.22 Target Pistol

As to whether a 22 is a useful training tool:

Certainly, in an ideal world, we would train with the same caliber firearms using the same full-powered ammunition as we expect to use when we fight or hunt.

It is not an ideal world. Every Winchester Silvertip, Speer Gold Dot and Hornady TAP round that we fire downrange at a piece of paper is one less that we have at our disposal when we need it. Ammunition is expensive, and it is scarce. But our skills will degrade if we don’t hone them with constant practice. If you are magnificently wealthy, or have procured a reliable source of cheap full-powered ammunition, or if you are a competent handloader, then perhaps you don’t need to be so frugal. But for the rest of us, blasting away with full-powered ammo is the equivalent of turning money into noise.

It’s generally acknowledged that dry-fire practice on a daily basis with your carry handgun is the best way to keep up your skills. Draw and snap. Draw and snap. But we tend to get bored and lazy. It’s not “real” so we don’t take it as seriously as we should. How much better if we were able to draw and BANG! instead? A .22 pistol that is identical to your carry weapon will allow you to practice with immediate feedback of your strengths and weaknesses, letting you maintain familiarity with the weapon, for only a few dollars per day of rigorous practice.

The next best thing, of course, is an airsoft pistol that is identical to your weapon. The best things about this are that you may practice indoors, and with suitable eye protection even train force-on-force with a similarly-armed opponent. That will give you an immediate and sometimes painful reminder of what you might need to improve on in your technique.

Don’t dismiss the little .22. Better to shoot it often than to shoot your “real” weapon only seldom.

[quote]silverblood wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Well some people are real .22 fanatics. Who am I to judge? But as a point of learning how to shoot, you won’t get any better with a .22 than anything else.
It is an addictive hobby, that is for sure. I was just going to buy one gun, a nice revolver and that was going to be it. Boy did that train leave the tracks in a hurry! I ended up with 6. I love them all, dearly. I have accumulated a 1000+ rounds of target ammo. I am ready to make a dent in that supply, hopefully today.
There are several specific gun threads here…Maybe it’s time for the Gun Love 2 thread?[/quote]

I never thought of it that way, but I’m pretty much a .22 fanatic. All my favorite guns are .22. Ruger 10/22, Mark II, Single Size, CZ-452,… the list goes on and on. Heck, I like my 1911 better with the .22 conversion on. I still think the 10/22 with a 100 rd mag would make an awesome home defense gun.

I can appreciate the recoil junkies, but it’s not for me. I don’t think I’d even want to shoot a .50 BMG (ok, I would, but only once).[/quote]

That’s what I like about guns. Anybody can find their niche. I do like the big calibers, but I wouldn’t call myself a recoil junkie. My .357 has hellacious recoil, but my favorite is my 1911. I like the power and the precision involved in controlling that kind of power. And I just like to blow shit up the more theatrical the better. I love to shoot the +P+ stuff, the well designed and built +P+ doesn’t have the recoil you’d expect, but the bullet gets there in a hurry. It’s just my nature, I like powerful shit. Just (finally) got a muscle car and I cannot get enough. All I want to do is drive and shoot, then drive some more and shoot some more.
I wish somebody made a +++++++++PPPPPPPPPPP+++++++++++ round.[/quote]
is a 45-70 derringer close enough?[/quote]

Close, the guy at the store was trying sell me a 45/70 single action revolver last night. You could use that thing as a cane it’s so big.

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]silverblood wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Well some people are real .22 fanatics. Who am I to judge? But as a point of learning how to shoot, you won’t get any better with a .22 than anything else.
It is an addictive hobby, that is for sure. I was just going to buy one gun, a nice revolver and that was going to be it. Boy did that train leave the tracks in a hurry! I ended up with 6. I love them all, dearly. I have accumulated a 1000+ rounds of target ammo. I am ready to make a dent in that supply, hopefully today.
There are several specific gun threads here…Maybe it’s time for the Gun Love 2 thread?[/quote]

I never thought of it that way, but I’m pretty much a .22 fanatic. All my favorite guns are .22. Ruger 10/22, Mark II, Single Size, CZ-452,… the list goes on and on. Heck, I like my 1911 better with the .22 conversion on. I still think the 10/22 with a 100 rd mag would make an awesome home defense gun.

