21 Phily Priests Suspended

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

The conundrum of how am I supposed to be perfect, if I can’t go to a perfect Church…lol.

82

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

Oh the quotes I could pull out about men that are pleased with themselves, but I digress. Time for Fish FRY![/quote]

Is it wrong to be pleased in a good day?

83

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.

84

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:<<< I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]Once I got a grip on my own sin and the immense cost in grace and mercy required for He who knew no sin to be made sin for me that I may become the very righteousness of God in Him? All this took care of itself. Forgiveness, received and offered, is a way of life among myself and the people I fellowship with regularly.

85

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Why did G-d allow this to happen? G-d allows such evils to happen for the greater good.[/quote]

LOL

Keep 'em coming man, this is comedy gold!

86

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

I rarely do fall short of my own expectations.

Then again, all I demand of me is not to fuck up other people on purpose, unless they deserve it of course.

Oh my, the blessings of low expectations.

[/quote]

You seldom fall short of ours, either, orion.

:wink:
[/quote]

You mean you are constantly pleasantly surprised by my posts?

:slight_smile:

87

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

I rarely do fall short of my own expectations.

Then again, all I demand of me is not to fuck up other people on purpose, unless they deserve it of course.

Oh my, the blessings of low expectations.

[/quote]

You seldom fall short of ours, either, orion.

:wink:
[/quote]

You mean you are constantly pleasantly surprised by my posts?

:-)[/quote]

Well, pleasantly entertained, if nothing else.

88

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]

But, according to your earlier statements, it seems you are willing to cut yourself more slack than you are any church. Why?

89

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

Oh the quotes I could pull out about men that are pleased with themselves, but I digress. Time for Fish FRY![/quote]

Is it wrong to be pleased in a good day?
[/quote]

Matters.

90

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]

Not only that, but thge concept of supererogation is important, i.e. to go above and beyond the moral duties that can legitimately be demanded of you.

If you accept that everyone can make moral demands when it comes to you all the time you or set the bar too high yourself you will not only never meet your and others expectations but you have also no room to do more than you are obligated to do.

If anyone ever tries to push such a system on you that is impossible to live up to, hit him with a stick, because its a trap.

91
92

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[/quote]

Ah, poppycock, he demands no such thing.

In fact, he demands nothing at all, but in fact asks not to be a complete dick and gives some illustration what “no being a complete dick” might look like.

If you go above and beyond that, more power to you, if not, a-ok too, at least you did not add too much to the general misery around us.

93

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]

Not only that, but thge concept of supererogation is important, i.e. to go above and beyond the moral duties that can legitimately be demanded of you.

If you accept that everyone can make moral demands when it comes to you all the time you or set the bar too high yourself you will not only never meet your and others expectations but you have also no room to do more than you are obligated to do.

If anyone ever tries to push such a system on you that is impossible to live up to, hit him with a stick, because its a trap.
[/quote]

Amen to that.
Ever notice that the higher performing individuals get this?
It’s along the lines of…If you want to get something done, give it to a busy person.

94

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

The conundrum of how am I supposed to be perfect, if I can’t go to a perfect Church…lol.[/quote]

Not everyone NEEDS to belong to a Church. Many people do quite well following the promptings and inspiration of Spirit within themselves and studying/practicing on their own. But, I also understand the value of fellowship with like-minded people and that’s cool. Regardless, I view Church, and any organized religion for that matter, as optional. God doesn’t necessarily need either to work His will in someone’s life.

95

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]

But, according to your earlier statements, it seems you are willing to cut yourself more slack than you are any church. Why?
[/quote]

I’m not sure how you got (or I gave) that impression, but I don’t think it’s really true for me. The qualities I’ve disliked the most about ‘Church’ has been (1) super-restrictive dogma and judgement, (2) pettiness and gossiping, and (3) biting cruelty (emotional)by the clergy. Its the last event, that really served as the last straw for me and a particular Church. The minister was truly awful to the Music Director (a friend of mine) and after a few months of emotional torture eventually fired her. The congregation was stunned because she was the beloved music director for over ten years and was very hard-working and well-liked. Indeed, about 1/3 of the Church left out of disgust, and I was one of them.

96

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Not everyone NEEDS to belong to a Church. Many people do quite well following the promptings and inspiration of Spirit within themselves and studying/practicing on their own. But, I also understand the value of fellowship with like-minded people and that’s cool. Regardless, I view Church, and any organized religion for that matter, as optional. God doesn’t necessarily need either to work His will in someone’s life. [/quote]

No, he doesn’t need it, but he uses it and he gave it to us for a reason.

