21 Phily Priests Suspended

Look…whether it’s a priest or a teacher or a cub scout leader…this shit should NOT be happening! And don’t blame the pedophiles! That’s what a pedophile does! Blame the parents! They should watch their kids. Or remove their kids. And when they can’t…they should teach their kids to watch out for themselves and not take this from anyone. I gotta believe we, as a society, are getting better at preventing this but the news reports keep coming.

Give kids permission to have a backbone and resist authority figures when it comes to this.

Unrelated but true story: I turned 18 the beginning of my senior year in high school. As a legal adult, I was able to sign myself in and out of school, and write myself late notes. So I missed some schools days doing all kinds of stuff…looking at colleges, etc.

So in the Spring, I’m in school and the Dean of Students, who was a real corrections officer-type of jerk, comes up to me and says he’s got to talk to me. So, I go see him and he says that I might not graduate because I have so many missed days. I looked at him and laughed and reminded him that I was an honor student and he had bigger problems…students smoking pot in the rest rooms, etc. And that was the end of it.

A few years later, I’m home from college reading the town paper. The former-Dean of Students lost his job because of reports of inappropriate disciplinary actions taken against some boys. Apparently, he made them pull their pants down and actually spanked them in his office. No shit!! My question is…why the fuck did these students do it??? Are you fucking kidding me? The guy was a clown!! Even if he wasn’t a clown…get the fuck outta there!

I guess there will always be perpetrators if people will be victims. Sometimes you can’t see it coming, but you can see these guys!

[quote]miloofcroton wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Yeah, because your ilk has never done anything like that… >>>[/quote][quote]Tiribulus wrote:
<<< After all every church is going to have horrifically bad specimens including mine so I thought it unfair to beat up on the vatican on that score when there was an endless storehouse of other areas that testified against her already.

However, I’m beginning to think that we haven’t heard the half of this. More and more and more. All over the world and the same exact script. >>>[/quote]Of course other churches have examples of detestable debauchery. Like I keep saying Pat. You do not hear when I speak. Could you please find some where high level church officials in an orthodox actually Christian denomination reassigned known perverts in a systematic and pervasive campaign of coverup for decades like Rome has. Including the present Pope? I’m not talkin about “United_____________” liberal houses of idolatry. I guarantee you my church and any of the communions we associate with would instantly and decisively deal with ANY credible revelation of this nature. Police involvement before the end of the day.

[/quote]

Uh…you do know that there are no “high level church officials” who covered this up? It was pretty much isolated in the diocese with Bishops covering up for their priests. The current Pope when he was Prefect did what he could with what he knew, but he never covered up anything. As well, the current Pope established that if any abuse comes to be known, both priests and bishops are required to alert the civil authorities, exempt if it is within the sacrament of reconciliation. [/quote]

Chris, have you watched the CNN video that Tiribulus posted. It implicates that the current Pope may have done far less then he could have when dealing with sex scandals in the past.
[/quote]

Yes, I have also read the documents that “came out” a few months ago, and the ones before that, and the ones that come out a couple times a year.

So, far the evidence shows that the current Pope knew about some of the cases (the ones that were actually reported to him) and attempted to do everything he could within the laws he was required to follow (he wasn’t the Pope at the time, he was the Prefect of faith and morals), to remove those guilty of charges (but that requires a trial and the local bishop is judge, as well as laws that the priest would have to break*). However, the first line of defense against such things are the laymen and second is the the Diocese Bishops. If the Bishops protect their priests to the point that the dangerous priests are allowed to stay where they are, then not much can be done unless one goes around one’s bishop to report to higher ups. As well, some of the Bishops did do things, although not as good as they should have.

Think about it, 3000 diocese. 3000 bishops, 1 Pope with medieval level communication channels. The Bishops are given a certain amount of autonomy and are considered as judges over their diocese. Pointing to the Pope is less effective than pointing to the President because of his possible knowledge of what his judges have done.