I can appreciate the recoil junkies, but it’s not for me. I don’t think I’d even want to shoot a .50 BMG (ok, I would, but only once).[/quote]

That’s what I like about guns. Anybody can find their niche. I do like the big calibers, but I wouldn’t call myself a recoil junkie. My .357 has hellacious recoil, but my favorite is my 1911. I like the power and the precision involved in controlling that kind of power. And I just like to blow shit up the more theatrical the better. I love to shoot the +P+ stuff, the well designed and built +P+ doesn’t have the recoil you’d expect, but the bullet gets there in a hurry. It’s just my nature, I like powerful shit. Just (finally) got a muscle car and I cannot get enough. All I want to do is drive and shoot, then drive some more and shoot some more.
I wish somebody made a +++++++++PPPPPPPPPPP+++++++++++ round.[/quote]
is a 45-70 derringer close enough?[/quote]

That’s a giant fucking LOL gun! What’s the barrel length? 1/4"?

And yes, if you like to shoot +P+, Magnums, and drive muscle cars, you’re probably a closet recoil junkie. I have a snub nosed .44 Mag. It’ll definitely let you know when you’ve pulled the trigger, but I think the light weight .380 and 9mm have more snap to them.
[/quote]

Maybe, I love power. Not like power over people but horsepower, fast and heavy projectiles and such.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]silverblood wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Well some people are real .22 fanatics. Who am I to judge? But as a point of learning how to shoot, you won’t get any better with a .22 than anything else.
It is an addictive hobby, that is for sure. I was just going to buy one gun, a nice revolver and that was going to be it. Boy did that train leave the tracks in a hurry! I ended up with 6. I love them all, dearly. I have accumulated a 1000+ rounds of target ammo. I am ready to make a dent in that supply, hopefully today.
There are several specific gun threads here…Maybe it’s time for the Gun Love 2 thread?[/quote]

I never thought of it that way, but I’m pretty much a .22 fanatic. All my favorite guns are .22. Ruger 10/22, Mark II, Single Size, CZ-452,… the list goes on and on. Heck, I like my 1911 better with the .22 conversion on. I still think the 10/22 with a 100 rd mag would make an awesome home defense gun.

I can appreciate the recoil junkies, but it’s not for me. I don’t think I’d even want to shoot a .50 BMG (ok, I would, but only once).[/quote]

That’s what I like about guns. Anybody can find their niche. I do like the big calibers, but I wouldn’t call myself a recoil junkie. My .357 has hellacious recoil, but my favorite is my 1911. I like the power and the precision involved in controlling that kind of power. And I just like to blow shit up the more theatrical the better. I love to shoot the +P+ stuff, the well designed and built +P+ doesn’t have the recoil you’d expect, but the bullet gets there in a hurry. It’s just my nature, I like powerful shit. Just (finally) got a muscle car and I cannot get enough. All I want to do is drive and shoot, then drive some more and shoot some more.
I wish somebody made a +++++++++PPPPPPPPPPP+++++++++++ round.[/quote]
is a 45-70 derringer close enough?[/quote]

Yours??[/quote]
I wish. never fired 1 but I’d give it a go. saw 1 at a gun show and they wouldn’t go lower than $600. I have fired a 45-70 revolver and it is a lot of gun.
oh yeah. a lot of the 45-70 derringers are .410/45LC on the bottom barrel.
one site lists recoil factor at 70.69 ft-lb

That thing cant be accurate any further than about 3 ft. Which I guess a derringer really isn’t supposed to be. I mean with the length of the shell it is basically coming straight out the end of the casing with hardly no barrel to spin it.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That thing cant be accurate any further than about 3 ft. Which I guess a derringer really isn’t supposed to be. I mean with the length of the shell it is basically coming straight out the end of the casing with hardly no barrel to spin it.[/quote]
yeah, but in a most cases you’re up close and personal when you have to use it.

There’s nothing wrong with a 22, but for the same price you can get a shitload more use out of a firearm like a compact 9mm. Packs enough to do the job under your pillow, fun to shoot and make some noise, and if you look around you can get ammo packs under $15. You can get the 22 and be happy with it, but you’ll want something bigger in 90 days


The Maadi-Griffin .50 BMG handgun

I’m not sure where I’m going with this, but.

I was out of town this weekend and had some free time, so I gave SIG another chance at that same range with my original bad SIG experience. Tried a P229 they had in .40 S&W. It wasn’t the right gun for me, but it changed my opinion of SIG. I couldn’t seem to choke up on it enough to feel comfortable, and it just felt a bit small for me. They had a newer P220, and that felt pretty nice.

