Attempting to eat 500g of protein probably lead him to eating tons of calories of food(unless he was just throwing down chicken, but he said eggs and various meats). Chances are he was still getting plenty of fat/carbs. Your body isn’t going to magically use protein as a fuel source until that’s the only source it has(kinda how ketogenic diets don’t set in until you’ve eliminated carbs for a solid week). And I can’t believe someone honestly said “and think of your kidneys.”
[quote]goya wrote:
rsg wrote:
goya wrote:
You can’t force muscle growth with additional protein. Obviously if you are lacking protein, it’s going to slow down grow as it becomes the limiting factor.
You may not force muscle growth with additional protein, but why shortchange yourself by limiting your protein intake to something suggested in a study, which varies from person to person?
The point of a growth phase is to have a surplus of nutrients (carbs/protein/fat) and you body decides what to use and what not to use. You may grow well on 1.2g per lb, but you may grow even better on 1.5g.
It’s all a process of trial and error which people need to use to find what works optimally for them.
1.5g is still a lot less than 3g per pound of body weight. But I suspect the difference is mostly calories and not the protein itself. It could be important in a low carb diet as the additional protein not used for muscle growth is broken down to glucose for energy.
[/quote]
Very true. You have people in this thread more worried about protein than overall calories, and that is ass backwards. Taking in more protein is MOST important when DIETING. You shouldn’t even need to overconsume protein to the tune of 3gr per pound of body weight WHEN GAINING no matter who you are.
There are pros on enough pharmaceuticals to aid third world countries who aren’t taking in that much protein.
If you aren’t eating enough calories to grow, your protein intake isn’t that important when the goal is a gain in muscle mass.
All is said I think. The protein intake depends on the goal and the nutritional outlines someone follows.
In an AD more protein is used then in a balanced diet where all the nutrients don`t vary much.
So I think excessive use is not necessary because the calories count.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Very true. You have people in this thread more worried about protein than overall calories, and that is ass backwards. Taking in more protein is MOST important when DIETING. You shouldn’t even need to overconsume protein to the tune of 3gr per pound of body weight WHEN GAINING no matter who you are.
There are pros on enough pharmaceuticals to aid third world countries who aren’t taking in that much protein.
If you aren’t eating enough calories to grow, your protein intake isn’t that important when the goal is a gain in muscle mass.[/quote]
I’m in agreement 100%. Protein needs to be higher when dieting because in this case it will have muscle-sparing effects. When dieting down, the possibility of breaking down and losing muscle tissue is very real. The body, which is lacking energy/fuel, will breakdown muscle tissue (protein) into amino acids then the liver will transform these amino acids into glucose which will either be used as energy, or stored as energy (glycogen).
When you increase protein intake you reduce the risk of that happening because you make amino acids more readily available so you don’t have to breakdown muscle tissue for energy.
Obviously, in the best scenario your body would not have to rely on protein for fuel, but we can’t take the chance of breaking down, and losing muscle, so a higher protein intake is recommended.
When calories are high, the body is in ‘‘accretion’’ mode: since its energetic needs are fulfilled by the ample amount of nutrients consumed, it can ‘‘afford’’ to use the ingested protein to build muscle and not breakdown its tissue for fuel.
So in a state of caloric surplus your body will build muscle at your natural optimal rate. However the natural body has a limited capacity to build muscle from protein, so consuming 2-3g per pound when natural and in a caloric surplus is not necessary nor is it productive.
What if someone was taking in 1g per lb of bodyweight, and their body did not digest all of it.
Wouldn’t this result in them actually having a lot less protein for their body to use than they intended, and therefore not having enough to build muscle mass?
How do you know whether or not your body is using most of the protein you are eating and not just crapping it out?
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
What if someone was taking in 1g per lb of bodyweight, and their body did not digest all of it.
Wouldn’t this result in them actually having a lot less protein for their body to use than they intended, and therefore not having enough to build muscle mass?
How do you know whether or not your body is using most of the protein you are eating and not just crapping it out?[/quote]
You have the wrong understanding of what is going on in your body…which is why most of you should be studying Biology books instead of worrying about certain authors.
Your body is using fuel all day long in different ratios. It is CONSTANTLY using fats, carbs and proteins.
If it needs it, it will use it.
What YOU intend is irrelevant. Your body will use what it is capable of using…which is related to genetics, metabolism and several other variables (like training intensity and weight used).
Your focus on protein is misplaced. Your primary concern should be OVERALL CALORIES. You will know you are eating enough if you are getting bigger and stronger.
There is nothing else to base it on.
I love it when people talk about crapping out protein.
Your body doesn’t shit out nutrient.
It stores extra nutrients as fat. There is no limit to the fat cells ability to hold nutrients, unlike muscle tissue.
In reality, you can technically store the added calories from protein as fat.
You won’t simply just ‘shit it out’, thats just silly.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
I love it when people talk about crapping out protein.
Your body doesn’t shit out nutrient.
It stores extra nutrients as fat. There is no limit to the fat cells ability to hold nutrients, unlike muscle tissue.
In reality, you can technically store the added calories from protein as fat.
You won’t simply just ‘shit it out’, thats just silly.[/quote]
From what I’ve been taught in classes your body does not store protein if it has no need for it (using it to repair/grow shit)
I was also originally talking about someone with a poor digestive system and poor capabilities to utilize nutrients.
