[quote]tom63 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]tom63 wrote:
One question? Why is it overwhelmingly boys who are molested ? [/quote]
Because after the II Vatican council they started allowing opening gay men to enter the seminaries.[/quote]
Well that was a big mistake .[/quote]
Yeah very much so; however, the Church has put in place policy that temporarily disallows open homosexuals to enter the seminary.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< A New York Times investigation over the past year has found widespread problems in the more than 2,000 state-run homes. >>>[/quote]Finding widespread perversion and cover up in “the state”, especially this post Christian autonomous state, is not in any way shocking. Finding it in the “one true holy and apostolic church” which is said to be the bride of Christ should be shocking if that’s what one believes she is.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< A New York Times investigation over the past year has found widespread problems in the more than 2,000 state-run homes. >>>[/quote]Finding widespread perversion and cover up in “the state”, especially this post Christian autonomous state, is not in any way shocking. Finding it in the “one true holy and apostolic church” which is said to be the bride of Christ should be shocking if that’s what one believes she is.
[/quote]
It’s shocking, but not surprising since you know…we’re sinners. Maybe you should look up the theological doctrine about what makes up the body of Christ.
Here we go again…another big story…this time it’s Round 2 for the northwest Jesuits.
Less than 3 weeks after the Philadelphia news. I wonder how many billions of dollars in sheeples donation money have gone to these settlements. Not that I’m begrudging the victims one penny. I just don’t think they had this in mind when the plate was passed.
JESUITS SETTLE NW ABUSE CLAIMS $166 MILLION
By DONNA GORDON BLANKINSHIP, AP Sat Mar 26, 4:53 am ET
SEATTLE Clarita Vargas was sent to an Indian boarding school some four decades ago to study her ABCs and learn to blend in with majority culture. She says she instead learned a nightmarish lesson â?? that children sometimes have no one to protect them from pedophiles.
On Friday, the 51-year-old had her ‘day of reckoning and justice,’ when an order of Jesuit priests agreed to pay $166.1 million to hundreds of Native Americans and Alaskan Natives who were abused at its schools around the Pacific Northwest.
The settlement with victims like Vargas is one of the largest in the Catholic church’s sweeping sex abuse scandal.
Vargas alleges she and her two sisters were abused at St. Mary’s Mission and School, a former Jesuit-run boarding school on the reservation near Omak, Wash., in the late 1960s and 1970s.
She says the abuse began when they were as young as 6 or 7, and that she was told to obey the priest who was abusing her or forfeit the chance to go to heaven. ‘My spirit was wounded, and this makes it feel better.’
St. Mary’s now operates as Paschal Sherman Indian School and is run by the Colville Tribe.
The Jesuit order, called the Oregon Province of the Society of Jesus, has been accused of using its schools in remote villages and on reservations as dumping grounds for problem priests.
Attorneys representing the mostly Native American and Alaskan Native victims said the abuse added to the mistreatment already endured by these children, some of whom were forcibly removed from their homes to attend these schools.
The settlement between the more than 450 victims and the province also calls for a written apology to the victims and disclosure of documents to them, including their medical records.
The Jesuit order ran village and reservation schools in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Alaska. The claims are from victims who were students at schools in all five states.
The Very Rev. Patrick Lee, speaking for the Oregon Province, said the organization would not comment on the settlement announcement because of its ongoing bankruptcy proceedings, ‘as well as out of respect for the judicial process and all involved.’
He said the province hopes to conclude the bankruptcy process as quickly as possible.
The province previously settled another 200 claims. Then it filed for bankruptcy in 2009, claiming the payments depleted its treasury.
An issue that surfaced when the bankruptcy proceedings got under way was the relationship between the province and other Jesuit properties, such as Gonzaga University. Attorneys for the victims initially argued the province was wealthy because it controls and owns Gonzaga, along with Gonzaga Preparatory School, Seattle University and other schools and properties.
Both Gonzaga and the Jesuit order maintain they are separate entities, and victims’ attorneys did not pursue the issue during bankruptcy negotiations. Neither Gonzaga nor the other schools are contributing to the settlement announced Friday.
California attorney John Manly, who represented some of the abuse victims, contends the Jesuits knowingly put molesters in a position to abuse children. ‘It wasn’t an accident. The evidence showed they did it on purpose and it was rape,’ Manly said.
He added he was certain not all the victims have come forward, and he believes the pattern of abuse among Catholic priests continues.
Both the order and its insurers are paying into the settlement. About $6 million of the settlement is being set aside for future claims.
Attorney Blaine Tamaki said the priest who molested Vargas and about 100 other children has not been charged with a crime because the statute of limitations in Washington state is so restrictive. A bill before the state’s 2011 Legislature would remove that statute of limitations.
