What is a good first cycle? Im 5’10" 190lbs, Im in iraq so its kinda hard to get stuff. Any help?
Why don’t you do your own research before asking such a dumb question?
People on this board will help you if it’s obvious you’ve put at least of modicum of effort into thinking/designing your cycle.
WTF?
Ok then would Winstrol Depot(Winny) and Deca-Durabolin put some bulk on me as a beginner cycle? Sry for just up and asking for the answer, i knew better.Anyway any help would be greatly appreciated. After i read some more on them i may put out more questions about what to stack and how much.
Ok i did some research and came up with this for a beginner cycle. I have 2 cycles im looking at. Either Deca and Sustanon or Trenbolone and Sustanon. Any suggestions on if these are any good?
deca and winny would be a good place to start. save the test for later as it will help you break through future plateaus in your AAS usage. My advice is start low in dosages, like 300 deca/week and 50 mg winny/day for around 4 weeks then get off, recover what little bit you shut your HPTA down and then in another 4 weeks after you’ve recovered your HPTA repeat it again until you begin to stall before you up the dosages. You may find that you grow well on low dosages and make great progress with the two drugs that you mentioned first, with the short 4 week cycles. If you keep your HPTA running smoothly and don’t cause major disruptions in it’s natural levels, you will retain much more of your gains after you cease usage than say if you had did an 8-12 week cycle of higher dosages of both deca and test or tren and test as you mentioned and totally shut your HPTA down. You’d likely not retain very much from your cycles and end up resorting to much more drastic dosages and number of drugs used in your next cycles. hope this helps
If you’re considering short cycles (4 weeks), you will need to look to shorter acting drugs than Deca. Winstrol and Anavar is a good combination. Both have very short half lives and will allow for precise dosing over the 4 weeks, and they will be out of your system right away. Deca has a half life of 16 days. What you’ve taken will be continuing to act in your system long after your 4 weeks is up and this will supress your test production. I personally would look to a more traditional cycle of 6-8 weeks.
Tren and test is a great cycle for size. I wouldnt be using sustanon though. Sustanon has a deconate ester in it, and this, like deca will persist for a long long time after your last injection, complicating PCT a great deal. Enanthate or propionate are better choices. Run your tren at 50-75mg/daily and test at 500+mg/week and you will be very pleased. An anti-estrogen such as nolvadex is a good idea to have on hand. Run your cycle for 6-8 weeks with a frontload of the test in the first week. Begin PCT at the conclusion of the cycle with 40mg nolvadex daily for two weeks, followed by two more weeks of nolvadex at 20mg/daily. HCG therapy begining in week 3 would also be beneficial.
While deca and winny is a “classic cycle” i wouldnt recommend it using standard nandrolone deconate (deca). Nandrolone phenylpropionate is a short acting version of deca that would give you the same effect as deca, minus the long half life. However, if it is size you are looking for, tren and test is definetly a good bet. To take it to the next level, dbol is a great addition. And contrary to what has been suggested, a good post cycle therapy will allow you to retain a large majority of gains you’ve made. It is all about the recovery, this is the most important part of any steroid cycle.
JP
[quote]justinp wrote:
And contrary to what has been suggested, a good post cycle therapy will allow you to retain a large majority of gains you’ve made. It is all about the recovery, this is the most important part of any steroid cycle.