97

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’m not sure how you got (or I gave) that impression, but I don’t think it’s really true for me. The qualities I’ve disliked the most about ‘Church’ has been (1) super-restrictive dogma and judgement, (2) pettiness and gossiping, and (3) biting cruelty (emotional)by the clergy. Its the last event, that really served as the last straw for me and a particular Church. The minister was truly awful to the Music Director (a friend of mine) and after a few months of emotional torture eventually fired her. The congregation was stunned because she was the beloved music director for over ten years and was very hard-working and well-liked. Indeed, about 1/3 of the Church left out of disgust, and I was one of them.[/quote]

I think M Scott Peck gives in his book People of the Lie: The Hope For Healing Human Evil a good explanation why evil people like to hang around religion and politics. It’s a long time since I read it, but it is basically because of the shield of righteousness it can give them. Very simple, really. Good book, made a strong impression on me and I still find myself returning to it. I really should read it again. Slightly off topic, sorry, carry on.

98

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]

But, according to your earlier statements, it seems you are willing to cut yourself more slack than you are any church. Why?
[/quote]

I’m not sure how you got (or I gave) that impression, but I don’t think it’s really true for me. The qualities I’ve disliked the most about ‘Church’ has been (1) super-restrictive dogma and judgement, (2) pettiness and gossiping, and (3) biting cruelty (emotional)by the clergy. Its the last event, that really served as the last straw for me and a particular Church. The minister was truly awful to the Music Director (a friend of mine) and after a few months of emotional torture eventually fired her. The congregation was stunned because she was the beloved music director for over ten years and was very hard-working and well-liked. Indeed, about 1/3 of the Church left out of disgust, and I was one of them.[/quote]

Seems to me like the only reason you’ve stated that is not hypocritical is #1, and #1 is probably not a very smart reason to leave a church, as you start to flirt with relativism, which, if you do believe in God, particularly the God of the Bible, you should know is a pretty dangerous endeavor.

As for #2 and #3, what is it about those factors, in kind, that allows you to hold yourself to a lesser standard? (I can see where orion was going with his, but I’m not sure if you fully understand the implications of these statements as regards what we are talking about here.) In short, what makes you better than them? You okay to cast that stone?

99

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

I’ve left Churches for much less than pedophilia! I believe a Church and it’s members should be held to higher standard. I’ve been unable to find one that fits the bill, which is why I’ve been flying solo for the past few years. [/quote]

So do you hold yourself to that same standard? I’m not talking about pedophilia, obviously. Do you never fall short of your own expectations? [/quote]

Every day, mostly.
But today, in particular, has been an exceptional day so I’m relatively pleased right now.

[/quote]

So, you demand more of the (human) body of your church than you do yourself?

Seems a bit unfair, no?
[/quote]

I guess I expect too much of a Church and myself.
I’m sure Orion has the better idea…lower expectations = less disappointment.[/quote]

But, according to your earlier statements, it seems you are willing to cut yourself more slack than you are any church. Why?
[/quote]

I’m not sure how you got (or I gave) that impression, but I don’t think it’s really true for me. The qualities I’ve disliked the most about ‘Church’ has been (1) super-restrictive dogma and judgement, (2) pettiness and gossiping, and (3) biting cruelty (emotional)by the clergy. Its the last event, that really served as the last straw for me and a particular Church. The minister was truly awful to the Music Director (a friend of mine) and after a few months of emotional torture eventually fired her. The congregation was stunned because she was the beloved music director for over ten years and was very hard-working and well-liked. Indeed, about 1/3 of the Church left out of disgust, and I was one of them.[/quote]

Seems to me like the only reason you’ve stated that is not hypocritical is #1, and #1 is probably not a very smart reason to leave a church, as you start to flirt with relativism, which, if you do believe in God, particularly the God of the Bible, you should know is a pretty dangerous endeavor.

As for #2 and #3, what is it about those factors, in kind, that allows you to hold yourself to a lesser standard? (I can see where orion was going with his, but I’m not sure if you fully understand the implications of these statements as regards what we are talking about here.) In short, what makes you better than them? You okay to cast that stone?
[/quote]

Are you suggesting that I should have stayed in a church I no longer respected?

100

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:<<< Are you suggesting that I should have stayed in a church I no longer respected?
[/quote]He’s suggesting you ask what within yourself brought about the loss of respect and whether it says much more about you than it does about them.