2 Years and Still Trying To Recover, Where To Go From Here?

Pharma TRT
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Finally got the lab results:

TOTAL T: 908 H (250-827)

FREE T: 61 (46-224)

ALT: 56 H (9-46)

AST: 35 (10-40)

TSH: 0.74 (0.40-4.50)

TOTAL T3: 81 (76-181)

T3 FREE: 2.8 (2.3-4.2)

T4 FREE: 1.4 (0.8-1.8)

REVERSE T3: 17 (8-25)

LH: 6.4 (1.5-9.3)

FSH: 3.1 (1.6-8.0)

IGF-1: 279 (63-373)

CRP: 0.3 (<8.0)

PROLACTIN: 4.6 (2.0-18.0)

I know for a fact that i asked my PCP to put e2 and shbg on there but for some reason ignored that.

These results were taken a few days before i stopped armour thyroid (because it gave me a really upset stomach) and also during clomid & nolvadex. When i took my test levels last month they were in the low 200s and my fsh and lh were abysmal so i decided to do a low dose pct.

With my free t being low we can assume shbg is high and my t3s did get better but still need them towards the top third percentile for optimal function.

Question is where to go from here? what should i be looking for or looking into?

I’m going to see a nurse practiciner this Monday. I couldn’t get an MRI from my previous endo but maybe this guy can do it.

Let me know what you guys think and what else I should test to get a clearer picture.

62

Anybody? thoughts?

BTW:
Saw an endo who specializes in thyroid only.
he did a thyroid ultra sound and said that my thyroid is operating normally and theres no signs of any abnormality.
that confirms my non thyroidal illness, although he scoffed at the idea of having a conversion problem, even though my t3 and free t3 are definitely low, but maybe i misinterpreted what he meant by that.

He referred me to another endo that works in the same building and told me she would be more of assistance as she deals with everything. He mentioned maybe its a form of hypogonadism but i highly doubt it.

but just to cover all basis, ill ask this:
If my total testosterone is high but my free test and bioavailable test is low, would that mean my testosterone is technically low in totality?

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I would say yes. But if you can make 900 on your own how would that differ from injections? 900 is about the TT number most doc shoot for. Only if your SHGB goes down with injections would this work. An the scary part is the longer you are on TRT the harder it is to getting everything going again.
I have read the liver condition can be a cause for high SHGB. You might want to look into that.
Did you test your AST and ALT?

ref:

I don’t know much about thyroid but your T3 and T4 numbers sure look low to me. They should be above mid range, right?

Anyway you asked for any opinions so here is mine. Best of luck to you.

64

Well the only thing that brought me close to my libido was when I went back on testosterone. At the time I thought I was going to be in TRT for life, I decided to start out with a quick cycle for 2 months before dropping down to my trt dose. The problem is I was never able to get the estrogen balance to correct so I still had some issues after 2-3 weeks when I thought everything was resolving itself. I also used test cyp which isn’t what I usually use or get, I think my body personally prefers test e.

My SHBG also went down while on test. One of my theories is that my body’s androgen receptors maybe burnt out and don’t respond well to my high levels of test, so maybe I need supraphysiological doses of test in order to get things back in order. The one caveat is that the test cycle stressed my liver and as you can see it’s still recovering. If I just decide to keep my trt dose to 100mg per week, would my test still shoot up to the point where it hurts my body? Not sure, but something I might have to explore in the future.

I was recently on NDT and then T3 for short periods of time so my thyroid numbers gotta recover a bit. My TSH has always been between 1.2-1.7 and my t4 is always top of the range. I saw an endo yesterday and they tested everything known to man on thyroid to see if there’s actually a problem. She said if everything checks, then it’s likely that my t3 and libido are separate issues. However I’m not sure as I know low t3 and higher reverse t3 numbers can contribute to a few factors like low libido and ED.

I’m interested in HGH, but I wouldn’t want to jump to pure, at least not yet. I decided to pick up some MK-677 which is oral GH. From what I’ve read, growth hormone increases t4->t3 conversion. In theory, stimulating my endogenous growth hormone should promote more conversion which in turn could aid in my libido and help correct things, but like I said, just a theory.

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We love cycles to build muscle but our body hates it and does everything it can to knock it down. I wonder if your body stopped or greatly reduced making T receptor from your cycle. That is why we cycle and not run 6000ng 247365 If you had a good libido at the end of your cycle no wonder you don’t have one with 100mg/wk.

I don’t believe anyone can run supraphysiological doses of test year round.
Your HCT will just go out of range leading to heart issues. An controlling the excessive E2 can be tricky.