JP[/quote]
Justin, I am just curious as to where you come off saying that “contrary” to what has been suggested…? My entire post was about keeping the cycles short and allowing for optimal recovery of the HPTA inhibition that has occured. Because I didn’t say use nolvadex, or anti-estrogens and HCG, blah blah blah, doesn’t mean that I didn’t suggest that PCT wasn’t necessary. Some people don’t respond well to nolvadex, and some people don’t need anti-estrogens while on deca and winny, blah blah. If you reread my post you will see that my main point was to hit it for a few short weeks and then use whatever you need or like to recover the HPTA suppression that you caused while on. And opposed to your suggestion for not using long esters in your cycle, deca used for 4 weeks will only really be used for 4 weeks. It doesn’t peak for a week after the initial injection and only causes a suppression of LH of around 33% from 28 days use. If you utilize the winstrol and anavar in the latter weeks and allow for the deca to diminish before you start your HPTA recovery, the long esters won’t pose a problem. Deca becomes very suppressive to HPTA after multiple weeks of use, as in weeks 6,7,8,etc. If used in lower to moderate dosages, say 200 to 400 it will take upwards of 21-28 days before it begins to take an unfavorable drop in LH, FSH, etc. So with shots on day 1,8,15,23 it will be diminishing by day 29-31 and will not likely cause very much inhibition, and no where near if used for 8-12 weeks. So recovery of the HPTA would be easier and therefore gains kept would likely be that much better. I agree with you about the nandrolone phenylpropionate being a better choice, however not many people have that great of access to it, atleast not in my area. Deca is just so easy to get, and used for this case would work just fine. Traditional cycles such in my opinion, at least compared to the shorter cycles that are done correctly. If you haven’t tried it, and not only once, but many short protocols done with relatively shorter time periods off then you should try it and you probably won’t do any more 8-12 week cycles for a while. Plus this is his first cycle, why in the hell would he use 500mg of test + the winny or tren a week when he’ll most likely grow on 300mg of a nandrolone and perhaps throwing in the winny for the last 3 weeks extending a week after the nandrolone and then using the anavar for post cycle. leave him room to up dosages for his 4,5,6 and so on before you throw in that much test at that dosage. You may think that much is needed, but how many people truly start low and only up dosages when they stop growing? Not many, because you grow a lot at first, but at what cost? To be using a gram of test on your 4th cycle and having to deal with that many more drugs so early. Again my advice is to start out low(er) than what you think and up the dosages little by little and add in new drugs little by little when you need them, that way you continually give yourself somewhere to go in the future. Would you drop 1500kcal’s the first week of a 16 week pre contest diet or would you lower it little by little and as needed to keep losing fat and keep from losing muscle? Same idea! Think outside the box. Chuck
Well, i guess its just basically that i believe the first cycle is generally the one that permits the most growth. I don’t know of any research that has been done to back this up, but in my own personal experience and that of people i know, this is the case. I was just recommending a cycle using a decent but not outrageous dosing scheme to take advantage of the fact that hes fresh to steroids. And again, from my own experience i have found that running “standard” cycles yields me the best gains. This is just me. I dont mean to be offensive or anything, i was just bringing up a more traditional cycle in response to the one you suggested. I do believe that a 6-8 cycle with a good PCT will yield great gains. That is not to say that what you suggested will be any less effective however. In the end it is the user who has to make up their own mind given the information available.
JP
[quote]justinp wrote:
In the end it is the user who has to make up their own mind given the information available.
JP
[/quote]
much agreed. in response to your statement regarding the first cycle being the best, i am not diagreeing with you, but i will say there is probably some truth to that being that the dosages needed to flood receptors from then on is much higher than would have been required. think if you started with total weekly dosages of 300mg and never shut your HPTA down how that would differ from someone else who started with 700mg weekly total and shut down the HPTA by 50% more. In the long run, the first hypothetical situation will give more time and ability to up dosages when results start to diminish and also the option to add in different drugs that give synergistic effects, ie. class 1 and class 2 AAS together, before you ever hit that total weekly dosage of 700mg. this may be completely scientifically horse pooh but how many guys really grow that well after that first moderate to high dosage cycle they do, without taking the dosages up even higher. plus i just totally believe in not shutting the HPTA down too much, that is if you want to keep most of the muscle you put on. take the muscle kept from a 12 week cycle where the HPTA suffered severe shutdown and the user still administers PCT and recovers it pretty well in a fairly short time to that of someone who splits that up into three 4 week cycles over the course of 6 months and never caused great HPTA suppression, and evaluate the time with the muscle kept, not gained initially and then lost. who cares about extra water or excess fat during a cycle, it’s the net amount of muscle kept after the cycle is completely over. just my opinion though, so don’t take my word for it. if you’d like i could show you my results from just one 4 week cycle using deca at 300mg alone, and discontinued using 2.5mg bromocriptine and 20mg, taken down to 10mg after the first week, of nolvadex, and 80mcg of clen beginning the first week off for one week on then one week off for 4 weeks post cycle. i didn’t cause any severe shutdown, maybe 15% i’d say for me, of my HPTA and that just allowed me to use that extra 300mg each week for it’s true anabolic nature. i grew well, but like you said, it’s up to the user to take the information presented and use it to the best of his abilty based on himself. later bros, chuck