18Y/O on TRT. Brain Fog, Low Libido, Fatigue. Could Use Some Help

Pharma TRT
81

I’ve heard anecdotally that prolactin can be a source of man boobs. Makes sense to me, I’m sure there are studies on it. I think I heard of bodybuilders lactating with extremely sky high prolactin levels.

I would like to see you get labs to find the problem first but honestly I would probably take the same approach since finances are an issue for me as well. I ran hCG as an experiment to see if I could restore my upstream hormones but got off of it because of some really NASTY sides. Some people do well with hCG but my body rejected it like it was straight poison. I wasn’t about to run labs for an obvious kink in my protocol.

I don’t know anything about Cabergoline but it would be awesome to get a report on it’s effect beak118.

82

I was watching a video with Stan effertine a smart guy who uses to body build and etc.

He was talking about prolactin and mentioned to much causes ED issues. It is easily lowered with a pill.

Why take HCG when you can just take the capsule form? Pregnalone, dhea and whatever else.

83

Got a TRT clinic writing my script at the moment. Cookie cutter protocol and all that. Prescription is for 200mgs T weekly, 500iu’s hCG 2 times weekly, and Anastrozole as needed. I only take 140mgs of T in several doses throughout the week, got off the hCG 3 weeks ago (thank god), and I don’t take my AI at all.
hCG seems to work for some men but I personally don’t tolerate it well like many others. hCG is a very complex peptide chain of over 120 specifically configured aminos that are separated in a lab from either 1000’s of pregnant women’s urine or Asian hamsters embryos. Needless to say, it would be easy to botch it since it is so fragile. Once the powder bottle is reconstituted with bacteriostatic water the bottle cannot be shaken slightly or it will destroy the HCG.

My hope was that hCG would begin the biologically natural process of activating the P450 enzyme in the liver which cleaves the side chain of Cholesterol to kickstart the Leydig regulated hormone cascade starting with natural Preg and so on.

For whatever reason, it did not work out that way. Been taking DHEA for a week and just started taking Preg tonight. We’ll see if these supplements are any good.

1 Like
84

Hey OP -

Just wanted to chime in hormone wise.

You mentioned you were replacing iodine, then a few posts later you talked about being driven to move like a motor…

Just wanted to give you a heads up that you might be giving yourself hyperthyroid. What typically happens is that taking large doses of iodine at first will increase your thyroid hormone, giving you lots of energy (and increasing risk of heart arrythmia), then after a while your body will shut down its response to iodine and you will go into a deep hypothyroid phase. That’ll cause you to wake up and feel exhausted, and start gaining weight.

I don’t know if you are feeling symptoms now, but if you start feeling weird out of nowhere then I would suggest going to your doc and getting your TSH and T4 checked. Hopefully it doesn’t happen but I’m just giving you a heads up. Be safe out there.

85

I did not start iodine for this reason. You have no clue when it’s enough. I read many stories of guys and gals having thee thyroid issues from iodine overdose.

86

Makes sense. I didn’t like it. Maybe the ones who do are getting a better quality product.

You will like Perf. It’s great for me. Dhea jsut makes my damn head itch. I do take it but I’m going to ask doc to lower dose.

1 Like
87

@thehokiefloyd
Totally agree with what your saying. Wish I could just get some comprehensive lab testing to pinpoint exactly the problem but it is what it is. I’ll report back next week on the cabergoline, should be delivered tomorrow.

Also, I read online about HCG increasing estrogen in such a way that AI can’t prevent it. I believe the testosterone your testis make in response to HCG converts to estrogen regardless of AI. If your happy without HCG, might as well avoid the sides your feeling. I started HCG and a few weeks in, decreased my testosterone dose by 40mg a week, keeping the same AI protocol because I suspected high estrogen and haven’t had any sides. I feel much better on HCG than without.

Regarding what @enackers said, be careful with DHEA and Pregnenolone. I tried 25 mg DHEA daily and within 2 days, I could tell my estrogen spiked up. I didn’t feel anything with pregnenolone but I’ve read about other guys having similar poor responses.

@strong_lurker
I really appreciate the heads up. I’m still taking the 50mg Iodoral daily, but I could see how, long term, that could become a problem. Do you suggest I switch over to a maintanence dose? Something like a regular thyroid support supplement with like 100mcg iodine? Nothing adverse yet from IR, but I will read up more on this because I definitely want to avoid hyper/hypothyroid symptoms.

2 Likes
88

Haven’t noticed any effects good or bad from cabergoline so far. First three days were 0.2, 0.1mg, 0.1mg, and from now on doing 0.1mg EOD.