GH the real stuff is way out of my price range.
I use 2:1 Sermorelin and Ipamorelin to boost IGF-1

66

Well I never tried 100mg/wk. before I could try I hopped off test because regardless, it wasn’t giving me enough of the effect I needed, but like I said, it could’ve been because my E2 was tricky to manage at high cycle dosages.

I wonder too if I have downregulated androgen receptors. I don’t know if it’s possible and I haven’t read anything definitive. I could have a mild case of androgen insensitivity syndrome which would mean I need additional test to my already high number, but that would bring me out of range and like you said, dangers could ensue.

Maybe I could temporarily do TRT, get my libido and and erections up and running again, then try to come off with Hcg, Nolva and such.

However the t4-t3 conversion does concern me and it has to have something to do with why my libido isn’t working. Why else could I have high test and free test during this period of trying to recover and not feel a thing?

I just got some MK-677 in order to see if that’ll help. In theory it should increase t4-t3 conversion just like pure hgh would. Hopefully this works and permanently fixes my Euthyroid problem, I don’t imagine I have any other stressors that could be contributing to this lack of conversion cuz I have no symptoms that are typical of anything.

Do you have any libido increases from Sermorelin?

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I guess I misunderstood what you ment when you posted this.

My last blood test had my IGF-1 at 149 when I started before the peptides i was at 99 All I’ve really noticed so far(6 months in) is a little better sleep and some additional weight loss without dropping cals.

The only thing that sends my libido thru the roof is 150mg/wk T cyp which gives me the >1500 TT on my mini blood test. But my HCT will not allow these lvls for very long and donating blood can get tricky with crashed ferritin.

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Do you have a good libido to begin with? Maybe growth hormone doesn’t increase libido if its already in a good place. Maybe there are other functions in the body that aren’t optimal that hurt libido.

The low free t3 and t3 definitely have to contribute to my issues. As previously stated, the last endo i saw thought that it was a seperate issue, but that just can’t be. If i’m not producing adequate hormones in my thyroid, then it cant send the right signals to the rest of my body, including sex hormones. I dont necessarily expect GH to cause an increase in libido per say, but more so contribute to aiding my thyroid which should allow me to use my testosterone.

and that makes sense, i’m sure id be in the same boat if i were on trt. It might be a short term solution but long term health complications could leave me worse off.
Maybe theres a problem with my pituitary/hypothalamus itself.
I see a urologist and endo next week, ill be back with updates.

69

After reading this thread start to finish I can say this is almost exactly my situation and after multiple years of dealing with this, i’m seeing a triangle between androgens, thyroid AND adrenals. When one is strained it seems to pull from the other 2. I am believing more and more that Adrenals being worn down have a giant effect on mental function, and body function especially sexual function. After being abstinent from AAS/ TRT for many months, I can say nothing really gives me any sexual function besides AAS ( low dose anadrol, or sustanon) but I only really get err at best results now. Still working on a solution but so far adrenal support has been the only real help i’ve experienced. Hope my .02 cents sparks some ideas.

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By adrenal support, do you mean a natural supplement? If so could you tell me the name.

And you’re also suffering from t4-t3 conversion? I’m going to get some lab results back next week, hopefully they’ll tell me something useful that I can relay onto you.

My failsafe is going to be HGH. I already bought MK-677 (oral hgh) and I’m hoping it’ll have the same stimulatory effect on thyroid conversion as exogenous hgh would have. If not, then I’m jumping on hgh, probably gotta add a little t4 to but regardless, that is my last resort. Luckily I have a source for pharma grade hgh, I just don’t want to spend the money unless I have to.

Hopefully it doesn’t come to that and I find something before it comes to that, but I’ll keep you updated should I finally find the cause behind my Euthyroid Sick Syndrome.

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Yes I am referring to natural supplements, I use Gaia Adrenal health daily support which has been the best of the many I’ve tried along with MRM cordyceps. I don’t have T4-T3 conversion issues, but I do have high reverse T3 which is an issue that can mimic hypothyroid. Also I avoid stimulants because that ends up making me worse off. Also, I am diagnosed with sleep apnea although lean and in shape, If I don’t sleep with a mask I feel 10x worse so there’s always that to think about. Sleep is HUGE and without it there is definitely no libido. And on top of it I have low T from AAS abuse so I have that curve ball issue exacerbating my situation. Which I can say definitely effects all issues if not taken care of as well. Best of luck my friend,
-Vince

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Thank you bud.

Not if, but WHEN I finally find out what’s wrong, whether it’s finding the source of the Rt3 or a solution that can counteract it, I’ll definitely be back to relay the news.