  • I don’t have the exact year but back in the day such things weren’t reported to civil authorities as it wasn’t something to be made public no one liked it, but nevertheless not made public (not saying it was right, I’m not defending their behavior). So trials weren’t given and things were just taken care of like moving someone to another diocese or however they took care of things back in the 60’s and 70’s. Now that might be a right or wrong move, some of the priests were moved into monasteries were they were to do penance and manual labor for the rest of their lives and never have access to the outside world, especially children. And, some bishops severely screwed the pooch and transfered priests to dioceses where they had access to children. Either way, most of those bishops aren’t there now, they have died or retired.

However, if the bishops are still in office that covered these things up, I wholly expect them to have their public faculties removed and to be sentenced for the crimes they have committed, and if they are ever to be released, they should be given an option, either they can fend for themselves or they can go to a monastery where for the rest of their lives they will work and do penance for what they did. As well, anyone that is known to have these kind of tendencies should be sent to a monastery instead of just allowing them to be tempted where they can hurt someone. This goes for any kind of disorder that a priest may have.

Personal side note: Call me medieval, but I’m not one to allow evil doers (especially Catholics) to go without just punishment (I hold those who know better to a higher standard). If it was allowed, I’d redo the prison systems so that all criminals were to do manual labor for their injustices.

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look…whether it’s a priest or a teacher or a cub scout leader…this shit should NOT be happening! And don’t blame the pedophiles![/quote]

I agree and disagree at the same time, I agree that it shouldn’t happen. I wholly place blame on the pedophiles, just because you have a disorder (we all have disorders) doesn’t mean we’re free to do what we want. We should have control over our appetites. But, I digress.

Chris, I would reconsider much of what you said in the long post above. You are going to be impaled by these guys. I don’t think I have the heart to participate. You have no idea how much simpler my life was before I met you it that’s what this is. And. Disorder? God help this boy.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look…whether it’s a priest or a teacher or a cub scout leader…this shit should NOT be happening! And don’t blame the pedophiles![/quote]

I agree and disagree at the same time, I agree that it shouldn’t happen. I wholly place blame on the pedophiles, just because you have a disorder (we all have disorders) doesn’t mean we’re free to do what we want. We should have control over our appetites. But, I digress.[/quote]

Agreed. OF COURSE blame the pedophiles.

Blame people who cover it up too, but really most of it lands on the guy that actually committed rape.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look…whether it’s a priest or a teacher or a cub scout leader…this shit should NOT be happening! And don’t blame the pedophiles![/quote]

I agree and disagree at the same time, I agree that it shouldn’t happen. I wholly place blame on the pedophiles, just because you have a disorder (we all have disorders) doesn’t mean we’re free to do what we want. We should have control over our appetites. But, I digress.[/quote]

Agreed. OF COURSE blame the pedophiles.

Blame people who cover it up too, but really most of it lands on the guy that actually committed rape.[/quote]

Bingo.

I would still advocate prevention by empowering kids and parents more.
Kids and parents should definately be more responsible.

If we are blaming a pedophile, a drug dealer, or other bad influence, it seems that were are one transaction too short, so to speak. Much better to have the capacity and wherewithall to see and avoid the bad guys.

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look…whether it’s a priest or a teacher or a cub scout leader…this shit should NOT be happening! And don’t blame the pedophiles! That’s what a pedophile does! Blame the parents! They should watch their kids. Or remove their kids. And when they can’t…they should teach their kids to watch out for themselves and not take this from anyone. I gotta believe we, as a society, are getting better at preventing this but the news reports keep coming.

Give kids permission to have a backbone and resist authority figures when it comes to this.

Unrelated but true story: I turned 18 the beginning of my senior year in high school. As a legal adult, I was able to sign myself in and out of school, and write myself late notes. So I missed some schools days doing all kinds of stuff…looking at colleges, etc.

So in the Spring, I’m in school and the Dean of Students, who was a real corrections officer-type of jerk, comes up to me and says he’s got to talk to me. So, I go see him and he says that I might not graduate because I have so many missed days. I looked at him and laughed and reminded him that I was an honor student and he had bigger problems…students smoking pot in the rest rooms, etc. And that was the end of it.

