[quote]idaho wrote:
Robert A.
I can give a couple of examples of trying to pull injured officers from a fight, but, cannot from a civilian standpoint, because all my adult life, I have either been military or LEO. However, I have been personally sued for excessive force on both those occasions and for the individuals on this board who have no experience with the criminal justice system , please pay heed.
Some background: Spent my youth growing up state/ foster homes, learned very quickly the meaning of protecting your food, especially your cake. Got into TMA for an outlet and protection, graduated to boxing/ Muay Thai / Kali/ whatever I could to keep my skinny ass from getting stomped. Military to LEO.
Before going with the Feds, I was a street cop for 10 years in a major southern city, assigned to regular patrol/ vice/ narcotics/ swat.
Case # 1. I was assigned to SWAT at the time and on Friday and Saturday nights they would put two of us in an unmarked car to act as back-up to regular patrol units in high crime areas. The powers that be thought because we had better weapons in the trunk, we could ?intimidate? the bad guys to be more docile?I know funny?
We were floating an area of the city that had nothing but liquor stores, pawn shops, and strip bars. Always a good combination for testosterone overload and drunken women, perfect fight conditions. Around 2330 hours a fight call came in from a large ?Gentlemen?s Club? and two regular patrol units responded. We were a couple of miles away from the club, but, we cleared on the call and told radio we were about 5 minutes out.
The two regular patrol units arrived, went inside, and stepped into one of the worst bar fights, I have ever been involved in. It seems the local chapter of the Outlaws had tried to ?evict? a bunch of rednecks from their ?bar?. The first two officers put out a help call and when I went through the door, a dancer was screaming they were killing the cop. This is one of those places that has a narrow corridor, that turns three or four times before you actually get to the bar/ stage.
The place was packed with screaming idiots and my partner and I had to start screaming, shoving, kicking guys out of the way. Finally got to the center of the floor and this large guy was actually holding this light officer OFF THE FLOOR and shaking him like a rag doll. I finally got to him and kicked him as hard as I could behind the knee. Never fazed him , just looked and screamed ?motherfucker, I am going to kill you? . ok, mmmmm, shit getting deep.
I was carrying a 5 cell Kell-Light and I brought that thing around in a overhand strike and caught him between the right cheekbone and skull. To my good fortune , he folded up and dropped the officer. The troops got there and 18 people went to jail and 3 officers to the hospital. One of the officers was in the recovery for a week with cracked ribs and a broken nose.
Contrary to what civilians think, you cannot shoot people for fighting you. Back to my guy. When I fucked up and hit him in the head with the steel flashlight, unfortunately, it took 37 stitches to close him.
I was cleared by Internal Affairs but, I was personally sued for ?excessive force? and of course the city was sued, because they have the money. 18 months after the incident, I was still dealing with the attorneys / city attorneys/ department dickheads who weren?t there and thought I was ?too violent?. The city paid that asshole $250,000.00 and busted me to Sergeant. Now, if you are a civilian and get sued for ?excessive force? or whatever, who is going to pay but you? Intervening in a road rage fight/ domestic disturbance/ bar fight…etc?.Think long and hard about your financial and physical health.
Case#2.
I started to write about this on the 6 vs 1 thread. Now, I have been involved in the fighting arts since I was about 13 years old. Spent several years in Golden Gloves, long enough to know that I would never be world champion, fought several amateur MT matches, etc?so , I know what its like to hit and get hit, never felt that there was anyone on the street going to ?take me? LOL?How stupid can you be? That badge makes us all Superman.
I was working a project car by myself and received a stabbing call in one of the housing projects. My back up cleared and I got there first. As I was looking for the apartment number, a door opened and a female covered in blood fell into the narrow hallway. I went to her and saw her right side had been slashed open. I called for an ambulance and had her lay on the floor and press in on the cut.
About this time, a short, stocky male tries to step out the apartment, I said ?stop, stay there? show me you hands? He stopped, held his hands up and looked at me. I stood up because I didn?t like the way his eyes looked and just lowered his head and charged me like a bull. I had nowhere to go in the narrow hall way. He slammed into me, drove me into the wall, knocked the shit out of me. Instinct made me grab my service weapon, because, it is drilled into you that you carry your death with you, every day on duty.
He tried to tear my hand away from the gun, all the time, grunting and butting his head against my chest and head. The fight / flight reflex kicked in, and I rammed him into the other side of the wall. My right hand was on the thumb break of the holster, and I was hitting him with left hooks and uppercuts as hard as I could. Didn?t matter, never hurt him, I got some space and got my left hand around his head, pulled it down, kneed him several times?nothing?..nothing was working.
He still was trying to get my gun and for the first time in my LEO career, I thought I was going to die, because, when I know I am in deep shit, I get a cold feeling in my stomach, happened in the sandbox. Funny, after that passed through my mind, I just went crazy, forgetting all my training in everything, and just started winging punches, kicks, elbows, knees, whatever I could. He just kept grunting, twisting me around in a circle, trying to get that gun.
Now, the fight and this was a true fight, not a match with a referee, lasted about 1.5. minutes, before the troops got there and pulled him off of me. In that 1.5 minutes, I broke my left hand on his head, chipped a piece of bone off my right knee the size of a dime and had my nose broke and 3 ribs cracked?.1.5.minutes?.1 VS 1.
7 days later, I went to a preliminary hearing, they wheeled him in a wheel chair, seems during the fight, I broke 6 of his ribs, cracked his tibia, broke both cheek bones. Could not tell at the time, that?s for sure. Because he was the stabbing perp and the fight with me, they did a toxicology. He was wired to the gills on a combination of crack and PCP. Couldn?t feel a thing.
Once again I was sued for using excessive force in making a lawful arrest. Took about 13 months, but, it was dismissed. Good thing, because the city hadn?t forgot the first time?.
Now, there is going to be people who read this and say, ? guy sucks at fighting? Hell, Overeem would have put that guy out with one punch?maybe?but, he wasn?t there and I was. I think one of the big misconceptions in general, is that stylized training will always work in a real fight?no, it will not. Not when you encounter guys hopped up on drugs, alcohol, hate?.whatever. The whole fight dynamic changes. It?s a real life and death situation.
Since that time, I have been involved in several lethal force encounters, where after it was over, the shaking was off the wall, but, nothing sticks with me like that fight, because, at the time, I thought , I was real a badass. Now, when I don?t feel like training, I remember that fight and go train. Train hard and train often. Avoid street fights like the plague. Carry a .45ACP, where legal.
The criminal justice system doesn?t care about your motives or ?what is right?. Don?t put your life and your future in hands of some local prosecutor looking to make a name for themselves. Don?t EVER trust a jury to do the ?right thing?. There is no ?justice? in a courtroom, only a winner and a loser. Sorry for the long post. [/quote]
Amazing post. Thanks for sharing.
