Well that’s stupid given that I can’t think of anyone who would meet the criteria for “perfect”. Everyone has flaws/faults… A perfect 10 doesn’t exist (have you seen the “unicorn” video
It takes time to root out the bad ones at times, the very smart/sneaky ones may never get caught. Blocking bodycam footage has become common here. There was an officer routinely planting methamphetamine on unsuspecting civilians in the US, I believe he got away with this for two years or so. The NSW police commissioner was replaced after it was found within an enquiry many of the strip searches conducted on minors (and adults) were unlawful, there was a quota that needed to be met, documents were leaked confirming racial profiling to be present etc. However this went on for many years before the findings were made public
Even if you’re caught, detriment/suffering may still be brought onto many afflicted by said officers misdeeds.
Excess force doesn’t always equate to death… Corruption/abuse of power doesnt always lead to physical harm. Criminal records/incarceration imposed (planting drugs, unlawful searching etc).
Should also be noted just about everyone goes to the doctor/gets surgery at some point… The majority aren’t arrested, nor do they have frequent encounters with law enforcement, perhaps if we adjusted for frequency?
If it counts I know a medical professional who almost killed someone (put someone on a treadmill whilst they were having a heart attack)
As I’ve said, I’m not anti cop… But vigalent over-policing here pertaining to issues that aren’t important at all within Australia has seriously strained youth relations with law enforcement. It’s admittedly difficult to remove personal bias given the amount of times I’ve seen LE officers/security guards roughly manhandle otherwise calm teenagers… Or get involved over the most trivial of issues.
Obviously this doesn’t pertain to SWAT at all… You guys are typically after the big fish
I’m wary of many things… I have no disrespect towards officers of the law… I’m wary about cops just as I’m wary of strangers/friends of friends whom I haven’t met.
If I don’t know you (this pertains to anyone) I’ll be wary of you/have my guard up when we first meet. That being said the image the Australian police have put out for themselves has put out a serious sense of distrust within Australian youth.
You missed the point my man.
It’s an illogical and ignorant ideology that so many here are driven by. That is that police in America are these racist, blood thirsty murderers that have zero oversight or accountability. It’s not only laughably stupid it’s demonstrably false.
The point is that there’s a grossly disproportionate amount of outrage aimed at police shootings / killings; no matter the context, as opposed to medical error or any other number of homicide types… Like, you know, black on black murder rates.
Yes, I do tend to do that at times. I apologise, it should be noted I am on the spectrum (albeit very mild, you wouldn’t be able to tell unless you were observing me socialise). I’ll sometimes miss analogies/points unless the root of the point at hand is directly stated. This isn’t an “excuse” as I’ve had some people tell me; it’s an explanation as to why I may seem a bit odd at times.
I agree with you 100%, the notion of cops being racist, bloodthirsty killers is BS. I can’t speak for America, but in Aus an officer will only discharge his/her weapon as an absolute last resort
It depends on the context of the killing. If you’ve got a defenseless man being shot in the head at point blank range (giving a hypothetical) there will understandably be backlash.
I recall seeing one case in which promoted outrage. I couldn’t wrap my head around why people were outraged
There was an African American child/teenager (don’t remember the specifics), who threateningly pointed a realistic looking airsoft pistol at an officer. The officer understandably got agitated, shot the kid… Kid died
What first comes to mind is “this kid pointed a realistic looking gun at an officer… The officer indiscrimately fired once… The kid died.” Had be been Caucasian the outcome would’ve probably been identical, you don’t point guns at cops… Or anyone
For a case such as the one specified above (I may have certain logistics confused… I read this aaages ago) I’d entirely agree with you’re train of thought.
I suppose the biggest reason for a heightened sense of backlash towards law enforcement stems from the fact that we are meant to feel “safe”, “prectected” from LE… When a disturbing case of misconduct stemming from an officer of the law comes to light it makes us feel uneasy, insecure and potentially helpless. With Aus we generally percieved police to be either
- intimidating
- threatening
- a pain (getting pulled over for going 2mph over the speed limit)
Police ought to be people who we feel safe around… Not figures that instill fear into the eyes of law abiding citizens.