The settlement is believed to be the Catholic Church’s third-largest in the sex abuse cases, behind the Los Angeles Diocese, which agreed to pay $660 million to 508 victims, and the San Diego Diocese, which agreed to pay $198 million to 144 victims, according to the website BishopAccountability.org
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< A New York Times investigation over the past year has found widespread problems in the more than 2,000 state-run homes. >>>[/quote]Finding widespread perversion and cover up in “the state”, especially this post Christian autonomous state, is not in any way shocking. Finding it in the “one true holy and apostolic church” which is said to be the bride of Christ should be shocking if that’s what one believes she is.
[/quote]
It’s shocking, but not surprising since you know…we’re sinners. Maybe you should look up the theological doctrine about what makes up the body of Christ.[/quote]What if it turns out that this is a loooong standing systematic worldwide coverup of hellacious proportions. You don’t find allowing openly homosexual candidates into seminary as evidence of anything? You say that as if people are supposed to say “Oh, that’s why” and just go about their day.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< A New York Times investigation over the past year has found widespread problems in the more than 2,000 state-run homes. >>>[/quote]Finding widespread perversion and cover up in “the state”, especially this post Christian autonomous state, is not in any way shocking. Finding it in the “one true holy and apostolic church” which is said to be the bride of Christ should be shocking if that’s what one believes she is.
[/quote]
It’s shocking, but not surprising since you know…we’re sinners. Maybe you should look up the theological doctrine about what makes up the body of Christ.[/quote]What if it turns out that this is a loooong standing systematic worldwide coverup of hellacious proportions. You don’t find allowing openly homosexual candidates into seminary as evidence of anything? You say that as if people are supposed to say “Oh, that’s why” and just go about their day.
[/quote]
Then let it be so.I’ve already said let those who are guilty be charged, but don’t expect me to presume that they are all guilty, or try to move me from the position that they are innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of doubt. So far there is no evidence and I don’t deal in what ifs.
And all this shows us is that the prophets were right to warn us about such satanic ideologies as liberalism (which came along with acceptance of homosexuality, contraception, &c. when the Church clearly teaches against acceptance of those) entering through clergy who instead of loving their mother, hate her.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
sheeples
[/quote]
Ad hominem.
[quote]
Then let it be so.I’ve already said let those who are guilty be charged, but don’t expect me to presume that they are all guilty, or try to move me from the position that they are innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of doubt. So far there is no evidence and I don’t deal in what ifs.
And all this shows us is that the prophets were right to warn us about such satanic ideologies as liberalism (which came along with acceptance of homosexuality, contraception, &c. when the Church clearly teaches against acceptance of those) entering through clergy who instead of loving their mother, hate her.[/quote]
I agree with you.
I will not condemn every priest for a few actions. Just like I will not condemn all teachers, police, boyscout leaders, ministers, rabbis, and doctors for a few evil ones.
The situation is sad and breaks my heart. Of course, the devil will attack the priest. No priest. No Eucharist.
I know of one priest that was accused and it was on the front page. There was a small paragraph in the middle of the paper when he was found innocent. My favorite priest, Father Corapi is under attack. Not anything that involves children. I will believe he is innocent unless there is proof. He is a popular priest who has saved many souls. Interesting how the attack against him started on Ash Wednesday.
We have had 3 different priest at my parish while my children were growing up. I would trust my children alone with any of those priest. But I would never leave them alone with many of their teachers.
I know many people including myself that have been sexual abused but none of the pedophiles were priest. They were family members, teachers, neighbors, boyscout leaders and coaches. Pretty sad world.
[quote]cvb wrote:
Found some new articles, people! I know you hate the Catholic Church, and everything it says is wrong, blah, blah, blah. But, I don’t go down without a fight!
Let’s read some articles shall we!
The Myth of the Pedophile Priest: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0534.html
Catholic Church is among the ‘safest places’ for children: Bishop: Catholic Church among 'safest places' for children
Recent books I have read:
Double Standard: Abuse Scandals and the Attack on the Catholic Church: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1453730699/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=ednpejdjcd-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=1453730699&adid=1KN1F8T3Y7EKFZWSH5PG
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:Let’s read some articles shall we!
The Myth of the Pedophile Priest: www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0534.html[/quote]I’ll be gracious and not comment on this one for now. It was written 9 years ago after all[quote]Brother Chris wrote:Catholic Church is among the ‘safest places’ for children: Bishop: Catholic Church among 'safest places' for children Bishop Joseph N. Perry at St. John Cantius Parish said: “<<< In every crate of apples you will find a couple bruised ones; even a couple rotten ones. But that does not mean the whole crate is bad. We are a Church of sinners and saints and this mix the outside world does not understand. >>>” Hey, there’s that visible and invisible church again. =] [quote]Brother Chris wrote:Recent books I have read:
Double Standard: Abuse Scandals and the Attack on the Catholic Church: www.amazon.com/dp/1453730699/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=ednpejdjcd-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=1453730699&adid=1KN1F8T3Y7EKFZWSH5PG[/quote]It’ll all come out in the wash, but yes, the self declared “one true most holy and apostolic church” will be held to a higher standard than everybody else.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:Let’s read some articles shall we!
