As a therapeutic drug, testosterone suffers simultaneously from both overuse and underuse. There is clear evidence of under-diagnosis of AD in affected young men, warranting more systematic efforts for efficient detection and testosterone treatment for an easily rectifiable condition that has lifelong consequences on quality of life. At the same time, the lay mystique of testosterone as a sex hormone encoding the virile properties of masculinity attracts male consumers of drugs for panacea or pleasure. This has created a boom in testosterone treatment for older men despite serious doubts about safety, probably fuelled by promotional activity of enthusiasts, single-issue clinics and societies running well beyond prudence in the post-Women’s Health Initiative environment. It is a major challenge for our future as to whether the key tools of mass health education can straddle the subtlety of goals, which appear, simplistically, to be in conflict with each other.
I think irony is a good description. We need to keep the TOT option open but educate men on the risks so they understand these going in. In my opinion these risks are underestimated until it becomes personal for the user.
But at least guys have a legal option and opportunity to have various levels of care and blood work by providers.
symptom relief is arbitrary. It’s not defined. And as @lordgains said, at some point, you are masking something else with T. You can fix the problem, or patch the problem. Some problems can’t be fixed, and you are left with accepting the patch.
My symptom was that I couldn’t workout hard 2 times a day and have sex for hours each night. TOT allowed me to be superman. Outside of recovery, my natural 400ish level and TOT didn’t have any difference on how I felt. Symptom relief means different things to different people. My TOT did come with health consequences.
Bph over 4, difficulty peeing, high cholesterol, lipids over range, low libido, erection issues, anxiety. All which could be treated with more drugs. I did enjoy the recovery, strength, and muscle building side effects!
It amazes me the amount of “other” stuff people injecting T also have to take because of the T. I listen to Ron Harris and Dr T. Both of them take a lot of other shit because of what they inject. Even on this forum, people list other things.
If this is appropriate and that additional testosterone may be necessary, yet not sufficient, maybe for this conversation to be comprehensive it should include the other substances that the additional testosterone seems to require.
I mostly lurk on these forums. As a middle aged guy who is borderline (~400) and been seriously considering TRT for quality of life purposes - this has been one of the most enlightening and interesting discussions I have seen pretty much anywhere. Graphs and charts included.
It’s very hard to have or find good conversations in re: to the pros/cons/risks and what type of levels one “should” have or one “should” try to optimize to… that don’t feel like full blown marketing pitches or give “that just sounds… dangerous” feelings.
Gave me lots to think on. Just wanted to say thanks.
Thank you for taking the time to provide feedback @prouser. Best wishes with your decisions and journey. Just knowing this information is useful to someone in the same place i was is great to hear.
Check out the TRT thread as well if you want a little more spirited back and forth.
I also appreciate these threads as it has given me lots to think about. I seem to be doing better on the cream I started a little over a week ago. I have to be very patient but everything in this thread has been helpful.
I have been in the 115 to 311 range for over 10 years. Mostly low total in the 144 range. Free just started dropping blow the minimum last year. I have had irritability and anxiety for years and now have started to wonder how much has been low T for me.
One issue I have noticed is it is very psychologically confusing that I may have a new normal in life. I hope it’s a good new normal…
Glad to hear you are feeling better and that Dr. Nichols has you on a reasonable protocol that you are comfortable with. That’s awesome. Give it time (6 week safety panel with blood work) and let us know how you are feeling at 12, 24, 52 weeks.
I actually did a consulate but I am seeing a urologist and a pharmacist that has a PhD so we are using a compound cream on the deltoids. I have thought about scrotal application but am seeing a benefit so am not rocking the boat. I don’t know much about extra DHT and absorption so am doing a consult with the pharmacist again. I have read all about Dr. Nichols but I don’t agree with supraphysical levels. At least for me. It is purely starting slow and going for symptom relief. Sorry, if I was not clear on the Dr. Nichols part.
I have blood work in 4 plus weeks with the urologist at the University Medical Center and then will see him. So that is at the 6 week mark of starting the cream. Not sure what labs I need to push. I was thinking to make sure they do estrodiol, progestrone and DHEA maybe. Thoughts?
I can agree with your statements. Being slightly above range (slightly meaning not cycling!) could very well be a net positive if done for a short period of time as you may be able to shed fat faster (more aggressive dieting) and build muscle faster, which takes months of being overweight off the clock. Just remember that there are consequences to high AAS in the body and that the thrombocytes, heart muscle, vessels, kidneys and brain get affected by it, not only fat mass and muscle mass. So if something shows up, better dial back.
I think the most important factor in your case is time. Slightly above range for half a year may not be that bad but continuously over years will likely be a net negative in the end.
It is also clear that you would reach your fitness goals with test at the level of a 25 year old, without ever going supra. Especially since on a harsh diet being at the middle range in test IS actually Supra physiological. If you measure testosterone in low calorie diets or during dieting with low body fat, they are very likely below the range.
But I understand the motivation. And as I’ve stated a few times, I will likely do the same. I would just not call it normal TRT or advise everyone to do so or solely go by symptom resolution (which is arbitrary).
I’m completely fine with what you are doing. If you keep an eye on markers and early signs of problems, even better.
The bigger picture is that when we were younger, our bodies were chugging along synthesizing pregnenolone, DHEA, neuropeptides, along with testosterone. Our thyroid, adrenal glands, pituitary and hypothalamus were optimally functioning. For some men, just the ‘right’ amount of testosterone(whatever the dose) is enough to restore sexual function and improve overall health. For others, such as myself, not so. At one time, my urologist agreed to higher dosing. Tried 250 per week(125 E3.5 days) All I did was gain more weight and actually felt more depressed.
I’m taking a break from T and focusing on supplementing with pregnenolone, DHEA and thyroid, with comprehensive labs in 6 to 8 weeks.