Something I learned today: i used to receive insurance copay for my testosterone which brought the cost of 4x 1ml 200mg/ml TCyp vials to around $37. Switched insurance and no longer received copay, so the total was at ~$125… If anyone is paying this amount, I literally went online and googled RX discount codes and managed to get a discount that brought it down to $33 for the 4 vials? Wasn’t exactly sure how that worked but I recommend it for anyone whose insurance isn’t copaying for test.

89

Sex yesterday, cabergoline still hasn’t kicked in. Actually, felt exhausted after the sex and fell asleep almost right away. Going to continue for another week or so to see if I experience any effect.

So I have an idea that I’m going to try but I have a few questions about it first.

Im very aware now that my low libido is caused by dopamine imbalance. My plan is to basically deprive my brain of dopamine for a week to increase my dopamine receptors density as much as possible. I believe I’m pretty tolerant of dopamine at this point, considering I drink on weekends, have sex relatively often, take caffeine almost every day with workouts, and use tobacco. I have lived this lifestyle for a very long time and think that it has decreased my receptability to dopamine. My experience with that first tyrosine dosage massively increasing my dopamine and libido has led me to believe that if I stop tyrosine supplementation and all those other things I mentioned above for some time, I can make my brain more receptive of dopamine, heightening it’s effects on libido.

I’m going to take a week off partying, caffeine, nicotine, sex, and all that stuff starting next Sunday. I want to know if I should also stop my Wellbutrin. I’ve been on 2x 150mg sustained release (12hour) tablets per day for about two weeks. Im wondering if stopping this medication for next week to further lower dopamine will help with my attempt to recover dopamine receptors density/sensitivity.
I’ve read that withdrawal symptoms are mild and, given my short time on the medication so far, shouldn’t be a problem. I want to know if anyone has any suggestions regarding whether or not I should continue the Bupropion, stop the Bupropion and resume it after the week… or stop it all together, as i noticed a much higher response to stimulants like caffeine for the first week or so of Bupropion, but now do not feel the same effect, leading me to think that Bupropion’s reuptake inhibitory effects on dopamine has only further decreased my sensitivity to dopamine.

I will also add that I am currently cutting and eating about 2,000-2,500 calories a day (might as well take advantage of the TRT!). Diet consisting of about 50% protein, 25% carbs/fat. I think during this caloric deficit would be a great time to try to recover dopamine receptor density, considering dopamines importance on appetite and the dopamine rewards associated with eating. Next week, I will also be exercising with much less intensity and frequency than I normally do. Been going really hard at the weights everyday for a while. Going to train without preworkout for the week just to maintain muscle while I’m on this cut. Planning on Sunday rest, Monday full body, Tuesday rest, Wednesday legs, Thursday upper body push, Friday upper body pull, Saturday rest. Will probably incorporate low intensity, steady rate cardio on rest days for 20 minutes.

@thehokiefloyd do u have any suggestions on this?

90

Great questions. I think it’s very wise to be inquisitive about all this.

I’m very interested in how the experiment with the cabergoline works out. I haven’t had much time to research cabergoline in depth yet but what limited information I have on it is fascinating.

Regarding caffeine, nicotine, alcohol etc…we are all our own science experiments but I do think abstaining from foreign substances that can alter our natural brain chemistry may be beneficial. Whether or not this is the solution to the issue, I wish I could say.

The truth is, the best neuroscientists in the world are still trying to understand dopamine’s, serotonin’s, and norepinephrine’s exact roles in all of their functions. Even medications that modulate these functions are all over the place and aren’t tailored to an individual’s specific needs. Side effects, efficacy, type of modulator, and dose are different in treating 20 people with the same exact diagnosis and/or the same symptoms.
I’m not trying to be disheartening at all but dealing with dopamine issues is not as easy as dealing with a general headache where aspirin or ibuprofen are going to treat >90% of the issues.

The most promising component of the issues you are presenting is that the brain is extremely miraculous in readjusting, compensating, and rebalancing these issues…This alone is great news for you. Given your age, the chance of fully recovering from what may be a dopamine issue, you are 10 times more likely to recover than a 60yr old. Holding off on substances (alcohol, amphetamines, tyrosine, etc…) that may inhibit recovery times will speed up your recovery.

I will present my own experience and the experience of many others, but first let’s address what more than likely brought you here:

SARM’S…in particular, one that seemed to have an adverse affect on libido. Stopping this substance or any substance that affects dopamine directly, sympathetically, or parasympathetically you stand an excellent chance of recovery all by itself.

