$2.7 Trillion to Protect America

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]vroom wrote:
By the way, I was curious, why could you not compare civilian Iraqi’s and 9/11?

Innocent civilians in Iraq are dying at the hands of islamic terrorists. Innocent victims are innocent victims, aren’t they?[/quote]

And furthermore, where is the justice for the 9/11 victims and their family. This war on terror would have made much more sense if they [the government] were really going after the MASTERMIND behind it. Instead money has been ‘wasted’ in whatever else that doesn’t have anything to do with doing the right thing in honor to those victims, but it seems like no one seems to care anymore as long as ‘AMERICA KICKS ASS’. Sorry, but this type of thinking is pretty primitive.

Civilian Iraqi body count:
28293-31900

That’s quite a lot for a country that the United States try to “free”, but it seems like no one seems to care.

So yeah, they are in same of boat.

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[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Brown_Sugar wrote:
Democracy is a system where the population of a society controls the government. Democratic government aspires to serve under “the people” rather than ruling over them. But I don’t recall anyone asked me whether I approved the war or this $2.7 trillion to be given away.

Does democracy mean that you are in charge now?

[/quote]

Is that what I said? Me being in charge?
Come on, don’t play dumb just for the sake of offending or finding mistakes.

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[quote]Brown_Sugar wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Brown_Sugar wrote:
Democracy is a system where the population of a society controls the government. Democratic government aspires to serve under “the people” rather than ruling over them. But I don’t recall anyone asked me whether I approved the war or this $2.7 trillion to be given away.

Does democracy mean that you are in charge now?

Is that what I said? Me being in charge?
Come on, don’t play dumb just for the sake of offending or finding mistakes.
[/quote]

You are the one that demands the final say on war and the budget.

We live in a democratic republic. We elect representatives. They make the laws.

Assuming you are old enough to vote you had your chance.

You are free to express your opinion no matter how poorly thought out it is.

You appear not to understand the very basics of history and how our nation works.

I reserve the right to make fun of you and your silly thoughts.

I would love to explain why you are so wrong but you wouldn’t listen.

64

[quote]Diomede wrote:
zarathus wrote:
also,

just so we have a little bit of perspective, about 30% of the budget goes to defense, 30% to social security/medicaid, and then other pieces of the pie. NASA typically gets two pecrcent.

Obviously, the government pays police.

have we been fucking with the middle east for 20 years? In some ways, yes. In some ways, “they”'ve been fucking with us too. To an extent, it goes both ways, just as to an extent, people in power has stuff to gain on both sides by this conflict. Saddam, is a bad person, i would say. However, Rumsfeld under the Reagan administration shook his hand (google yourself) b/c Reagan loved the guy, bc he was a secular Arrab buttressing Iran. the chemical weapons we accuse Saddam of using on his own people (the Kurds) he got from us. for christsakes, the city of Detroit gave Saddam the key to the city in the 80’s.

During the 90’s, under Clinton, the air force was bombing strategic sites in Iraq an average of once a day (mostly radar and anti missle that was against the no-fly zone). And that action, like all actions, is debatable (and I would debate, based on the evidence, we have now, that it worked), but its not flame-able. flaming people with every other sentence in ALLCAPS doesnt convince anybody of anything. it is why the things that dont work in the us right now dont work.

Saddam did not GET A SINGLE WMD from the US. Not a SINGLE ONE. Why does this LIE persist?

Yes, we sold him some precursors to chemical weapons…but the US government gave him NO weapons. Do you know what a precursor is? Something like chlorine…CHLORINE!

Detroit gave saddam a key to the city in 1980 for donating. THIs was long before the mass murdering that we know of came to light. Besides, its freaking detroit. Is there a worse city in the US? Oh yeah, it was called new orleans.

[/quote]

You don’t understand. Everything the US has ever done is evil. The US is responsible for all dictatorships ever.

The US trying to economically isolate Saddam is evil. The US trading with Saddam is evil.

The US is evil for working with dictators. The US is evil for deposing dictators.

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[quote]Diomede wrote:
Saddam did not GET A SINGLE WMD from the US. Not a SINGLE ONE. Why does this LIE persist?

Yes, we sold him some precursors to chemical weapons…but the US government gave him NO weapons. Do you know what a precursor is? Something like chlorine…CHLORINE!

[/quote]

You do realise you are wrong about this?

You also realise that Saddam was given the nod from the US to go into Kuwait, because Kuwait owed Iraq money? “go in, we won’t respond”. Then, US did respond.