A few years later, I’m home from college reading the town paper. The former-Dean of Students lost his job because of reports of inappropriate disciplinary actions taken against some boys. Apparently, he made them pull their pants down and actually spanked them in his office. No shit!! My question is…why the fuck did these students do it??? Are you fucking kidding me? The guy was a clown!! Even if he wasn’t a clown…get the fuck outta there!

I guess there will always be perpetrators if people will be victims. Sometimes you can’t see it coming, but you can see these guys![/quote]

I agree. Anybody who hurts a child needs to be dragged behind a pickup truck on a rocky road it does not matter who it is.
As far as the media at large, well they love to expose anything the Catholics do wrong.

First though, we don’t know if these guys actually did anything. How quick people are to judge… Though there has been a precedent set, it seems enabling, but the truth is not all claims are credible. It’s big news when the claims are made, it’s very quite, back page stuff when it turns out the be false. Like the Belgium church raid, found nothing declared illegal, no news, didn’t hear a peep out of the media.
Also what not often reported, but I did find on CNN is that all the law suites against the church stem from a single lawyer, Jeff Anderson. He is a one man wrecking crew when it comes to this stuff and he is right in the middle of the Philly case too. He hates us Catholics probably slightly less than Tirib, so he does as much damage as he can. The media buys everything he sells hook, line and sinker. Don’t believe me? Look it up, every case in the US he has brought up, credible or not, super old or not.
There is a motivation for money because of the church’s deep pockets and huge awarded pay outs, and Mr. Anderson has gotten very rich off of it.

Those who received the payouts deserved every penny and those who did the crimes deserve everything they get.

Hey if you want to hate the Church, God, Christians in general, all religious, go nuts. But if you have any desire to be fair then look at all the facts. There’s 1.2 billion Catholics in the world administered by millions of priests most of which have never done anything wrong. The percentage is very small in compared with the larger picture.
Every hurt child is deplorable and sick and every perpetrator deserves great pain, most of us are a-ok.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Chris, I would reconsider much of what you said in the long post above. You are going to be impaled by these guys. I don’t think I have the heart to participate. You have no idea how much simpler my life was before I met you it that’s what this is. And. Disorder? God help this boy.[/quote]

If your life becomes more complicated because of your participation on a forum, you need to check yourself, bud.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Yeah, because your ilk has never done anything like that… >>>[/quote][quote]Tiribulus wrote:
<<< After all every church is going to have horrifically bad specimens including mine so I thought it unfair to beat up on the vatican on that score when there was an endless storehouse of other areas that testified against her already.

However, I’m beginning to think that we haven’t heard the half of this. More and more and more. All over the world and the same exact script. >>>[/quote]Of course other churches have examples of detestable debauchery. Like I keep saying Pat. You do not hear when I speak. Could you please find some where high level church officials in an orthodox actually Christian denomination reassigned known perverts in a systematic and pervasive campaign of coverup for decades like Rome has. Including the present Pope? I’m not talkin about “United_____________” liberal houses of idolatry. I guarantee you my church and any of the communions we associate with would instantly and decisively deal with ANY credible revelation of this nature. Police involvement before the end of the day.

[/quote]

And your evidence? You functioning on pure hearsay. This has never been condoned and never will be. Did church officials screw up? You bet, but unless you are sinless, which your church is not, then maybe you should hold on to your stone…And there were cover ups in your church. Being that you don’t have uniform leadership, there is no high level to corrupt.
Is the fact that people have done wrong in your church make you wrong or evil?

Pat you have a positively stellar record of achievement in the fine arts of not listening and missing the point. Probably in that order. At least I hope so. I’m not even being sarcastic. For months and months I’ve been attempting to communicate with you. Said the same things numerous times, numerous different ways and you continue to accuse me of stuff I’ve run out of ways to explain.

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I would still advocate prevention by empowering kids and parents more.
Kids and parents should definately be more responsible.

If we are blaming a pedophile, a drug dealer, or other bad influence, it seems that were are one transaction too short, so to speak. Much better to have the capacity and wherewithall to see and avoid the bad guys.[/quote]

No doubt.

