Hi guys just found this forum looking for somewhere to talk and discuss my issues.
I am a 23 yr old male form aust. I have had very hard trouble gaining size and reducing abdominal fat my whole life. I have suffered anxiety and depression and was told to take ssri’s i havebeen for the last 7 years. After reading and studying nutrition after becoming interested in health i found out alot of the symtpons i suffer can be a result of low test. (sweats, ed , trouble sleeping, depression mood swings.)
I also had high cholesterol on my last blood test. I re did a fasting test first thing in the morning and got my results back and i have low T.
Results
Androgens Testosterone range (8.3-29) 7.8nmol/L*. Still high bad cholesterol but i have rad low test can do that.
I exercise often compound lifts my 1rms are currently squat 150kg deadlift 200kg powerclean 85kg bench 105kg.
Apparently for my lifts and t levels i am going very well. I am stronger then alot of guys in the gym who are on gear so at least i am happy about that.
I am worried to go on TRT only masks symptons it does not fix what is causing the problem. I have t wait till the 3rd of march to see the specialist and it is sending me out of my mind.
I have spoken to people already and they have suggested to get on Reandron 1000, andarimidex & also to take DIM plus (herbal suppliment).
Just after some peoples views on TRT at such a young age, will my balls shrink and give me other problems, i feel like less of a man for having this problem and ED that comes with it i cant sleep at night and i am just ticking the days over in my head till i cna see the specialist.
Are there any tests i can get ordered before hand so i can just turn up with everything he needs so i dont have to wait more days???
I dont know the point of this post maybe that i only want to hear support from people who udnerstand my situation.
When handling cases such as these I would examine and try to find root cause of the problem. A simple solution may just be to look at lifestyle, nutritonal imbalances, other hormonal imbalances such as adrenls, and hidden issues that may be affecting hormonal signalling from the pituitary.
You need to get with a good Dr who takes a holisitic approach to things and that will not just use speciic drugs for a bandaid method which I see often from Dr’s being lazy. TSH >2 is red flag for thyroid issues
Hi please go into it a little more re thyroid. Is mine out is it?
The dr today ordered a testicular ultra sounds and he said i am suffering from a bit of gyno. He says i have probably had this for some time.
He wants to wait for other tests to come back then he suggested somehting about pellets being the way to go.
He also told me to sotp doing compound exercises for now until they can see if my bone density hasbeen affected somehting aobut snapping your t6 vertibre ! :S
Do not do T pellets, read the posts here about that -not good.
Read the ‘protocol for injections’ sticky at the top of the topic list.
Use wiki to read about things:
REANDRON® 1000 [Testosterone undecanoate] is a testosterone ester. It has no real advantages over testosterone cypionate, propanate or ethanate.
Please do not use brand names here, use generic names.
andarimidex = and arimidex
Yes, you will need Armidex/anastrozole to control E2 [estradiol] levels.
Thyroid… read at wikipedia
Thyroid hormones are amino acid based with iodine atoms. You need to be using iodized salt to maintain your iodine levels. If dietary intake of iodine is low enough to create thyroid problems, you need to take supplements with iodine, or change salt, before you take prescribed thyroid hormones.
Adrenals: If T is low DHEA might be low. Get blood test for DHEA-S. You can take DHEA supplements, which might need to be prescribed in your country.
Some drugs, including SSRI’s, can increase E levels by reducing the ability of the liver to remove estrogens from your body. Increased estrogens will reduce your T production and T levels fall. The ratio of T:E can become a real problem. You need to review all drugs for such effects.
Sorry i dont know about brand names i only know what people and or the dr has said.
I have requested DHEA and other things on monday only half the results came back to day and they are. ( i dont know how to read this part)
FSH 2iu/l RANGE male <60 <7
>60 <14
LH 1.7iu/l RANGE <60 <7
>60 <11
oest 145 pmol/L RANGE <150
PROG 3 nmol/L RANGE 0.9-3.9
Ferritin 187 ug/L RANGE (20-300)
I know a few athletes who have this problem and reccomended against weekly injecitons as they cause fluctuations and depression.
This dr who i saw i suggested this to said to go with the pellets and he deals with alot of lets say “genetically superior” people who visit the gym so i assumed he would know what works best.
Its very hard for me havign 3 different opinions on the 1 matter from especially if they are relaiable sources. i.e DR who is suposed to know , people who have tried all methods, and general internet populaitons vote.
So if i poke your brain please dont feel like i dont give a shit aobut what you think i just want to uderstand “WHY”. I can tell a 18yo that compound exercises are suppiror to isolaiton in regards to strength training. But if i dont tell him why then chances are he isnt going to listen.
I will be back later to post the rest of my results. I will search for the pellet thread thanks.
The T levels from pellets starts off high and falls as the surface area of the pellets gets smaller as they are absorbed. Read what others have posted in the above threads.
Doctors like pellets because they can charge for a minor office surgical procedure. More money than giving you a piece of paper to take to the pharmacist/chemist. Doctors mostly only know what drug companies tell them.
Yes, you will find conflicting information…
So how are these things going to be paid for? Are some options low cost for you and other costly?
Well since my levls fall outside of the specified range i am entitled to a discount. I am also a student who concession card for health. In this country dr’s bulk bill so they charge medicare(the government) for the cost of the consult. This is paid for with our taxes.
