[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
This:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
If I was drafting from the QBs in the league right now, I would take Johnny Football over Tannehill. [/quote]
Makes this:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I would take Tannehill over Wilson.[/quote]
even better.
[/quote]
lol
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
Wilson is overrated. As the Seahawks start to lose players on their roster to free agency it will be obvious to everyone they should have tapped the breaks before classifying him as elite. He is on par with the dude in Cincy (can’t think of his name right now) but with better mobility. Second teir QBs at best. You could plug in 20+ QBs in the league in Seattle and have the same success the past three years. They did add a great receiving TE who is a match up nightmare though. [/quote]
Says Russell Wilson is overrated.
Sings Johnny Football’s praises.
You’re just messing with us at this point, right? [/quote]
No, I am not messing with y’all. I really feel that way.
The reason I like Manziel and think he is going to be special is because of what he did in college. He was amazing. (Before anyone says anything, I know the NFL is not college.) He was just handed the football and went out there and dominated. Running, throwing he can do it all. Wilson can’t hold Manziel’s jockstrap.
I am not going to look at last year and say “well, that’s it, he is a bust” And him checking into rehab shows balls. He wasn’t forced into rehab, no one made him. He volunteered. His comments after games last year were very impressive as well. He keeps up phase 1, he will start to gain back his linemans respect. When he enters phase 2, he will have his organizations respect. When phase 3 happens, he will have the NFL’s respect. And anyone on here who is honest.
The absolutely worse case scenario is I am wrong. I have been wrong before, and I will most likely be wrong again at some point. I really don’t give a shit if I am wrong. I will not lose any sleep if I am. But, if I am not wrong it is going to be fun as shit to watch.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
The reason I like Manziel and think he is going to be special is because of what he did in college. He was amazing.
[/quote]
But how is he different than any other QB who dominated in college then went on to do nothing in the pros?
Keywords: Heisman winners, RGIII, Tebow, Troy Smith, Leinart, Jason White, Crouch, Weinke, Wuerffel, Torretta, Detmer, Ware.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
Wilson can’t hold Manziel’s jockstrap.
[/quote]
Russel Wilson is a professional athlete in 2 sports. Manziel couldn’t even win the starting QB job in Cleveland.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I have been wrong before, and I will most likely be wrong again at some point. [/quote]
I’ve given you a lot of shit in the past, and likely will again in the future. However I just want to say I respect this coming from most people, and certainly you.
You’re a good dude I’m sure.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
But how is he different than any other QB who dominated in college then went on to do nothing in the pros?
Keywords: Heisman winners, RGIII, Tebow, Troy Smith, Leinart, Jason White, Crouch, Weinke, Wuerffel, Torretta, Detmer, Ware.
[/quote]
I guess being a pretentious alcoholic is one way he’s different.
A lot of those mentioned also have the body and arm of an nfl QB, which is another difference.
Did any of those guys get to throw to a stud like Mike Evans in college? If so, I imagine they would have looked even better…
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I have been wrong before, and I will most likely be wrong again at some point. [/quote]
I’ve given you a lot of shit in the past, and likely will again in the future. However I just want to say I respect this coming from most people, and certainly you.
You’re a good dude I’m sure. [/quote]
Admitting you’re wrong is a sign of high character, but i dont understand the devotion in spite of the evidence suggesting otherwise.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I have been wrong before, and I will most likely be wrong again at some point. [/quote]
I’ve given you a lot of shit in the past, and likely will again in the future. However I just want to say I respect this coming from most people, and certainly you.
You’re a good dude I’m sure. [/quote]
Admitting you’re wrong is a sign of high character, but i dont understand the devotion in spite of the evidence suggesting otherwise. [/quote]
That’s conviction. It makes us assholes even more fun lol.
(Not saying you’re an asshole, but that I am, lol.)
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I have been wrong before, and I will most likely be wrong again at some point. [/quote]
I’ve given you a lot of shit in the past, and likely will again in the future. However I just want to say I respect this coming from most people, and certainly you.
You’re a good dude I’m sure. [/quote]
I appreciate it.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
The reason I like Manziel and think he is going to be special is because of what he did in college. He was amazing.
