This guy is clearly completely insane. Apparently he appeared on Youtube in a wetsuit brandishing a Ruger Mini-14 and declaring ‘a holy war under the banner of the Nordic cross’ 6 hours before the attacks. And it’s not as if he suddenly suffered a complete breakdown or anything as he’s been working on his manifesto for years according to reports. I haven’t read it yet but it’s been reported that he ‘admired President Putin’ and that he had expressed many conservative sentiments, was pro-gay, was into weightlifting and first person shooter games.
Some of the terminology he uses arent new, and many non-insane people have talked about infiltration
of the western society by marxists and islamists. If I remember correctly similar thougts have been spewed
in this forum. The difference offcourse is that this motherfucker did act on behalf of he`s warped ideology.
Lets just hope this will disgust many enough that the reactionary ideas of eurosentrism, anti-marxism and islamophobi takes a set-back.
Good idea to start a thread to talk about the manifesto itself.
I spent few hours reading it this morning and I have to say I’m fascinated by this guy. He feels no fear, no remorse and his planning skills are amazing. He has managed to prepare covers for all the chemicals he bought (except one), he travelled to Prague to buy weapons from weapon dealers (although failed), etc.
I have read his planning, skipping the chemistry information because it didn’t seem that important and a little bit of his ideas on targets, weaponry, explosives, protection, etc. and this new society idea.
[quote]florelius wrote:
Some of the terminology he uses arent new, and many non-insane people have talked about infiltration
of the western society by marxists and islamists. If I remember correctly similar thougts have been spewed
in this forum.
[/quote]
True.
Are you suggesting that if they could/would, people who express similar sentiments would act in this way? Real cheap shot there. ALL conservatives here condemned this action in the strongest possible terms. Some guy who hates Jews and America but lives there expressed his sorry that this act ‘could have been laudable’ but wasn’t. Some Nazi guy from Finland bragged that the Norwegian right are ‘all talk’. Meanwhile many on the left tried to associate conservatives with this psycho to score political points. The whole thing makes me sick. Kudos to those who just expressed condolences and grief.
^^That’s what I mean by using this tragedy to score political points.
[quote]florelius wrote:
Some of the terminology he uses arent new, and many non-insane people have talked about infiltration
of the western society by marxists and islamists. If I remember correctly similar thougts have been spewed
in this forum.
[/quote]
True.
Are you suggesting that if they could/would, people who express similar sentiments would act in this way? Real cheap shot there. ALL conservatives here condemned this action in the strongest possible terms. Some guy who hates Jews and America but lives there expressed his sorry that this act ‘could have been laudable’ but wasn’t. Some Nazi guy from Finland bragged that the Norwegian right are ‘all talk’. Meanwhile many on the left tried to associate conservatives with this psycho to score political points. The whole thing makes me sick. Kudos to those who just expressed condolences and grief.
^^That’s what I mean by using this tragedy to score political points.
Jesus wept.
JOHN 11:35[/quote]
No I am not saying that all people with similar wiews are a inch away of doing this, rather the opposit.
But I dont care that you fell discusted with me scoring political points over this, because its political points taken scored from pointing out the obvious racist and fascistoid nature of the eurosentrist and islamophobic ideology.
btw: Its possible to be conservative without being a closet-fascist, but here in interwebz land many self-proclaimed conservatives are.
sexmachine here is the reason why I am so discusted with this mans ideology and the likes:
In my country and in other countrys near by mine, a new movement have risen and grown bigger and
more powerfull the last 30years. They are often referred to as the populist rightwing. The norwegian
populist right party( frp/the progress party ), have for decades now jused every ounce of reactionary
sentiments in population to gain political power and are today the second biggest party in the parliament.
When they started out, all the other party recognised theire retorics against singel-mothers and
immigrants as sexist and racist, but after having them in the political spotlight for decades the other
partys got used to them and theire retoric are being more and more accepted. I am sick of theire racisme
against muslim being called a “healthy concern” about immigration. I think its time to call a spade a spade
and call this brownshirts discuised as classical liberals out!!
This movement is gaining strenght troughout europa and some of the partys are:
Bnp. england.
sverigedemokratene. sweden.
sannfinnene. finnland.
frp and demokratene. norway.
ps. frp had nazi members in the 80`s, but have later kicked them out and are today pro-israel, but
the retorics against muslims and especially the wiew that marxist and muslims are infiltrating the society
are scary similar to the nazi retorics against jews and marxists.
[quote]florelius wrote:
sexmachine here is the reason why I am so discusted with this mans ideology and the likes:
In my country and in other countrys near by mine, a new movement have risen and grown bigger and
more powerfull the last 30years. They are often referred to as the populist rightwing. The norwegian
populist right party( frp/the progress party ), have for decades now jused every ounce of reactionary
sentiments in population to gain political power and are today the second biggest party in the parliament.