Since i am a student with no proper income i am intitled to a cocnession card this means majority of medicaitons that are needed for normal health cost me $5 no matter what it is…
For example
ssri’s benzo’s ect ect fall under this catagory.
Viagra ect does not so you pay the full price as it is nt a neccesity to your health to have a hard dick (so they think).
Im not sure how i go about paying for surgery procedures though like you stated.
I understand what you are saying about the pellets and i agree with you. I just dont like the idea of injections every other day ect.
So Testosterone undecanoate is not as good as everyone makes out? The idea of 1 injeciton every 10 weeks sounds very promising.
I know everyone will have there own opinions on what works and what doesnt. So the more people that get together and share experience we can get a better understanding of how things actually work. It is one thing for somehting to look good in theory and another for it to to actually work.
The T levels from pellets starts off high and falls as the surface area of the pellets gets smaller as they are absorbed. Read what others have posted in the above threads.
Doctors like pellets because they can charge for a minor office surgical procedure. More money than giving you a piece of paper to take to the pharmacist/chemist. Doctors mostly only know what drug companies tell them.
Yes, you will find conflicting information…
So how are these things going to be paid for? Are some options low cost for you and other costly?[/quote]
That first link is saying that pellets are a better option?
[quote]I’ve had no sides other than the aforementioned oily skin and zits, although also turned into somewhat of a horn dog.
I’ve done injections, and I had nowhere near the response I’ve had on the pellets. I’ve got absolutely no complaints.
doctornorm [/quote]
There are so many people of either side of the fence and there grass is greener then the opposite…
You will figure it out, just think about the facts and the experiences.
As [all] T esters are absorbed into the body, the ester groups are removed and the result is [bio-identical] testosterone, the same end point. If you inject more often to get steady levels, then fast acting or long acting is not an issue. Some T esters deliver more T than others because of the different weights of the ester groups. Think of the ester groups as packaging that the body throws way. The esters of testosterone are oil soluble. Injecting T esters in oil is a time release delivery system.
[quote]n00bs wrote:
So what ester delivers more t?
What is the best bang for buck to be using? [/quote]
Bang for buck depends on what YOUR costs are, depending on where you purchase. If you can get something at Sam’s Club for 1/2 what pharmacy chains sell, whatever Sam’s sells wins. If your doc will increase dose, less of an issue. If doc only does 100mg, then you would do better with ethanate vs cypionate. You are then looking for lower molecular weight esters. Some info here: http://steroidbuyersguide.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=111&Itemid=45
You can try lowering E2 which is near the top of the range. Do that long term and you can do short term nolvadex, tapering out. During SERM use, you will probably need more anastrozole if your body is responding well.
You can lower your LDL and increase HDL with vitamins. Getting your T levels restored will lower LDL.
DHEA is low for your age! I think that you need a script for that there. Suggest 50mg/day. Also wrong test as DHEA levels are ever changing. Test should be DHEA-S, the sulfate, which provides a better measure of DHEA status. DHEA is an adrenal hormone, as are progesterone and cortisol. These other hormones are in upper range. Was the cortisol an early morning test?
LF = LH?, if so, edit your post above.
So you are not taking any meds that might be increasing your estrogen levels?
I take effexor for panic disorder, I dont know the correlation between that and e2… I havenot had e2 test results returned yet. No dr’s would test e2 i snuck it on the form myself.
Im starting to think the panic disorder is a misdiagnosed hormone fuck up…
Cortisol was first thing in the morning but i hate needles and with panic disorder anxiety it could be a smoking test as i may have raised it due to my stress levels.
I want to do the 4 times a day salivary one but no dr’s will prescirbe it for me as they say it is within range and not a problem and that sodium and potassium is fine and if it was a problem other things wouldbe affected so they see no need…
The specialist ordered DHEA im starting to think forum goers know more then dr’s in a sense that if you have this affleciton then you are constantly researching it and nothing else so in essence someone with the problem would be more learned then a dr because that one problem would be their “specialty”
I have a script for ariminax but im not sure if i should get it or ask for nolva or clomid, I do not know enough about them apparently the 3 work differently so im not sure what would be best in my situaiton… I have an mri tomorrow morning So hopefully i dont have a brain tumour but we will wait and see.
Cortisol: If you are wired at night and cannot settle down, then you might have a problem. You can get 4 sample saliva tests and pay out of pocket. But best to sit back and see what the other diagnostics find. I agree with your conclusion about reacting to the needles.
SSRI’s can reduce E2 clearance in the liver as both compete for processing by the P450 liver enzyme pathways.
Effexor is highly stimulating for some and that might be stressing your adrenals as a stimulant. Again, could result in evening energy and sleeping issues for some.
My MRI is in 2 months and the ENDO wont see me until i have an MRi done. I have low prolactin so thats good i hopefully dont have a tumour or some defect.
Im still waiting on e2 & ACTH to come back…
Only thing i have changed is i started taking DIM-PLUS (diindolymethane), it appears to have dorpped my estrogen but has also dropped my free tets, but total test is higher? Im confused…
My results look strange to me form what i have read on the matter… Any ideas guys?
I Have very similar issues going on. Low test. Gonads appear totally normal. Minor Gyno. Low fh and LSH. My endo’s a moron. He offered 100 mg Test Cyp and thats it. I just dropped off a huge file at his office with different protocols for injections and research on the benefits of HcG. I also wrote him a letter deomonstrating the importance of finding the root of this problem. He thinks it is brain damage from football.