[/quote]
But how is he different than any other QB who dominated in college then went on to do nothing in the pros?
Keywords: Heisman winners, RGIII, Tebow, Troy Smith, Leinart, Jason White, Crouch, Weinke, Wuerffel, Torretta, Detmer, Ware.
[/quote]
Almost everyone of those QBs you posted were a product of their system or team.
I think Tebow is a terrible passer. Not eeven close to NFL caliber. The Broncos wwon a playoff game with him at QB against the Steelers. Tebow is a big, strong runner, and a highly motivated person. I think NFL teams can win with Tebow at QB.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I have been wrong before, and I will most likely be wrong again at some point. [/quote]
I’ve given you a lot of shit in the past, and likely will again in the future. However I just want to say I respect this coming from most people, and certainly you.
You’re a good dude I’m sure. [/quote]
Admitting you’re wrong is a sign of high character, but i dont understand the devotion in spite of the evidence suggesting otherwise. [/quote]
That’s conviction. It makes us assholes even more fun lol.
(Not saying you’re an asshole, but that I am, lol.)[/quote]
I have not seen any evidence that he is a bust. What evidence is there that says bust? The game he came in for Hoyer he did good and showed some signs. The Cincy start his line layed down on him and that’s not a great game to give a rookie QB his first start. A major Rival? He handled the post game perfectly.
His rookie season was not what I was expecting. I thought he was going to do much more than what he did. Obviously he was not a professional, and had outside factors affecting him. He has been working to correct both of those issues. It can only help him this year.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
But how is he different than any other QB who dominated in college then went on to do nothing in the pros?
Keywords: Heisman winners, RGIII, Tebow, Troy Smith, Leinart, Jason White, Crouch, Weinke, Wuerffel, Torretta, Detmer, Ware.
[/quote]
A lot of those mentioned also have the body and arm of an nfl QB, which is another difference.
[/quote]
This statement makes me think you really have no clue what you are talking about. I think you have said something about Manziels arm before?
A lot of things can be said about Manziel. But, what can not be said is he doesn’t have an NFL caliber arm. It is a fact he can throw every throw in a play book. This isn’t an opinion, it is a documented fact. He can make every throw in a play book. He has video of him making every throw there is from his pro day. Where he completed something like 62 of 63 passes with the last one ~60 yards in the air. I know it’s a pro day and not Sunday. He showed that he has an NFL arm and Gruden was impressed with him on his Gruden QB camp show or whatever it’s called. Manziel has an NFL arm, it is not up for debate, it has been scientifically proven and is video documented. I dare you to pull up youtube and watch his pro day and come back here and tell me which throw he can’t make.
Hold on, I will pull it up and post it. I have a feeling you will not watch it though
64 - 65
Damn!
If the defense sends a pass rusher with a broom, Manziel will burn them on every play.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Damn!
If the defense sends a pass rusher with a broom, Manziel will burn them on every play.
:p[/quote]
He made those brooms look stupid. They didn’t have a chance
[quote]mbdix wrote:
He was just handed the football and went out there and dominated. Running, throwing he can do it all. Wilson can’t hold Manziel’s jockstrap. [/quote]
Obvious trolling is obvious.
Only one of the those two QBs has done it at the pro level, and consistently at that.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
64 - 65[/quote]
You are aware that you just posted video evidence to refute your point and bolster Aggv’s? Any ball he threw over 20 yrds was a rainbow and only semi accurate. His outs were not very tight and lacked zip. He has an average NFL arm at best. Did you not watch that video, and if you did is that the only pro-day vid you have ever watched? I get the feeling you have no frame of reference for what you were looking at.
And you really think that Manziel is not a system QB. He played for Sumlin man. That’s only one rung below playing for Mike Leach in the system QB hierarchy and he still didn’t know the plays have the time and had to be bailed out by Mike Evans.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
64 - 65[/quote]
You are aware that you just posted video evidence to refute your point and bolster Aggv’s? Any ball he threw over 20 yrds was a rainbow and only semi accurate. His outs were not very tight and lacked zip. He has an average NFL arm at best. Did you not watch that video, and if you did is that the only pro-day vid you have ever watched? I get the feeling you have no frame of reference for what you were looking at.