What’s adequate? It seems to me that an adequate response that will satisfy the general expectations you’re putting forward in this thread is a pipe dream, at best. This is not uncommon among people who haven’t experience violence or studied it to any degree. People’s ideas about violence are shaped by fictional sources like TV, books, video games and their own imagination, and then these unrealistic expectations are projected onto people who end up being forced to respond to violence.
That’s how you get silly ideas like “he was only being robbed, why did he shoot?”. Robbery implies threat of violence, and a gun to your head is as severe of a threat as it gets. You are now faced with an immediate decision of whether or not you bet your life on the goodwill of the robber.
Ferguson, Missouri in the USA was torched for this reason. People had fantasy expectations about how violence should be handled that were wrapped up in racism and misinformation that the media was glad to profit from.
In the USA lethal force is actually fairly well-settled law. I started a thread about it a few months ago. You seem to discount our system because we have more violence but that’s really a foolish way of considering whether a given law or set of laws are just or not. If you discount our pockets of drug and gang-related violence, we are just as peaceful as anywhere in Europe or Australia.
Well, for now at least. We’ll see how the next few weeks go.
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Well stated and exactly my point. Unrealistic expectations from mobs of low information cretins is not how we should dictate our laws.
Ferguson is the perfect example.
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Absolutely not, gun related suicides adjusted for population are far, far higher than Aus… Mass shooting when filtering out gang related events are far higher in the US compared to Aus when adjusted for population… We have gangs here too, and organsed crime… As a matter of fact the majority of gun related violence here is gang related… Adjust the stats for both countries and filter out drug/gang related gun homicide and the rate of gun violence in Aus is literally almost non existent… I’ll crunch the numbers tommorow and post them up.
The love machine shooting in Melbourne last year (perhaps the only mass shooting we had all year) was gang related… I take it back, we had two mass shootings. One was gang related, the other was with some maniac who had an illigal unregistered firearm in his possession
One must ask is someone’s feeling of unease around an l.e.o. reasonable or warranted ? I’d say no in 99% of interactions.
Until we can operate from a reasonable standard you’ll only see unhinged losers continue to push the boundaries to ridiculous lengths. It’s happening here already.
I expect criminals to be uneasy around me. It alerts me to their activities. But for Joe Citizen minding his own business I’d say take a deep breath.
Unless you want to apply those standards to any number of groups ? Your odds of being harmed, never mind killed, by police is already astronomically low.
Back to NSW… police employ sniffer dogs within train stations, outside pubs and more. I don’t actually have to be in possession of anything to be caught out. Statistically within 70%+ of the searches nothing is found. Being next to someone doing something Illigal (in terms of recreational drug use) may be enough for residue to stain my clothes… So now you’ve got people being strip searched left right and centre
I don’t know about America, but over here… Even law abiding citizens tend to have their guard up. In other states it’s more lax, yet there’s still a sense of palpable tension between youth/law enforcement. Perhaps the tension is further exacerbated by negative stereotypes/preconceived notions that may be enforced within the media
I agree though, the odds of being killed by LE (or even tasered here) are very low. You may be treated very roughly, pushed around a bit… But if you put up with it no harm will come to you.
Strip searches here are not at all common. Females get them before being booked because they’ve hidden guns, dope, contraband in their vaginas or under their tits or fat rolls.
We check under balls for dope. Ass cracks too. But not in public. It’s done with courtesy and as much dignity as possible.
No need unless you feel compelled to do so. I’m talking about violent crime, you’re talking about gun crime. You can split hairs all day on that and get nowhere. My statement is simple, the overwhelming majority of violence in the USA is concentrated in very, very small pockets. The rest of the country is roughly as violent as any other western country.
Where I live fully-automatic machine guns are legal (still Class III at the federal level). There are virtually no state-level gun laws. Everyone who isn’t a prohibited person can buy a gun and start carrying it right now, and our huge area of people has some of the lowest violent crime you’ll find.
It’s the culture and the people, not the laws.