Just to show you something a little shocking:

A New York Times investigation over the past year has found widespread problems in the more than 2,000 state-run homes. In hundreds of cases reviewed by The Times, employees who sexually abused, beat or taunted residents were rarely fired, even after repeated offenses, and in many cases, were simply transferred to other group homes run by the state.

And, despite a state law requiring that incidents in which a crime may have been committed be reported to law enforcement, such referrals are rare: State records show that of some 13,000 allegations of abuse in 2009 within state-operated and licensed homes, fewer than 5 percent were referred to law enforcement. The hundreds of files examined by The Times contained shocking examples of abuse of residents with conditions like Down syndrome, autism and cerebral palsy.

From: For the Developmentally Disabled, Harm in Safe Havens - The New York Times

I got the link from: http://blog.archny.org/?p=1127

That is if you’re interested.

As I have always said, I’ll be glad to be the first to throw my rope over the high oak tree for the anyone that hurts a child like they have, bring them one, bring them all. I have no sympathy for those that hurt the innocent, and especially those in positions of authority. The moral outrage when I hear of someone hurting a child is beyond words. Lord have mercy on their souls.

One question? Why is it overwhelmingly boys who are molested ?

[quote]tom63 wrote:
One question? Why is it overwhelmingly boys who are molested ? [/quote]

Because after the II Vatican council they started allowing opening gay men to enter the seminaries.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Pat you have a positively stellar record of achievement in the fine arts of not listening and missing the point. Probably in that order. At least I hope so. I’m not even being sarcastic. For months and months I’ve been attempting to communicate with you. Said the same things numerous times, numerous different ways and you continue to accuse me of stuff I’ve run out of ways to explain.[/quote]

Funny your the only one who has accused me of not listening.

Don’t give me any crap that you have been ‘trying to communicate’ with me. You have only tried to preach me down, nothing more. I do not believe you are interested in honest dialog, because you avoid challenges and tough question, you answer when you see an opportunity to preach.

However, I am willing to open and honest dialog, so long as you do not manage to insult me or my faith. I honestly do not think you are capable of that. But if you are and you are willing to be honest and not evasive, I will dialog with you in good faith as I have been. I will take on any topic and I will do it honestly, can you?
However, if you go on preaching to me like I am 5 years old, or to insult my faith, I will return in kind.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
One question? Why is it overwhelmingly boys who are molested ? [/quote]

Because after the II Vatican council they started allowing opening gay men to enter the seminaries.[/quote]

It gets more press? I personally don’t think it has to do with gay people serving as priests. Most gay people get consensual sexual contact. Child molestation is especially gross and people willing to do that, probably aren’t to particular about the sex of the kid. It’s just sick…

I once dated a girl who’s father was a baptist minster who was in prison for child molestation…Yes, she was a victim to. Needless to say, she did not care much for him and wanted him to rot in prison for the rest of his life…

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
One question? Why is it overwhelmingly boys who are molested ? [/quote]

Because after the II Vatican council they started allowing opening gay men to enter the seminaries.[/quote]

Well that was a big mistake .

I’m sure there have been girls molested , but I have never heard of one. I don’t think you can take the victim 's sex out of the equation . These men should be immediately defrocked and excommunicated and turned over to the authorities .

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
One question? Why is it overwhelmingly boys who are molested ? [/quote]

Because after the II Vatican council they started allowing opening gay men to enter the seminaries.[/quote]

It gets more press? I personally don’t think it has to do with gay people serving as priests. Most gay people get consensual sexual contact. Child molestation is especially gross and people willing to do that, probably aren’t to particular about the sex of the kid. It’s just sick…

I once dated a girl who’s father was a baptist minster who was in prison for child molestation…Yes, she was a victim to. Needless to say, she did not care much for him and wanted him to rot in prison for the rest of his life…
[/quote]

No, I’m not saying it was solely because of that, it came from the attitude which allowed openly homosexual men into the priesthood. I’ll try and find it, but there was an article correlating the two.