And you really think that Manziel is not a system QB. He played for Sumlin man. That’s only one rung below playing for Mike Leach in the system QB hierarchy and he still didn’t know the plays have the time and had to be bailed out by Mike Evans. [/quote]
That’s what you took from the video? You don’t know what you are looking at. I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. I’m just saying you don’t know what you are watching. Some of those deep balls were place perfectly in stride 40 yds down the field.
After watching that video and posting “rainbows” on deep throws, that landed right in the hands of the reciever without him breaking stride?
Don’t just take my word on it. Google that shit. Every coach, every GM, every consultant, every former coach, every former player, everyone that knows anything about the QB position said the same thing. He proved he can make every throw.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
Every coach, every GM, every consultant, every former coach, every former player, everyone that knows anything about the QB position said the same thing. He proved he can make every throw.
[/quote]
Why was he drafted so late in the first round then?
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
64 - 65[/quote]
You are aware that you just posted video evidence to refute your point and bolster Aggv’s? Any ball he threw over 20 yrds was a rainbow and only semi accurate. His outs were not very tight and lacked zip. He has an average NFL arm at best. Did you not watch that video, and if you did is that the only pro-day vid you have ever watched? I get the feeling you have no frame of reference for what you were looking at.
And you really think that Manziel is not a system QB. He played for Sumlin man. That’s only one rung below playing for Mike Leach in the system QB hierarchy and he still didn’t know the plays have the time and had to be bailed out by Mike Evans. [/quote]
That’s what you took from the video? You don’t know what you are looking at. I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. I’m just saying you don’t know what you are watching. Some of those deep balls were place perfectly in stride 40 yds down the field.
After watching that video and posting “rainbows” on deep throws, that landed right in the hands of the reciever without him breaking stride?
Don’t just take my word on it. Google that shit. Every coach, every GM, every consultant, every former coach, every former player, everyone that knows anything about the QB position said the same thing. He proved he can make every throw.
[/quote]
Dude, he literally had one deep throw hit a guy in stride with no adjustment from the receiver.
And I did google it. The praise you speak of just doesn’t exist beyond people basically saying “Yeah, he did pretty good.” Couple people said he threw the deep ball “good enough”. Not really what you made it out to be. My favorite quote was basically “If you like him you thought he did good, if you didn’t, you still don’t like him. He didn’t really do anything either way.”
[quote]On the flip side, a number of evaluators pointed out that Manziel’s ball wobbled a little more than expected, and that he wasn’t fantastic throwing to his left, either from the pocket or when rolling out. Others didn’t deny the problems were there, but considered them more minimal.
Manziel completed 61 of his 64 passes, but in an environment like this, it’s more about how the ball gets there, since there isn’t coverage or a legitimate pass rush.
“He did good,” said one NFC area scout who’s evaluated him for two years. “He did struggle to the left, and the ball fluttered when he’d try and force it in. Also, we didn’t really see him drive it downfield.”
Most agreed that, overall, Manziel’s arm strength is fine. The aforementioned NFC assistant coach called it better than Blake Bortles’ and Teddy Bridgewater’s, and a half-dozen others agreed that the former Heisman Trophy winner is somewhere between average and above average (while not outstanding) in that area.
The bigger question lingering is his ability to sit in the pocket, read a defense and throw on time, an attribute that any team will be projecting going forward.
“I’d like to see him hitting more moving targets – the crossers, the seam throws,” one AFC college scouting director said. "It’s not like he was throwing full-speed seams. A lot of it was a placement thing, and that’s what he does well. You didn’t see the full-speed crossing routes, dig routes. Even the one dig they ran, it wasn’t really fast. I’d say the one thing I’d want is more of that.
“But even if he threw that stuff and did it well, his weakness is seeing the defense and delivering the ball over the middle of the field. Even if he did it there, that shouldn’t change your opinion, because there aren’t 11 defenders out there.”[/quote]