PS:
How come you’re not on trt? With testosterone at least you’ll be able to normalize some function and go from there.
And if I’m not mistaken, if you’re reverse t3 is high then shouldn’t that mean your total t3 & Free are also low? Which would then indicate a conversion issue. Like I said, I could be wrong.

Wishing you all the best as well.

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To respond to your question regarding myself not being on TRT,

I’ve had such an up and down response with TRT, my body seems to really have strange unfavorable symptoms to hormones now, sometimes causing me to feel worse. Again, AAS abuse has led to a lot of these issues. My SHBG stays low now which doesn’t seem to be a great thing thus far.

As far as thyroid goes,
My T4 T3 seems good but the RT3 if understood correctly is basically blocking those from being effective causing the hypo effect, but I’m still working to balance these issues out the best I can.

Thank you,
-Vince

74

My situation is very similar to you guys. I have short moments of hope where it feels like things might start turning around, but then it just goes back to the same hell. It’s a tease.

I’ve tried numerous things to improve but nothing definitive. Only thing I haven’t tried is to stay completely drug free for a full year and see if my body will fix these problems.

It’s just so hard. At my age, I crave a relationship and I want to be out doing what everyone else my age is doing but I’m completely sexually disfunctional. If I find any relief, I’ll post on here. I hope we all find a way out.

75

Hey guys got some updates.

TOTAL T: 837 (250-827)
FREE T: 114.8 (46-224)
ALT: 35 (9-46)
AST: 43 H (10-40)
TSH: 0.48 (0.40-4.50)
TOTAL T3: 77 (76-181)
T3 FREE: 3.2 (2.3-4.2)
T4 FREE: 1.8 (0.8-1.8)
LH: 0.2 L (1.5-9.3)
FSH: 0.7 L (1.6-8.0)
IGF-1: 362 (63-373)
Insulin: 1.8 L (2.0-19.6)
E2: 33 (<39)
HbA1C 5.2 (<5.7)
SHBG: 34 (10-50)

I recently tried trt 1 last time in early november because i saw a doctor who was well meaning and said that MAYBE testosterone would be better than hgh. I knew that my test has been high before and i knew i had a low t3 problem for awhile now but this was going to be my last attempt at trusting a doctor before going on my own path to recovery.

After 6 weeks having good test levels per usual, nothing really showed promise as i suspected and decided to do a huge restart with HGH.

Its been 4 1/2 weeks since on hgh and i thought i was almost out of the woods between weeks 2 and 3. it was then that my erections and libido were improving and i thought it was only a matter of time!

But once again like ive had happen in the past, i get better a little bit and then i regress for god knows what reason. I was taking arimidex throughout and thought i may have dropped e2 too low so i stopped for a weeks waiting for it to rebound.

Safe to say that e2 has rebounded but nothing has changed as of yet. I got HMG in the mail and will be headed to my Uro Monday to get pharma hcg since the generic ive been getting from a friend is garbage apparently.

I know its early in the GH supplementation so things can definitely still get better in the next few months, however why did i get better then stop all of a sudden?

I took my first hmg shot yesterday and got a decent boost in libido and mood but nothing crazy, I have 5 shots left so hopefully, in conjunction with good quality hcg, is a sign of things to come.

One question i do have is why is my test high normal but my lh and fsh are low? Since this is endo and not exogeneous production, could that mean i need to get those in optimal ranges to experience the benefits from my natural testosterone?

My t3 has been improving and i may add 23mcg t3 along with my 100mcg t4 to help speed things along. I’ll be getting proviron as well in the near future to help keep shbg low and raise my free t a bit more.

I also see that my insulin is low and is that a contributing factor?

Any ideas of what to do and where to take it from here? I’ll be doing a hcg & hmg blast for the next 2 weeks so I’m hoping that things show promise from there.

If theres anything i should do or look into please tell me, I’m all ears!

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What’s the issue at stake here?

Whoops didn’t notice how old this post was

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Yeah its old but my post from last year around this time.

Sucks that I’m still dealing with this shit a year from now.

At this time i thought my t3 was the problem and or my conversion of t4-t3 since it was always off or low. However being on testosterone has increased my conversion and total and free thyroid numbers, i would assume and hope that trend continues.

I’m at a point now where I’m doing 75mg Monday and Thursday mornings and I’m about to start day 21 tomorrow.

My root issues is either my T/e2 ratio and patience or unfortunately my brain.

I plan to just let things run for 3-4 months and do small tinkering if necessary during that time, no more large scale changes.

Maybe i just need to give things time.

If its a dopamine or neurotransmitter problem, then i wouldnt really know what to do so im hoping time heals this burdensome wound.

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