I’m assuming you were directing this question to me? Forgive me if I assumed incorrectly, but if not…
Yes I have. It’s kind of tricky and very much NOT an overnight fix lol. Where my personal balance falls in line is at around 165mg / week test Cyp split into daily injections (to help curb excess aromatase activity), and when my diet and bodybuilding routine is consistent and on point.
6-8 weeks of consistency with all of the above has me feeling like a downright healthy and strong Individual.
Oh man tricky is an under statement. I don’t know how pro bodybuilders manage to find the balance with the higher doses and multiple compounds. I am currently doing eod injections but my ratio is actually skewed in the opposite direction - excessive free t and dht over powering e2. I have no idea why not using an ai.
This is not an exact science by any means, but there seems to be to some consistent correlation of Total T (not Free T) / E2 = ~15-17 is a pretty good starting ratio to finding that balance.
If that resulting number is high, then lower your test dose. If it’s low, titrate up a little.
Example…
Total T 1200
E2 14
1200 / 14 = 85 (Test too high…lower dose)
Total T 700
E2 65
700 / 65 = ~11 (Test too low…raise dose or increase injection frequency)
Total T 1200
E2 65
1200 / 65 = ~18 (Now we’re getting somewhere)
We use Free T to determine where our protocol should start, but the Total T to estrogen ratio seems to be a really good marker for finding your balance.
I’ve heard a few of you say that AIs are poison.
Where are you getting this info?
When I started trt, I was very reluctant to use an AI, because I couldn’t find anything about its long term effects. I still can’t find anything.
In your total test to E2 ratio, are you talking about E2 on a sensitive estradiol test, or the regular estradiol test?
The sensitive test reads lower.
When my sensitive E2 is between 20 and 30, and my test is anywhere in the 800’s to 1000 at trough, I feel best.
Let’s say it was 40,000. Does that make you feel better? 40k people doing well without an AI because their docs have figured out how to do this stuff?
Sensitive. You provide your E2 numbers but make no indication what free T you had during that time, which is significantly more important.
Most guys use the sensitive method. The point is not the actual number. The idea is to start looking at it as a ratio and paying attention to that number.
The 15-17 is a general consensus and a good place to start if you’re trying to figure things out. If you already know where you feel the best, then use whatever ratio that works out to be for yourself.
When you know that magic number, then you can work toward tweaking dosage and injection frequency to obtain that ratio without having to use an AI.
I’d say your free t and dht is too high. On your baseline protocol.
And how did you arrive at that conclusion exactly? If I’ve confirmed multiple times that I have zero symptoms and feel great?
Youd never admit to symptons big D come on now.
Oh! So what you’re saying is that I’m lying about the whole thing and making it up, is that it? Your assumption is that I feel terrible, have zero libido, etc. etc.
If this truly was the case, and if you knew anything about me, you’d know that I never delve into any subject that I’m not certain about. This is why there are tons of topics in this forum that I do not comment on as I feel I am not sufficiently versed in the subject matter yet. For this particular subject, I can assure you that I am.
Try paying more attention to the little red lines under your misspelled words and less attention to the silly assumptions you make in your head based on zero evidence.
I’d like to see your free t a little lower its getting up close to 3%.
I’d lower my free T, now that I finally have it dialed in after 4.5 years, to go back to having the symptoms I had before? You’re going to focus on a number and ignore the fact that there are zero symptoms?
Are you retarded? Seriously though… are you? Let’s take someone who feels great and now lower their dose to the level where they had issues.
Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a new winner in the low IQ department.
Why would you possibly want to adjust the protocol of someone who feels great with no symptoms? There is no logic behind that whatsoever. It’s about as illogical as one can possibly be.
You are welcome to ask me what i’m talking about sir if you’d like to learn something?
No, that’s fine. I believe our conversation here is over. You have demonstrated an utter lack of logical or rational thinking. I won’t have any interest in your answers at this point. Best of luck to you.
@GSX250 - as someone who comes to this forum to read, learn and make my own decisions based on what I think could be of benefit, I would actually like to hear what you have to say.
Not joking in any way, sincerely would like to hear your thoughts.
This is interesting, is that total T to E2? When my TT was 784 and E2 was 43, that’s just over 18 and I felt really good. A few questions. How do you account for the different SHBG levels and what impact would that have then on the resultant free T?
I’m genuinely interested as I do believe it’s ratio and not numbers that counts but free T is based on SHBG which differs?
, yes. I could accept this number. I still say at this number the dr is just running through patients and spending no time on research. You should be careful in you wording. If you speak in general fact, a lot of people can easily pick you apart. All I need is one exception to prove you wrong. I’ve had people get me on that too. Like when I said if you are 5’6” and 300lbs you are obese.
You also need to be a part of the conversation on your panels. Ask the tough questions. Present alternative views and ask the panel to address conflicting views. Or better yet, have a panel with doctors that have opposing views.
I believe these doctors on your panels are selling us their name. That is what they are selling. Bringing more people into their practice.
I’m done. Back to the real question in this thread.
@theinneroh here is something you don’t know:
When I have a guest on for the first time, I give them the opportunity to speak and I don’t challenge them. I don’t want them to be embarrassed or put on the spot on their very first interview. After the interview, I’ll email them about some of the things I disagree with and ask if they’d like to come back to do a friendly debate with two opposing sides. In almost every case, they decline.
This weekend I’m interviewing Taeian Clark. I’m probably going to disagree with half of what he says but I won’t do that in the first interview. If he wants to come back afterwards to debate some of his points, I will gladly do so.
Does that make sense?