Extra protein can and will be converted to glucose via glucogenesis. So if all your glycogen stores are full from carbs, chances are it can be stored as fat.
I’m wasn’t flaming just stating fact.
Think about it, if you could only eat protein and only build muscle. Why wouldn’t we just eat tons and tons of protein and only enough energy nutrients to survive. We would all be big AND ripped.
Your body won’t store it as protein, it will store it like it stores excess carbs. Glucose.
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
I love it when people talk about crapping out protein.
Your body doesn’t shit out nutrient.
It stores extra nutrients as fat. There is no limit to the fat cells ability to hold nutrients, unlike muscle tissue.
In reality, you can technically store the added calories from protein as fat.
You won’t simply just ‘shit it out’, thats just silly.
From what I’ve been taught in classes your body does not store protein if it has no need for it (using it to repair/grow shit)
I was also originally talking about someone with a poor digestive system and poor capabilities to utilize nutrients.
[/quote]
As Getswole mentioned, you CAN store protein as fat. It is a more complex process, but it is possible.
To do it your body must:
-
Breakdown the ingested protein into amino acids (which happens every time you eat protein anyway).
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Convert those amino acids into glucose (simple sugar) in the liver via a process called gluconeogenesis (it means creating new glucose).
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The body can then convert glucose into fatty acids.
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Finally those fatty acids can be stored into the adipocytes (fat cells).
Quite a long biochemical process, but it is possible. When is it likely to happen?
- When intramuscular and intrahepatic glycogen stores are full (they can contain anywhere from 300 to 600g og glycogen depending on the size of the individual) AND that protein needs are completely fulfilled.
When that happens the body cannot store the extra protein because the only storage places for protein is the muscle tissue/organs (and other structures), which cannot be rebuilt faster than a certain rate limited by your own natural biochemistry, and the free amino acid pool which can contain around 200g of protein at any given time.
When those stores are full the body has to either oxidize the amino acids (burn them as fuel) or preferably convert the amino acids into glucose for energy or storage.
When that happens, if your glycogen stores are full and that you are not burning the extra glucose from protein, it will be stored as fat.
How much did this regiment cost?
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
How much did this regiment cost? [/quote]
No more than if I were to have eaten 250 grams of protein. I am a college student who made the most out of his meal plan. The first few months, I was gaining 13 lbs per month, absolutely no joke. 180 - 250 in 6 - 7 months is the best gains in that time frame I’ve heard of.
I did eat a massive amount of calories. Probably close to 6k, but I am not sure because nothing was labeled by brand or nutrient content. I just knew what contained what in round-about estimates. I just made sure to eat like a horse. And no, most of it was not fat. I’d say 20 tops. The training I used was Chad Waterbury’s HFT, so I went in to the gym twice a day, 4 days a week. I followed the basic principle of it, but often inserted my own exercises that I would see to work better.
I posted a before and after of this transformation in another thread, but they weren’t very good pics since I never did any pictures posing when I started and that was the best I could do with a cell phone on a timer. I can dig them up.
All I can say to those who are fans of 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight, I’d like to see them gain 50 lbs of muscle in 7 months. Don’t bunk it until you try it.
[quote]drummerofgod89 wrote:
I posted a before and after of this transformation in another thread, but they weren’t very good pics since I never did any pictures posing when I started and that was the best I could do with a cell phone on a timer. I can dig them up.
[/quote]
Post a link to that thread with your transformation pics. Thanks.
I think some people might be overlooking one thing, and it may not be important, but came to mind.
If somoeone is say 160 lbs and needs 4500 cals to grow compared to someone who is 210 lbs and needs 4500 cals to grow, obviously the smaller person needing more calories per lb of BW would be taking in most likely a higher ratio of protein per pound.
Hope that makes sense and not an attack on anyone, I’m eating right now and at work, so I’m a bit rushed
[quote]atypicaluser wrote:
funmetal wrote:
2.5*BW in pounds in grams of protein for naturals = 200 lbs natural would take 500 grams per day
So when someone says 1.5 times BW i wonder if these people even train at all? Or are they in the tone-up crowd?
Let’s say all the non-muscle building maintenance activity of your body takes 1xBW protein a day (which is a huge overestimate), and the rest goes exclusively towards building muscle. That would leave 300 grams a day for your 200 poound guy. That’s 1200 calories a day, or roughly a pound of muscle every two days? Did you gain 180 pounds of muscle last year? No? I wonder if these 500 grams of protein people are training at all… Seriously, that’s much much more than your body can possibly use, which means not only are you wasting money, but you’re going to be using protein for fuel, which is not an optimal situation. Good luck to your kidneys, as well.
[/quote]
And store it as fat. Excess calories… fat gain.
more is ALWAYS better isnt it?
I gain fantastically well from over 1g/lb BW… in fact at 1g/lb BW i dont notice much benefit from protein supplementation/consumption… anything above that and i do.
I am 190lbs and i shoot for anything over 200g a day. Today i had 337g - a big day. That was just under 40% of my calories.
This is above maintenance for me. Imagine if i ate 570g(3x) of protein a day… i would be FAT AS FUCK.
OP, as i remember it, you gained like 90lbs the past year - 40-50lbs of which was fat. Maybe your protocol is a little lacking in its success?
JJ