do anything until after that[/quote]
no i didnt. do you think if i go to the next state over il have a problem ? i pmed you[/quote]
PMs don’t work, and I’m Scottish so I can’t help you with that.
I will say that you really do need to get a full hormone profile before you start blindly throwing medications at your problem.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
did you get your E tested? I wouldn’t do anything until after that[/quote]
no i didnt. do you think if i go to the next state over il have a problem ? i pmed you[/quote]
PMs don’t work, and I’m Scottish so I can’t help you with that.
I will say that you really do need to get a full hormone profile before you start blindly throwing medications at your problem.[/quote]
I’m still waiting to get into the doctors so he can send me to get blood work. I have the HCG And clomid, just waiting on the nolva. And that’s if il even need it n
[quote]powerstrokin wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
did you get your E tested? I wouldn’t do anything until after that[/quote]
no i didnt. do you think if i go to the next state over il have a problem ? i pmed you[/quote]
If youre referring to private mdlabs as you go through the process to purchase bloodwork they will bring up different lab locations you can go to to have your blood drawn. I dont see why going to another state would be a problem. Your state just doesnt offer the service for whatever reason.
yea im just going to go to my doctors. it sucks it takes so long for me to get in to see him. I have the hcg right now, would it hurt to at least start the hcg ? ive been taking phytoserms and my balls have been aching so i think thats a sign its working but I want to do the hcg, clomid and nolva mentioned by yogi