Hang on a minute, that means US action killed more Iraq civs than Saddam ever did. Surely no?

No wait, it was “terrorists”.

66

[quote]You do realise you are wrong about this?

You also realise that Saddam was given the nod from the US to go into Kuwait, because Kuwait owed Iraq money? “go in, we won’t respond”. Then, US did respond.[/quote]

Show the evidence. Show that we gave one intact weapon of mass destruction to saddam.

Surely that shouldn’t be too hard. I’m sure this should be np to find info on say the BBC, CNN, or some credible news source that we gave him one.

67

[quote]Brown_Sugar
Civilian Iraqi body count:
28293-31900

That’s quite a lot for a country that the United States try to “free”, but it seems like no one seems to care.
[/quote]

hey! we killed a lot more in Europe and Japan in ww2!

But seriously…what % of those were killed by insurgents?

Now i wont say that the loss of innocent iraqi life isnt tragic…it is, but lets not come to some insane conclusion that US = terrorists because we’ve killed innocent iraqis

68

[quote]Civilian Iraqi body count:
28293-31900

Hang on a minute, that means US action killed more Iraq civs than Saddam ever did. Surely no?

No wait, it was “terrorists”.

[/quote]

is this a joke? Sanctions that Saddam hussein caused resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of people…let alone the iran-iraq war and the first gulf war ontop of those numbers…

Facts, they are your friends.

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[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Diomede wrote:
Saddam did not GET A SINGLE WMD from the US. Not a SINGLE ONE. Why does this LIE persist?

Yes, we sold him some precursors to chemical weapons…but the US government gave him NO weapons. Do you know what a precursor is? Something like chlorine…CHLORINE!

You do realise you are wrong about this?
[/quote]

Do you have any evidence? All I have read indicates that the US only supplied precursors and far and away the majority of Saddams weapons, both traditional and otherwise came from the USSR and Europe.

This is a distortion of the facts. Saddam chose to misinterpret what was said. The US’s actions prove that having Saddam in Kuwait was intolerable.

How many did the terrorists kill?

Saddam killed far more than 10,000 in his reign of terror.

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-09-30-iraq-ushelp_x.htm

I am not writing a book on this. I am not going to dig up all the evidence to try and convince you of things you are obviously trying to ignore. But if there is the slightest chance that your misguided opinions are based on ignorance, and not deliberate bias, then go and do some fact finding of your own.

The Iraqi’s killed from initial bombing, before any insurgence, was around 13,000 from memory.

71

I’m all about killing people for oil, but not if this dummy President can’t sell some of it to pay the bills… then maybe we can provide free healthcare to all the crybabies who can’t deal with cancer or the occasional blood clot.

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[quote]PantyPeePunch wrote:
I’m all about killing people for oil, but not if this dummy President can’t sell some of it to pay the bills… then maybe we can provide free healthcare to all the crybabies who can’t deal with cancer or the occasional blood clot. [/quote]

No kiddin…pussies

73

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-09-30-iraq-ushelp_x.htm

I am not writing a book on this. I am not going to dig up all the evidence to try and convince you of things you are obviously trying to ignore. But if there is the slightest chance that your misguided opinions are based on ignorance, and not deliberate bias, then go and do some fact finding of your own.

The Iraqi’s killed from initial bombing, before any insurgence, was around 13,000 from memory.
[/quote]

First off the ATCC is not linked to the US government, at all.

Secondly, most were sent to Universities. That is not at all out of the ordinary. As for the one sent to the “weapons site.” I’d bet the barn we didnt even learn it was a weapons site until after the first gulf war and weapons inspectors started cataloging everything.

You make it sound as if the CIA/military just handed saddam hussein a weapon.

Did we knowingly send him things that could be turned into Chemical weapons? sure. We send them out to a lot of people. Did we care that he used em against the iranians or even the kurds? Naw, i’m sure we we didnt. But dont make this out to be we handed him weapons and told him to go bomb the iranians or kurds with em…that is just blatanly false. This is just another example of someone take something and running with it…andleaving the facts behind.

And i see that you could not show that we gave him a weapon. Just something that could be turned into a weapon.

p.s. the chemical weapons used by the iraqis did not come from anthrax/botulism/west nile we sent. They used mustard gas and sarin nerve gas in Halabja and in Iran.

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This country is more of a Republic than a Democracy.

75

Stats have a whole lot more of a role in education than people think.