After doing a lot of research…let me know your critiques, what you would change, etc. I’m 5’7" 180 and 12%. Training 7 yrs and considering a cycle.
Week 1 frontload 1000mg enanthate in two injections M/Th
Week 2-6 500mg enanthate
Week 5-6 50mg Winstrol Oral/day
Weeks 1-6 0.25mg Arimidex/day
Weeks 7-9 150mg Clomid day 1 then 50mg Clomid/day
My other thought was clomid throughout and no Ari. I’m thinking Ari is better to not get HPA axis inhibtion from E. With Clomid, E is produced, and I wasn’t sure if its a receptor blocker in all tissues, ie brain.
That begs a question, why not Ari throughout, since it would seem better to block E production during recovery?
Why would you only do Winstrol for 1 week? This just does not make any sense.
Do the Winstrol for the entire 6 weeks. Do the Arimidex from week 1-8 or 9
If I were you, I would phase out your enantate during week 3-4 and switch to test propinate (if you can get some), or do some calculations on half lives or you are going to have enantate in your system for up to 3 weeks after your last injection in week 6, making it a waste of time to take your clomid. -Clomid will not work to start your pituitary excretion of LH if you still have higher then normal physiological doses of test in your system - which you will have if you do your cycle as is. So, you can also do Clomid instead of Adex for the entire cycle but I wouldn’t. If you got Adex use it. Also get your hands on som Hcg and research its usage.
But as is. wait 3 weeks after your last shot of enantate before starting clomid.
I frontload clomid at 300mg first day then go 100mg for 10 days and 50 mg for 10days then evaluate your recover status
These are just some directions to explore.
You need to do more research before continuing
I had Win for 2 weeks (rather than 1) to try to limit liver toxicity.
It would seem most recommned clomid earlier than you suggest. I was wondering why you suggest to wait 3 weeks, since E is feeding back also during the whole cycle.
I didn’t catch an explanation for prop. It that your personal preference, or is there evidnece of better efficacy?
Prisoner22,
You say you can run the clomid instead of the adex, but you wouldn’t. Can you elaborate on that any? I know the adex prevents the formation of the estrogen, and the clomid blocks the receptors, but is there anything else. I’m working on getting my first cycle together and don’t think I’ll be able to get the adex. I was going to run the clomid through out with nolva on hand, just in case.
Warhorse,
Thanks for your help, sorry for any inconvienience. Won't happen anymore.
Nar 23: First off, it is considered safe to run a 17 AA like Winstrol up to 6 weeks. - you need to use the search engine! I would definitely use another compound for the entire cycle beside just testosterone enantate.
to answer the question of using Testosterone Propinate to end a cycle instead of Enantate. Here are the approximate drug half lives of the two esters:
Propionate 2.5 days
Enanthate 6.5 days
This means that if you run enantate for the entire cycle, this drug’s going to remain in your system for up to 3 weeks after your last shot… CLEAR?
By switching to Propinate mid-cycle you can dramatically decrease your drug clearance to about five days after the last shot. This means if you calculate your dossages of enantate so that your last shot clears your system at the end of week 6 and your last shots of propinate clears your system also at the end of week 6 you can then go directly into the recovery phase
Now do some research on calculation of half lives, you will not understand what I am trying to say unless you have knowledge of these.
Lastly I said it before and I’ll say it again. Clomid used to stimulate the pituitary to produce LH, will do nothing for you if you still have supraphysiological doses of test in your system (Do some research on this). If you DON’T use propinate at the end of your cycle or DON"T calculate your enantate to clear by the end of the sixth week, Then you should wait for the enatate to clear your system before you can effectively use clomid for recover of natural testosterone production. And as said before this should take about 3 weeks. CLEAR? As for the anti E, run the adex for the entire cycle and for the 3 weeks after before you begin clomid.
DC36 Arimadex is generally a more perfered method of combatting estrogen. Most people feel that they would rather not have these hormones in their blood stream. That is why they choose an anti -aromatase over a estrogeon blocker. I have troube getting Arimidex myself so I use Nolvadex. ON a mg to mg comparison it is much more potent then Clomid as an estrogeon blocker. I save the clomid for post cycle recovery. However If clomid is cheaper for you to obtain, it will work just as well, so go ahead and use it for your entire cycle. Also do some more research on the differences and their simularities, dosing e.t.c.
“It would seem most recommned clomid earlier than you suggest. I was wondering why you suggest to wait 3 weeks, since E is feeding back also during the whole cycle.”
answer
“-Clomid will not work to start your pituitary excretion of LH if you still have higher then normal physiological doses of test in your system - which you will have if you do your cycle as is.”
P-Dog - I read that (twice now :)). That doesn’t explain it as I see it.
E is high late in the cycle and will shut down LH irrespective of T suppression. My thought is to reduce suppression by starting clomid earlier, thereby only having T suppression from T and not E, the realtive benefit depending on the amount of T and E. Since most recommend it earlier this would seem a possible explanation for earlier starting on clomid.
Nar 23, You said you were going to use Arimidex for your E control. This drug is extremly effective. With your proposed cycle, it is my opinion that your Estrogeon will be well taken care of by adex
Now lets talk about antagonists. Here’s a good example:
When a heroin junkie has an overdose and the paramedics are able to get to him soon enough, they inject a drug called NARCAN (naloxone hydrochloride). Simply put; this immediatly blocks the opiate receptors which heroin activates. The effects of the heroin are immediately reversed and the junkie/patient is revived. Often times I’ve been told that these people will get up and try to run away only to collapes further on down the alley due to the effects of the antagonist wearing off (narcan only has a half-life of 60-90 min) and the heroin reaserting itself.
The point that I am making is that an antagonist drug works quickly. Your reasons for taking the clomid directly after your cycle - to block the E receptors can be done just as effectively 3 weeks down the line once your testosterone levels have fallen off sufficiently enough to relieve inhibition.
SO, MY POINT IS:
IF YOU ARE TAKING ADEX TO CONTROL E LEVELS THROUGHOUT YOUR CYCLE, AND YOU HAVE CLOMID ON HAND. DON’T WASTE IT BY USING YOUR DOSES TOO SOON AFTER YOUR CYCLE IS UP. UNLESS YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO TAKE FOR AT LEAST 6 WEEKS FOLLOWING YOUR CYCLE.
If you choose not to use Adex and decide to run clomid through out, fine. But your actual recovery of natural test production will not begin until after the enatate has sufficiently cleared your system. This will be about 3 weeks after your last shot so plan to begin your “recovery dosing regimine of clomid” after that 3 week period. Before this 3 week period the drug is doing nothing to improve your recovery and is just blocking E.
CLEAR?
also, clomid is considered to be a weak anti-e when compared to a drug such as a-dex. its is best used post cycle to get your test going again. however as he stated it will do nothing to get your test going until the synthetic version is out of your system.