The Myth of the Pedophile Priest: www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0534.html[/quote]I’ll be gracious and not comment on this one for now. It was written 9 years ago after all[quote]Brother Chris wrote:Catholic Church is among the ‘safest places’ for children: Bishop: Catholic Church among 'safest places' for children Bishop Joseph N. Perry at St. John Cantius Parish said: “<<< In every crate of apples you will find a couple bruised ones; even a couple rotten ones. But that does not mean the whole crate is bad. We are a Church of sinners and saints and this mix the outside world does not understand. >>>” Hey, there’s that visible and invisible church again. =] [quote]Brother Chris wrote:Recent books I have read:
Double Standard: Abuse Scandals and the Attack on the Catholic Church: www.amazon.com/dp/1453730699/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=ednpejdjcd-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=1453730699&adid=1KN1F8T3Y7EKFZWSH5PG[/quote]It’ll all come out in the wash, but yes, the self declared “one true most holy and apostolic church” will be held to a higher standard than everybody else.
[/quote]
Gotta read the book. And, no there is not a visible and an invisible Church, there is only one Church.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Wow, I see who the real Christians are, and I just see those who are Protestants, Protestants against Christ and his Bride. Defectors and liberals all of you. And, Tirib I knew you couldn’t resist throwing your stone, I guess you have stopped sinning, now? Going to go stand next to Mary and in the sinless section, are you?
Is the hurting of an innocent child okay? No, is it ever okay? No, should Catholics accept it? No, ever? Never!
If you look at the history of the world, the Catholic Church has done nothing the world has not done, when children were abused, it was covered up and hidden. Most of the world does this, no one put it into the front page. Now, it has came about, it has come public, WHICH IS GOOD! As, the Holy Father, B16, has done made it policy and Canon law, that if child abuse is found, superiors are to report it TO THE POLICE. However, studies still show that the Catholic Church out of ALL religions, even yours Tirib, and yours Sweet Revenge, has the lowest percent of abuses and pedophiles.
Is that an excuse or an argument for priests being pedophiles and being around children, no. Do we have bad people in our institute, just like the rest of them? Yes, you want to take down the Catholic Church. Go ahead, take our money, take our Churches, sue us, that is fine. I don’t blame you, I don’t care for and tolerate those that hurt others, either. I tell you what though, they Catholic Church ain’t going no where, and to pretend that all Priests are like this, then you’re just plain blind and dumb. Go somewhere else and spill your drivel.
And, as well, we’re the only institution in the world that has the moral code (not that the individual members may follow it, but we have it) to protect the world’s dignity and freedom, and we’re about the only institution that at the end of the day can be looked at for guidance in matters of conservatism and morals. Who helped prosecute the Nazi’s? Who gave Europe and most of the West their laws in which they are not destroying?
Oh @ Sweet Revenge, the reason why there were no Catholics on Wednesday, is because it was Ash Wednesday, not that we’re hiding. Trust me, we’re not scared of scandal and we’re definitely not scared of you, we’ve been doing this for 2000 years, and we still haven’t brought down our own Church and we’re on the inside you want a pick and hammer and go at it from the outside, give it a try!
Just remember SR, Our first loyalty is to the Lord, not a forum. And, just in case you don’t know what Ash Wednesday is, it’s when we humble ourselves, take upon our foreheads an ashen cross to show the world WE ARE SINNERS and without the mercy of the Lord there is NO salvation. And we’re told and tell ourselves, “Remember that you are dust, and unto dust you shall return” (in Latin for myself).
So, please go ahead and help the Catholic Church clean up her mess, embarrass us, do the work of G-d, it will only help us purify our congregation and get the pedophile priests that the baptized faithful despise away from the children.
But, please…don’t act like you’re going to take us down, do not attack the Pope, and do not make fallacious arguments. In the end it’ll only make you feel small and silly for saying such horse shit.
And, remember we knew we were sinners and needed mercy before you told us. ;)[/quote]
And we’re to trust your Church to doctrine and interpretation of scripture? The whole premise is fallacious. Fruit of the tree my friend. Fruit of the tree.
Regarding the first article from CatholicEducation, I was compelled to check the writers numbers on Chicago with www.bishops-accountability.com. The writer said only 1 pedophile in 40 years (approx. 1950-1990). The website listed 102, with a mix of accused, sued, settled, and convicted status. The time frame was a little longer, but I did notice that there were no entries after 1994 – very commendable! (If I was reading it right). I do believe that website is probably the most accurate source out there. Perhaps the Catholic Ed writer was drawing the line between pedo and adolescence abuse.