My experience and the experience of many like me…I have indulged in drugs that completely interfere with and wreck dopamine receptors, neurotransmitters, and transporters. I’m not alone in any way whatsoever. I’ve abused MDMA (ecstasy, molly, whatever nickname you want to call it), cocaine, amphetamines, opiates, hallucinogens, benzodiazepines, and so on. I know many others who have done the very same things as me but indulged on one more than the others. People like me have trashed our brains for all intensive purposes. But…
We have all recovered! All of us regain neurological functions after abstaining for long periods of time. You used SARM’s for a short while. People like me abused amphetamines day and night for 3+ years!
Amphetamines (yes, this includes crystal meth) are some of the strongest dopamine reuptake inhibitors and dopamine agonists on the planet…which is why they are so abused.
In terms of having any dopaminergic function whatsoever, I shouldn’t even be able to function do to my heavy abuse of these drugs…but I do. I was a heroin addict for 8 years and used many other substances for long periods of time in my life. I should be neurologically f***** beyond repair my friend, and yet I have made quite a mental recovery after severely abusing my brain.
You used SARM’s off and on for awhile and while I am certain that there could be indirect consequences from doing so, I have a strong belief that you will recover from it entirely without intervention.

The takeaway here is that you are very young and should be able to regain your dopaminergic function as long as you don’t f*** with it anymore and avoid seeking out quick fixes. Trying to speed up a natural process with other substances will more than likely increase the chances of doing more damage in the long run.

I don’t make light of issuing statements that could hurt someone’s quality of life, so I put a lot of thought into what I am telling you. I honestly believe you have not done as much damage to yourself as you may think and time along with patience is the best solution.
We all want what we want when we want it, but given the details of your circumstances, you should recover much quicker than someone like myself who pursued a lifetime of better living through chemistry.

4 Likes
91

I wish some others on this forum would do this also.

1 Like
92

1 week is not enough of a change. He needs to go months to allow the Brian and body to heal.

You need a life style change @beak118

Nothing happens in a week.

2-2500 calories is not a deficit imo. You don’t need a ton of calories to maintain weight and girth once its been stacked on. Stan the rhino efferdin eats normal and lifts at 47 years old yet he looks like a guy who is on 5k calories daily. You should check his videos out on YT and see his recommendations or get his vertical diet.

1 Like
93

I agree.

94

@thehokiefloyd Thanks for the detailed response. What you said makes a lot of sense to me. I’m going to do take this next week easy still, but after the end of this semester, I’m going to do a similar cleanse for a few months over summer.

@enackers I figured a week wouldn’t be adequate enough time to repair the year or so of damage I’ve done, but I’m sticking to my plan to cleanse this summer. Also, I’m pretty aware that I could drive the calories lower. To be honest, I’ve never dipped under at least 3000 calories a day for my entire lifting career, usually pushing 4000, this is really my first actual attempt at cutting, ever. Guess this isn’t so much a cut as it is just forming good, stricter dieting habits.

1 Like
95

@thehokiefloyd
I forgot to mention:

Do you suggest that I stop Wellbutrin during this time that I’m going to try to repair my neurotransmitter imbalance?

96

Honestly I don’t know about dieting and cutting when on TRT.

I’m losing fat like crazy being on trt. It’s awesome. The pumps are rediculous. I walk in a skinny fool and walk out with more pecks and biceps then I walked in haha… love it

Have you noticed a difference now that you are on trt?

There are a few sources that I visit often athlenex and Stan efferdin. Both are highly skilled and very educated. Check them both out sometime. Bulk and cut is something athlenex says isn’t needed. Might make life easier for you :slight_smile:

97

I’ve definitely noticed a difference since starting TRT. Back when I would inject 200mg on one day per week, and especially when I tried 300mg a week, the pumps were ridiculous. Insane. Cialis and Citrulline the day after injection would be the gnarliest pumps ever. Definitely was unhealthy, though. Face would get soooo flushed after sets, would get all dizzy. Now I give blood regularly and have lowered the dose to 140mg a week split up in ED injections. But TRT has made a huge difference.

I’ll look those sources up. I’ve never been super serious about bulk/cut. I’ve Just always have eaten a decent amount of food and lifted hard and I’ve always been happy with the results from that style of training. But finally decided it’s time to commit to getting leaner.

98

Why blood regularly? That can be dangerous. Crash your fertinen levels and that itself can be deadly.

99

I’ve been getting crazy pump with just caffeine and my meds. I’m just back to it so it’s pribably going to plateaue…

I tried cialis 20mg yesterday it barely gave me a stronger erecting. Did it work for you in that area?

100

I shouldn’t say regularly. I still believe that my testosterone dose is too high, however, because every so often my face gets flushed. I give blood when I feel my blood pressure getting high and notice more flush during workouts, or feeling dizzy. And I only give 1 pint at a time. I’ve donated twice since starting TRT. I don’t think I’m causing any problems so far, however, since each time I go to Red Cross, my hemoglobin comes back high range.

I take Cialis 5 mg ED, I try to time it about two hours before working out. I notice that it gives me slightly stronger erections, but it really moreso helps me with just maintaining them. Like I will get an erection, but then you know sometimes there’s a longer pause with getting a condom or something and I would sometimes lose the erection. Cialis really helped with this.

1 Like