When they started out, all the other party recognised theire retorics against singel-mothers and
immigrants as sexist and racist, but after having them in the political spotlight for decades the other
partys got used to them and theire retoric are being more and more accepted. I am sick of theire racisme
against muslim being called a “healthy concern” about immigration. I think its time to call a spade a spade
and call this brownshirts discuised as classical liberals out!!
This movement is gaining strenght troughout europa and some of the partys are:
Bnp. england.
sverigedemokratene. sweden.
sannfinnene. finnland.
frp and demokratene. norway.
ps. frp had nazi members in the 80`s, but have later kicked them out and are today pro-israel, but
the retorics against muslims and especially the wiew that marxist and muslims are infiltrating the society
are scary similar to the nazi retorics against jews and marxists.
[/quote]
This isn’t the thread for this debate. I would be happy to discuss it on a thread about Islamisation of Europe/the west. I would like to discuss/hear about this guy’s motivations as this event is so unprecedented and from what I’ve read of his 1500+ page manifesto, he appears to be a huge enigma so far.
It appears he got some of his guerrilla tactics from Che Guevara’s ‘Guerrilla Warfare’. Still reading.
This Manifesto is truly off the charts. He’s got everything from a buying guide to making power-armour, to investment tips, to a QA ala Justin Bieber in Seventeen magazine alongside a pantheon of political philosophy supported by some possibly well-researched statistics.
The man is like a comic villian meets reality show/comedy. This is truly the most unreal document I’ve browsed through for sometime.
Scholastically it is unbelievably entertaining.
The Unibomber has nothing on this.
Are you suggesting that if they could/would, people who express similar sentiments would act in this way? Real cheap shot there. ALL conservatives here condemned this action in the strongest possible terms. Some guy who hates Jews and America but lives there expressed his sorry that this act ‘could have been laudable’ but wasn’t. Some Nazi guy from Finland bragged that the Norwegian right are ‘all talk’. Meanwhile many on the left tried to associate conservatives with this psycho to score political points. The whole thing makes me sick. Kudos to those who just expressed condolences and grief.
[/quote]
Maybe your shouldn’t project the american political chart on this incident at all and study the norwegian chart instead.
Are you suggesting that if they could/would, people who express similar sentiments would act in this way? Real cheap shot there. ALL conservatives here condemned this action in the strongest possible terms. Some guy who hates Jews and America but lives there expressed his sorry that this act ‘could have been laudable’ but wasn’t. Some Nazi guy from Finland bragged that the Norwegian right are ‘all talk’. Meanwhile many on the left tried to associate conservatives with this psycho to score political points. The whole thing makes me sick. Kudos to those who just expressed condolences and grief.
[/quote]
Maybe your shouldn’t project the american political chart on this incident at all and study the norwegian chart instead. [/quote]
I’ve projected nothing. I’m merely reading this nut’s manifesto in astonishment, commenting on it and responding to others’ comments.
Are you suggesting that if they could/would, people who express similar sentiments would act in this way? Real cheap shot there. ALL conservatives here condemned this action in the strongest possible terms. Some guy who hates Jews and America but lives there expressed his sorry that this act ‘could have been laudable’ but wasn’t. Some Nazi guy from Finland bragged that the Norwegian right are ‘all talk’. Meanwhile many on the left tried to associate conservatives with this psycho to score political points. The whole thing makes me sick. Kudos to those who just expressed condolences and grief.
[/quote]
Maybe your shouldn’t project the american political chart on this incident at all and study the norwegian chart instead. [/quote]
I’ve projected nothing. I’m merely reading this nut’s manifesto in astonishment, commenting on it and responding to others’ comments.[/quote]
Seems that first person shooters and media coverage are common themes from harris/klebold onwards, plus some kind of narcissistic trait that make them too easily offended.
Are you suggesting that if they could/would, people who express similar sentiments would act in this way? Real cheap shot there. ALL conservatives here condemned this action in the strongest possible terms. Some guy who hates Jews and America but lives there expressed his sorry that this act ‘could have been laudable’ but wasn’t. Some Nazi guy from Finland bragged that the Norwegian right are ‘all talk’. Meanwhile many on the left tried to associate conservatives with this psycho to score political points. The whole thing makes me sick. Kudos to those who just expressed condolences and grief.
