I inject IM every day. Even changing frequency can lead to 4-8 weeks of feeling off before you feel better. I wouldn’t change frequency and sub-q at the same time. In 2 months if you aren’t feeling better than you are currently then you won’t know if it’s the sub-q or the more frequent injections. I know it sounds like it wouldn’t matter but in my case any change I did mattered. Since this is a long term game I would do one or the other first for 8 weeks and then assess whether to do the other. That way you never have to second guess yourself in the future.
More frequent injections will keep levels much higher than trough but lower than peak compared to weekly injections (so overall constantly higher but not super crazy high).
1 Like
Estrogen is creating many of the benefits `you are looking for. Lower estrogen and cause problems. Come back here and ask what’s wrong. Why isn’t my dock working. Why am I having this issue and that issue. By now you should be able to decipher all the guys who have issues are always on ai or have low e2 and dose. Guys who don’t complain don’t touch it. They simply raise their dose.
1 Like
I just got some of the requested labs back.
TSH 2.060 scale 0.450-4.500
T4 6.7 scale 4.5-12.0
T3 uptake 25 scale 24-39
Free Thyroxine index (Free T4) 1.7 scale 1.2-4.9
Estradiol 43 scale 7.6-42.6
Pregnenolone 20 scale N/A?
SHBG 30.3 16.5-55.9
What does these results tell me aboht my treatment, or how do I better read them. I know SHGB is supposedly useful for choosing how often I should inject. I’m not sure what being in the middle would mean though.
The guys with low SHBG (around 20 or lower) are usually the ones that can only take a smaller amount of testosterone because they get side effects on higher doses 150+. The guys with super high SHBG seem need a lot of T to get relief. Folks like me 39 SHBG don’t have many side effects from high doses either (200mg). That’s all observational and who knows if it’s true but it’s what you tend to see from guys here. Just be thankful you aren’t low super SHBG.
Your T3 looks pretty low.
Yah real low and wonder what ft3 is.
If you have fatigue and trt isn’t working well go get on thyroid. You want to get to high lab ranges on t4/free t3. You are much lower . My trt didn’t work till I got on thyroid meds.
That may be what it is then. Trt has helped from where I was, but I just have this odd feeling like there’s something else. I thought it may have been the estrogen until these tests came back today. I’ll make another appointment and ralk to him about adding thyroid for a bit to see what that does.
Estrogen doesn’t cause the issues people always say. I feel fine and so does everyone else with high e2.
Remember and check for yourself. Men who control and keep e2 low have issues. Forever tweaking trt. Men who simply take T and let the body do it’s job are fine. Most men are above 20 when they feel well. I believe most men need 25+ for the preventative benefits we want like cv health, insulin, bone density , heart and brain health.
Anyways get that thyroid started and ask for armor thyroid. Take one am and one pm. Starting at 1 grains a good start, if it doesn’t totally resolve symtoms you would increase tbst to 1.5 am and 1.5 pm and etc.
You should be able to tell if it helps even if dose isn’t enough. You’ll know dose isn’t enough because the benefits will slowly leave you after starting and you’ll be wanting to keep that feeling of energy and normalcy.
Let me know if you have any questions I’m happy to help.
100% Just not true.
Not everyone feels great with high estrogen.
This black and white thinking makes me discredit a word you say.
Oh, and FYI: not all men’s bodies just aromatize the perfect amount of estrogen, especially when we’re taking abnormal amounts of testosterone, instead of the normal amount a body produces daily.
So true on this. Method of delivery of the test can also can cause a lot of difference in some with both estrogen and DHT.
It is true . Is TRT working for you? How long did you wait after trt didn’t work till you decided it was e2. Probably not long?
I am yet to meet someone who has issues with high e2. It is that black and white. This is men with fat and lean men. I had plenty of fat around my midsection and I thought the same when I started. That wasn’t my issue.
Also every study I’ve ever read leads to men with high e2 and low t or high t and low e2 show symptoms.
The guys who always ask me for help are either on ai or trt isn’t working for them. They get off the ai give it a few weeks and they feel great: not one has gone back on ai. The others don’t feel great and think e2 is the cause. These guys slightly increase their dose to get feee t into optimal ranges and it works for them.
My doctor has thousands of patients he has not one man with high e2 symtoms.
Tell me where are you getting your info? I’m getting mine from multiple doctors , little bit of experience and studies.
Sometimes hormones are as simple as a black and white solution.
Otherwise continue over complicating it and spend your days contemplating on how to make it work or feel better.
