I’ve gone from 140 to 200. I felt better on 200. Better as in I was horny and felt like a beast in the gym at 200. At least in the beginning of the week. I was getting it in a single shot in Monday’s. By the weekend I was sluggish. Now I split it up in 3 shots and added AI. I don’t feel as good. I’ve recently dropped the AI and waiting for my body to adjust.
What does feeling good mean? My dr told me people feel great with T levels through the roof, but so do people snorting coke. So feeling good isn’t a good indication of health.
It’s a stupid analogy when you think about it. I used to feel good when I used to smoke a half pack of cigarettes a day. We KNOW there is harm from cigarettes and cocaine. I doubt anyone will argue that. We have no evidence, however, for harm with testosterone.
My version of feeling good is being in a great mood, fantastic brain function, great energy and sleep, strength in the gym, able to retain muscle mass, great libido and rock hard erections. I’ve been there for quite some time at this point. If you have any remaining symptoms at all, there is a good chance something can be tweaked in your protocol.
I have to agree, this is just a bad analogy. It’s super easy to prove how bad coke is for you, totally a different story for TRT. I don’t see a lot of strung out people on TRT that are using dirty needles to get their fix multiple times a day (I know coke isn’t usually via needle but you get my point). It’s easy for the doc to use that analogy to scare people but doesn’t really hold up at all.
You mentioned something in a video about AIs destroying lipid panels, and other things in the long term. Are you claiming that this is true, even when not tanking E2 with An AI? Or are you saying the deleterious effects happen with long term use of an AI, no matter the dose, and level of E2?
He was trying to scare me. It was funny to me. Same doc that said it will lead to prostate issues. When he was giving me gel 15 years ago, he checked my psa each month.
Free T is what we want to target, but remember that NONE of these numbers mean anything unless those numbers are taken when you feel you’re best.
Now granted, most people feel DAMN good when they run a blast (300-whatever mg/week) but that’s not what we are talking about here. Some guys need a Free T of 19 to feel great. Some need high 20’s. It’s all very relative.
Where we seem to pay attention to these numbers is if we aren’t feeling right, or if something is signaling an eminent issue.
Example…
If my Free T were at 25, and my HCT and platelet count were getting very high…I’d drop my dose ASAP and try to reach my ratio at a lower free T level.
Interesting. He’s coaching a young body builder named Brandon Harding atm. He has him on a PED protocol, and in that protocol stack he has that young man using an AI (Arimidex 5mg every two to three days) Wonder why he would do that? 10:18 in he starts outlining the stack Greg has him on. Greg’s stack for Brandon
First two are more important than lipids, but whatever. Some AIs have more of a detrimental effect than others:
Anastrozole treatment had no impact on plasma lipid levels, whereas both letrozole and exemestane had an unfavorable effect on plasma lipid levels. In indirect comparisons, anastrozole showed the highest degree of selectivity compared with letrozole and exemestane in terms of a lack of effect on adrenosteroidogenesis.
For me, destroying the endothelial will kill you faster than any issue with lipids.
So what would your opinion be on 200mg/wk split 2x which has put me, at trough, at 1170 total, 45 free, 81 E2 - respectively those are about 20-25% above, just under double and just over double the lab standard.
I have not been running those levels terribly long (several weeks). Libido seems…OK…reliable performance in bed is definitely still my primary issue. Had a couple of positive surges at 100mg/wk but nothing sustained after 8 wks on that.
I’m starting to think I should back down not because of the number but because I have had a few times where I’ve felt on the edge of hot flashes…bed covers suddenly being too warm despite no change in bedroom temperature, for example. Does not feel as drastic as what I see menopausal women going through (sudden need to fan ones self, etc).
Is this a drastic difference compared to the protocol you were on before? If so, it will take a while to adjust
Several weeks is rarely enough time for any protocol to assess. Things continue to improve over a period of months.
You ‘MIGHT’ be sensitive to the fluctuations on twice weekly injections
You ‘MIGHT’ be sensitive to a large dose of 100mg all at once
In the case of 3&4, you ‘COULD’ try to split your weekly dose into more frequent, smaller injections throughout the week and see IF things don’t stabilize after another few weeks.
I know lots of guys with those numbers doing wonderfully. I also know lots of guys requiring more and some requiring less. They are considered ‘high’ by many of the guys here but not high whatsoever in my circles.
It was a significant change (from 100mg/wk to 200/wk of Cyp) which is why I’ve not panicked and changed much yet since those bloods were drawn. I did change up a bit and go to daily while I wait it out and consider lowering dose if it doesn’t help.
I don’t think I’m very “sensitive” to fluctuations in terms of “how I feel”…but I’m definitely lower SHBG to begin with and it’s definitely dropped. Not panicking on that either.
I say I’m not particularly sensitive to fluctuations over days because I’ve really not felt much different at all from pre treatment when I was 20% below the range for total and at the bottom edge of the range for free.
Further info…I am fatter than optimal but not obese, and type 2 DB…so I do take metformin as without it my blood sugar would be nuts even though I’ve cut nearly all sugars and much (not all) carb heavy foods. Low dose of a statin, too. Prolactin and DHT were (almost exactly) mid lab range. Thyroid appeared quite reasonable to me as well…TSH 1.29 (0.45-4.5)…fT4 1.24 (.82-1.77), fT3 3.8 (2.0-4.4)
The obvious issue with the links, is the dosage. The dosage of anastrozole for breast cancer, is 1mg per day, or 7mg per week. I’m on .5mg per week. One dose is supposed to completely get rid of E2, the other, my dose, keeps me from converting too much to E2. I can see how 7mg per week could do long term damage. I don’t see that correlates to long term issues with .5mg per week. So again I ask, is it the AI, or the dose of the AI that’s the issue?