Then, when I drove back into town, it turns out the fairgrounds was having a gun and knife show. So I stopped by for a look-see. I finally found someone selling HK45s. Mostly, I just wanted to see how they felt, since I’ve held (and shot) the USP, and held the P30 and P2000. That was a nice gun; I was very tempted. The HK45c didn’t fit me quite as well, but I’m going to have to take another look in the future.

On the other hand, I had a lot of trouble finding any P220s. Lots of 226s, 229s, 239s, 1911s, but didn’t see any 220s (outside of the range/shop I went to). I think they were selling it for around 850.

In the end, I think I’m mostly just confused. I don’t really have a need other than wanting something I can enjoy shooting, and to just generally work on pistol marksmanship. I’m not really looking for home defense (but that would be a bonus), concealed carry (again, would be nice), hunting, or any other reason. Since I don’t have a real purpose, that makes the choice that much harder.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m not sure where I’m going with this, but.

I was out of town this weekend and had some free time, so I gave SIG another chance at that same range with my original bad SIG experience. Tried a P229 they had in .40 S&W. It wasn’t the right gun for me, but it changed my opinion of SIG. I couldn’t seem to choke up on it enough to feel comfortable, and it just felt a bit small for me. They had a newer P220, and that felt pretty nice.

Then, when I drove back into town, it turns out the fairgrounds was having a gun and knife show. So I stopped by for a look-see. I finally found someone selling HK45s. Mostly, I just wanted to see how they felt, since I’ve held (and shot) the USP, and held the P30 and P2000. That was a nice gun; I was very tempted. The HK45c didn’t fit me quite as well, but I’m going to have to take another look in the future.

On the other hand, I had a lot of trouble finding any P220s. Lots of 226s, 229s, 239s, 1911s, but didn’t see any 220s (outside of the range/shop I went to). I think they were selling it for around 850.

In the end, I think I’m mostly just confused. I don’t really have a need other than wanting something I can enjoy shooting, and to just generally work on pistol marksmanship. I’m not really looking for home defense (but that would be a bonus), concealed carry (again, would be nice), hunting, or any other reason. Since I don’t have a real purpose, that makes the choice that much harder.[/quote]

From what you describe a 9mm in a gun that is comfortable in your hand, or even a .38special revolver if you like that, would be ideal for you.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
From what you describe a 9mm in a gun that is comfortable in your hand, or even a .38special revolver if you like that, would be ideal for you.[/quote]

Why do you say that? Because it’s a real caliber with some real recoil that would work for home defense and concealed carry, but cheaper as far as ammo?

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
From what you describe a 9mm in a gun that is comfortable in your hand, or even a .38special revolver if you like that, would be ideal for you.[/quote]

Why do you say that? Because it’s a real caliber with some real recoil that would work for home defense and concealed carry, but cheaper as far as ammo?[/quote]

Exactly. You answered your question for me. Great general purpose gun that wont break the bank on ammo, some recoil but very manageable and typically the grips on guns with double stacked mags fit people’s hands much better than those in 45’s. .380 ACP would be a possibility I guess but I have only shot the sub-compact versions of that caliber which I don’t care for.

.380 ACP ammo is expensive and .38 special isn’t cheap either.

9mm ammo is coming down in price and I’m hoping you will start seeing it between $10 and $15 a box regularly. If you typically pay $100/month for cable, that will generally allow you to shoot ~100 rounds per week. Most people with guns won’t even shoot this much.

Get a Glock, M&P, or XD. You really can’t go wrong with one of these.

[quote]theuofh wrote:
.380 ACP ammo is expensive and .38 special isn’t cheap either.

9mm ammo is coming down in price and I’m hoping you will start seeing it between $10 and $15 a box regularly. If you typically pay $100/month for cable, that will generally allow you to shoot ~100 rounds per week. Most people with guns won’t even shoot this much.

Get a Glock, M&P, or XD. You really can’t go wrong with one of these.

[/quote]

My personal preference is the XD. Love the trigger. Love the grip on the M&P but the trigger is awful. Glock somewhere in the middle on both. But like he said, cant go wrong.

yet another vote for the Ruger Mark III.

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
yet another vote for the Ruger Mark III. [/quote]

Welcome back.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]theuofh wrote:
.380 ACP ammo is expensive and .38 special isn’t cheap either.