Now, I agree that we ALL fall short of God’s glory. And I agree that we are ALL sinners. Thinking back on my short-lived Christian Science days…a person sinned once they acknowledge, perceive, talk, or do anything ‘not good and perfect’. An extreme view to be sure. But I can’t help but think that the Catholics seem to spend a awful lot of time reinforcing their sinfulness. My Catholic relatives say…‘We can do anything we want so long as we keep going to Church to get forgiven’ <giggle, giggle, wink, wink> Uh-OK then! But seriously, the Catholics make sinfulness an artform.
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]
So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]
So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]
Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]
So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]
I rarely do fall short of my own expectations.
Then again, all I demand of me is not to fuck up other people on purpose, unless they deserve it of course.
Oh my, the blessings of low expectations.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]
So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]
I rarely do fall short of my own expectations.
Then again, all I demand of me is not to fuck up other people on purpose, unless they deserve it of course.
Oh my, the blessings of low expectations.
[/quote]
You seldom fall short of ours, either, orion.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]
So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]
Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.
[/quote]
So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?
Seems a bit unfair, no?
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Wow, I see who the real Christians are, and I just see those who are Protestants, Protestants against Christ and his Bride. Defectors and liberals all of you. And, Tirib I knew you couldn’t resist throwing your stone, I guess you have stopped sinning, now? Going to go stand next to Mary and in the sinless section, are you?
Is the hurting of an innocent child okay? No, is it ever okay? No, should Catholics accept it? No, ever? Never!
If you look at the history of the world, the Catholic Church has done nothing the world has not done, when children were abused, it was covered up and hidden. Most of the world does this, no one put it into the front page. Now, it has came about, it has come public, WHICH IS GOOD! As, the Holy Father, B16, has done made it policy and Canon law, that if child abuse is found, superiors are to report it TO THE POLICE. However, studies still show that the Catholic Church out of ALL religions, even yours Tirib, and yours Sweet Revenge, has the lowest percent of abuses and pedophiles.
Is that an excuse or an argument for priests being pedophiles and being around children, no. Do we have bad people in our institute, just like the rest of them? Yes, you want to take down the Catholic Church. Go ahead, take our money, take our Churches, sue us, that is fine. I don’t blame you, I don’t care for and tolerate those that hurt others, either. I tell you what though, they Catholic Church ain’t going no where, and to pretend that all Priests are like this, then you’re just plain blind and dumb. Go somewhere else and spill your drivel.
And, as well, we’re the only institution in the world that has the moral code (not that the individual members may follow it, but we have it) to protect the world’s dignity and freedom, and we’re about the only institution that at the end of the day can be looked at for guidance in matters of conservatism and morals. Who helped prosecute the Nazi’s? Who gave Europe and most of the West their laws in which they are not destroying?
Oh @ Sweet Revenge, the reason why there were no Catholics on Wednesday, is because it was Ash Wednesday, not that we’re hiding. Trust me, we’re not scared of scandal and we’re definitely not scared of you, we’ve been doing this for 2000 years, and we still haven’t brought down our own Church and we’re on the inside you want a pick and hammer and go at it from the outside, give it a try!
Just remember SR, Our first loyalty is to the Lord, not a forum. And, just in case you don’t know what Ash Wednesday is, it’s when we humble ourselves, take upon our foreheads an ashen cross to show the world WE ARE SINNERS and without the mercy of the Lord there is NO salvation. And we’re told and tell ourselves, “Remember that you are dust, and unto dust you shall return” (in Latin for myself).
So, please go ahead and help the Catholic Church clean up her mess, embarrass us, do the work of G-d, it will only help us purify our congregation and get the pedophile priests that the baptized faithful despise away from the children.
But, please…don’t act like you’re going to take us down, do not attack the Pope, and do not make fallacious arguments. In the end it’ll only make you feel small and silly for saying such horse shit.
And, remember we knew we were sinners and needed mercy before you told us. ;)[/quote]
And we’re to trust your Church to doctrine and interpretation of scripture? The whole premise is fallacious. Fruit of the tree my friend. Fruit of the tree. [/quote]
Yes. I’m sorry, but unless you can prove to me you understand Catholic theology on the reason for the spotlessness of the Bride of Christ, I really don’t have time to discuss this because you’ll just give straw men, and I need to help with the Stations of the Cross and my fish fry soon. So, we’ll have to post pone my teaching on the spotlessness of the Bride of Christ.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]
So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]
Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.
[/quote]
Oh the quotes I could pull out about men that are pleased with themselves, but I digress. Time for Fish FRY!