I know for sure that the guys who don’t worry about e2 do not have these issues more often they complain libido is too high and they can’t handle it.
Simplicity is the key with HRT.
I agree that the goal should be TRT without an AI and some men do ok with higher E levels. But, to say that ‘your doctor has thousands of patients and he has not one man with high e2 symptoms’? That is plain hyperbole.
He does. Give the man a call. Do you see his patients on this forum complaining of high e2 symptoms or saying they fired him because his methods kept them sick? I don’t see it. Either do you. Or do you not believe he has thousands of patients over the years? Sure he has just like defy probably has over a thousand.
The majority of men don’t need an ai. Again and again it is proven.
What is high estrogen? It’s a ratio or a balance of sorts . If you have high e2 then you have high free t and DHT. Without a balance you will have symtoms. That doesn’t happen with the way we suggest trt to be done.
All this control e2 stuff came from the world of bro science and body builders. Doctors prescribe ai because of that world not studied or medical literature that proves the need. Contrary to belief the literature supports e2 levels that are balanced against the other hormones.
High e2 is when we have low free t and DHT.
I’m not arguing with you on the amount E2 broscience out there from people running massive cycles that should have no bearing on a TRT protocol. As per my last post, the goal should always be No AI. When you say ‘that doesnt happen with the way we suggest TRT be done’, it sounds like you are a sales pitch for a clinic you are vested in. No protocol works perfectly for everybody. And some men along the way have to deal with Estrogen problems while trying to find their best protocol. Even following the best practices as detailed by the vast experience of the members of this forum.
So then symptoms I’ve had, say, anxiety, heart palps, shitty boners, insomnia at times are caused by what then? Those ARE symptoms.
What would your Drs say the cause is?
I just stopped doing the 30mg/daily thing after 2 months. All it got me was horrid boners and that’s it. I now have switched back to 60mg E3D and already feel more alive.
And really, if E2 isn’t a problem, why are we injecting daily? TO ATTEMPT TO KEEP E2 low. THAT’S WHY.
For me enackers, I believe the daily routine accumulated too much estrogen in my system, and never gave my body a chance to metabolize it. That, and never getting a high enough spike for FT to even feel the benefits of TRT.
My point is that not everyone benefits from high E2. Systemlord and myself are two prime examples on this board. And I find it VERY hard to believe your dr’s treat thousands of men, all of which NONE had symptoms of high E2. Then again, your Dr’s likely just say something else is the cause of the symptoms.
Agree to disagree I guess.
You are new here. Everyone knows trt didn’t work for me until I switched to a good doc that I now promote just like everyone here pushes defy.
You are being very pessimistic. We are here to help each other . Everything I say is on videos created by jay cambell; Steven devos; Keith Nichols, Scott Howell; Eric Serrano , and all the other docs who all say ai are bad.
Go watch the anabolic docs video and see what he has to say.
You really just jumped in here and start critiquing everything I’m saying without any history. Go read my posts and see how I thought every symptoms j had was high e2. I switched docs and realized it was not.
The way we suggest trt is to increase dose until symptoms resolve. You also need to give it time. Most guys have nipple sensitivity, libido issues, and etc. they blame e2 because they have no patience.
You have all these problems and argue with me. Your way doesn’t work yet you argue my way doesn’t work.
This is hilarious. You keep trolling me and your trt doesn’t even work man.
Go figure out your own health before critiquing my approach.
High e2 doesn’t cause all the symtoms men say it does. So many guys have a estrogen number out of range and want to drop it out of fear not symtoms.
Other men say trt isn’t working and blame e2.
I keep saying this. E2 is not the problem. Sometimes it can be if the free t to e2 ratio sucks . this is fixed by increasing free t.
More than anything it takes time. That’s if you get your free t to a level that works for you.
Now don’t go putting words in my mouth again and say that I said increase your free t to 50.
This would find most people running low level cycles. Of course they’ll feel something.
I don’t know enackers. I didn’t feel a thing from 210mg run daily. Should I have increased to like 250mg ? Seems like that’s a lot of TRT to run for life.
Plus, the majority of drs won’t prescribe that high of a level of test.
I’m not your doc man. I’m not going to give you any suggestions because you cannot think with an open mind. Go find your solution and continue pulling others down because for some Reason it doesn’t work for you.
You also responded to this within seconds of my post mending you probably didn’t even read my posts and just skim.
Tells me a ton about how you look and read people’s comments.
Self realized confirmation bias