9mm ammo is coming down in price and I’m hoping you will start seeing it between $10 and $15 a box regularly. If you typically pay $100/month for cable, that will generally allow you to shoot ~100 rounds per week. Most people with guns won’t even shoot this much.

Get a Glock, M&P, or XD. You really can’t go wrong with one of these.

[/quote]

My personal preference is the XD. Love the trigger. Love the grip on the M&P but the trigger is awful. Glock somewhere in the middle on both. But like he said, cant go wrong.[/quote]

I’ve shot an XD twice, and didn’t care for it either time. Unfortunately, I can’t even say why I didn’t like it.

I shot a Glock 21 a month or so ago, and liked it more than I expected.

Didn’t really like:
Springfield XD in 9mm (shot this on two different occasions)

Kinda liked:
Makarov… in makarov (9x18)
SIG P229 in .40
A huge Taurus revolver in .38 special

Actually liked:
H&K USP Tactical in .45
Glock 21 in .45

As far as guns I’ve held and liked (besides the ones above):
HK45, H&K P30, Walther PPQ, SIG P220

I have an airsoft USP, and I got used to the size and feel of that, which is really why I’m biased toward H&K right now.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
yet another vote for the Ruger Mark III. [/quote]

Welcome back.[/quote]

I was laying low.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
As to whether a 22 is a useful training tool:

Certainly, in an ideal world, we would train with the same caliber firearms using the same full-powered ammunition as we expect to use when we fight or hunt.

It is not an ideal world. Every Winchester Silvertip, Speer Gold Dot and Hornady TAP round that we fire downrange at a piece of paper is one less that we have at our disposal when we need it. Ammunition is expensive, and it is scarce. But our skills will degrade if we don’t hone them with constant practice. If you are magnificently wealthy, or have procured a reliable source of cheap full-powered ammunition, or if you are a competent handloader, then perhaps you don’t need to be so frugal. But for the rest of us, blasting away with full-powered ammo is the equivalent of turning money into noise.

It’s generally acknowledged that dry-fire practice on a daily basis with your carry handgun is the best way to keep up your skills. Draw and snap. Draw and snap. But we tend to get bored and lazy. It’s not “real” so we don’t take it as seriously as we should. How much better if we were able to draw and BANG! instead? A .22 pistol that is identical to your carry weapon will allow you to practice with immediate feedback of your strengths and weaknesses, letting you maintain familiarity with the weapon, for only a few dollars per day of rigorous practice.

The next best thing, of course, is an airsoft pistol that is identical to your weapon. The best things about this are that you may practice indoors, and with suitable eye protection even train force-on-force with a similarly-armed opponent. That will give you an immediate and sometimes painful reminder of what you might need to improve on in your technique.

Don’t dismiss the little .22. Better to shoot it often than to shoot your “real” weapon only seldom.

[/quote]

These are good points, but the hobby is expensive no matter how you break it down. The ammo shortage is waning and getting cheaper so that aspect is getting better. It’s no doubt that shooting is a perishable skill. Dry firing is great practice, but you do have to pretend it’s live fire for it to be effective, but you can do it any time and it definitely helps especially with trigger control.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]theuofh wrote:
.380 ACP ammo is expensive and .38 special isn’t cheap either.

9mm ammo is coming down in price and I’m hoping you will start seeing it between $10 and $15 a box regularly. If you typically pay $100/month for cable, that will generally allow you to shoot ~100 rounds per week. Most people with guns won’t even shoot this much.

Get a Glock, M&P, or XD. You really can’t go wrong with one of these.

[/quote]

My personal preference is the XD. Love the trigger. Love the grip on the M&P but the trigger is awful. Glock somewhere in the middle on both. But like he said, cant go wrong.[/quote]

I got a Ruger SR9c and I love it. The XD and the M&P have a better ergonomic design and a really balanced weight but they are not more accurate that the SR9c and the trigger is serviceable a little spongy but a nice crisp break.
All the M&P’s I have played with had really nice triggers. The only thing that really swayed me was that after reading several reviews and comparisons, the M&P didn’t group as well as the XD or the SR9.
I really liked the XD, but I did not like it $200 more than the SR9. $50 maybe, but $200, no.
It’s all in what you like, there aren’t really wrong answers, unless you are picking the hi-point. That’s a wrong answer.