[/quote]
Maybe your shouldn’t project the american political chart on this incident at all and study the norwegian chart instead. [/quote]
I’ve projected nothing. I’m merely reading this nut’s manifesto in astonishment, commenting on it and responding to others’ comments.[/quote]
Seems that first person shooters and media coverage are common themes from harris/klebold onwards, plus some kind of narcissistic trait that make them too easily offended.[/quote]
I agree. But it’s not just FPSers. It’s the moral degeneracy of our society. The frequency of these school shootings in the US in particular is very disturbing and indicates something seriously wrong with society. Remeber when this stuff started; Charles Whitman 1966. It’s my firm belief that rapid decline of our society began in the mid to late 60’s. That’s a different story but related in my opinion.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I agree. But it’s not just FPSers. It’s the moral degeneracy of our society. The frequency of these school shootings in the US in particular is very disturbing and indicates something seriously wrong with society. Remeber when this stuff started; Charles Whitman 1966. It’s my firm belief that rapid decline of our society began in the mid to late 60’s. That’s a different story but related in my opinion.[/quote]
No, they correlate, I have difficulties to see FPS as catalysts. Society has changed alright, one can ask though what caused this rapid decline in the mid-sixties. Why the sixties? Moral decay? Decay is a process and has been going on for a good while before becoming visible. But anyway, I personally think it is the media coverage that is the ultimate price to be achieved, as can be seen in this case.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I agree. But it’s not just FPSers. It’s the moral degeneracy of our society. The frequency of these school shootings in the US in particular is very disturbing and indicates something seriously wrong with society. Remeber when this stuff started; Charles Whitman 1966. It’s my firm belief that rapid decline of our society began in the mid to late 60’s. That’s a different story but related in my opinion.[/quote]
No, they correlate, I have difficulties to see FPS as catalysts. Society has changed alright, one can ask though what caused this rapid decline in the mid-sixties. Why the sixties? Moral decay?
[/quote]
Bingo.
Actually it’s been going on for centuries. Oswald Spengler’s ‘The Decline of The West’ is the best book I have read on the subject and I would highly recommend it. 1916 was the year that the Victorian era really came crashing down. You could argue that was really the end of Western civilisation and that everything else since was its death throes.
[quote]
But anyway, I personally think it is the media coverage that is the ultimate price to be achieved, as can be seen in this case.[/quote]
The media in a free society is just a reflection of the society itself. For example, News of the World published trash because that’s what they knew would sell. That’s what people wanted. You can’t blame the supplier entirely because he’s only responding to the demand.
I don’t believe society is degenerating. I think we are exactly the same, in essence, as we were 2000 or 3000 years ago, but now we have media and an easier access to information, material, etc.
There are more shootins because obtaining a weapon is very easy. An AK-47 is how much, 800 dollars? Not so hard to get either. What about explosives? We have now seen that it’s legal to adquire all the materials required and you just need patience and the equipment to prepare this powerful bombs by yourself, without very specific formation.
Then we have the imitation effect, provoked indirectly by media. I’m sure many people will now have ideas related to this massacre. Will they carry on? Probably not, but they got the idea. There’s a reason why media doesn’t talk about suicides anymore, because someone with issues can be pushed to do it if the idea of suicide pops in his mind.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
I don’t believe society is degenerating. I think we are exactly the same, in essence, as we were 2000 or 3000 years ago, but now we have media and an easier access to information, material, etc.
[/quote]
There is so much wrong with this I wouldn’t know where to begin. My only advice; study history.
Actually it’s been going on for centuries. Oswald Spengler’s ‘The Decline of The West’ is the best book I have read on the subject and I would highly recommend it. 1916 was the year that the Victorian era really came crashing down. You could argue that was really the end of Western civilisation and that everything else since was its death throes.
[/quote]
Actually we, the occident, today have a lesser chance of dying because of haphazard or organized violence than ever before in history, same goes for diseases, childbirth and hunger. Please expand what made the Victorian era the pinnacle of the golden era and the world that ensued a decaying one.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
I don’t believe society is degenerating. I think we are exactly the same, in essence, as we were 2000 or 3000 years ago, but now we have media and an easier access to information, material, etc.
[/quote]
There is so much wrong with this I wouldn’t know where to begin. My only advice; study history.[/quote]
“The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress.”
[quote]Edevus wrote:
I don’t believe society is degenerating. I think we are exactly the same, in essence, as we were 2000 or 3000 years ago, but now we have media and an easier access to information, material, etc.
[/quote]
There is so much wrong with this I wouldn’t know where to begin. My only advice; study history.[/quote]
“The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress.”
[/quote]
There is a lot more to morality in antiquity than brothel graffiti preserved in Pompeii from the first century. I’ve seen it myself.
Your quote from Aristotle is in reference to the decline in morality that began after the end of the Peloponnesian war and the rise of a large Greek mercenary class that held no allegience to any citystate. Fortunately ‘immorality’(much to do with ‘impiety’) began to decline when Aristotle’s pupil decided to eat Thebes as a lesson to the citystates, unite them(except Sparta) and conquer the entire known world before he was 30. Interesting chap.