Is dope marijuana or heroin… Because looking inside vaginas for a bit of cannabis is an absolute waste of resources in my opinion
Just leave them alone if they’ve got a bit of weed… They aren’t hurting anyone. Granted this isn’t the officers decision, it’s government mandated law/protocal.
It’s done privately here too, but typically it’s “the dog has sat down next to you outside of this bar, come to this tent” strip search ensues.
Dope = crack. Buttons of heroin. Not weed.
Well if you’re hiding buttons of heroin in you’re vagina you’re probably selling right? You’re probably going to bother resorting to such extreme measures to concesl a tiny quantity for personal use
No problem there, I believe if you’ve got legitimate reason to suspect someone is dealing hard drugs a strip search (in private… So on the premises of a police station) can be warranted… But what they’re doing, setting up strip search tents outside train stations, bars etc… It’s getting ridiculous
Not targeting dealers either… Indiscriminately anyone getting approach by these dogs
Or using. Either way it’s gotta be found. It’s disgusting work too. The smells…
Little bit too much information lol, can’t you get out of having to search a girl by just stating you’re not comfortable with that? Get a female officer to conduct the search?
So if you’ve found someone in possession of a small quantity… Do they go to prison? Or are rehabilitative measures implimented… I vehemently opposed prison time for those caught with minute quantities. No one should go to prison over like … 0.2 grams of cocaine
In this case in Naples, I read an interview with a former convict who now represents/oversees convicts who said that he feels bad for the cop as well as the kid. He believes that maybe the cop’s use of force was excessive. He then added that everyone knows, especially a cop, that you don’t wear a Rolex in Naples. He even went so far as to say that had the cop not had his weapon on him, the kid would have lived (obviously). The moral of the story being that cops should not wear Rolexes or guns when off duty. The thing is that the cop is ordered to have his weapon at all times. The Italian cop who was stabbed to death by an American (and was on duty) last year was unarmed and apparently forgot his weapon at his headquarters. Some of the comments were pretty funny. One was that maybe they should make wearing Rolexes illegal and charge the cop with that. Another referred to the necklace and Rolex that were in the dead kid’s pocket. Someone said that they were actually his and he was only being a good citizen by not wearing them in public.
In Naples, the average citizen will say that you don’t wear a Rolex in public unless you are asking for trouble because that’s the reality they live in (and most can’t afford one anyway) but they will also feel no great loss when a robbery results in one less thief. This is why the only people who showed up to protest at the police HQ, technically a barracks or armory because they are military police, were the thief’s family and friends.
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They typically refuse the charges or do little to no time at all depending on the amount.
It’s an overblown myth that drug users are doing hard time for possession of small quantities.
My opinion is if im locking up the users they’re not able to buy their dog chow and stay out of the ghettos where the violence is concentrated. The law abiding folks in these areas don’t need white addicts in their neighborhood buying dope.
You’d be surprised (not America, but Aus)… In WA if yours caught with more than 10g cannabis… You’ll be going to prison… In QLD if you’re caught with just about anything other than a tiny amount of weed you’re almost certainly doing time and/or getting a criminal record.
NT/ACT are generally far more leniant. In Victoria you probably won’t go to prison if caught the first time, but you’ll almost certainly get a criminal record.
This isn’t the right topic here… But a guy doing time for a bit of LSD probably isn’t an addict.
But if they’ve got criminal records, how to they gain employment when they get out? Who do they assimilate with in prison? I firmly believe (and statistics back this) non violent drug offences treated with prison time tend to induce a worsened outcome
Personally I think we’re far too lenient on drug crimes. Drugs ravage entire communities.
Depends on the drug.
Meth… Yes
Psilocybin mushrooms… No
Etc
We will have to agree to disagree here. Countries that have taken a more leniant approach tend to have better outcomes than Australia, America has had (both in relation to rates of addiction, percentage of users, drug related crime etc)
We can continue this specific discussion in my ear on drugs thread if you’d like… Otherwise we should go back to the case of the 15y/o boy
One of the main aspects of you’re ideology that irritates me is with you’re opinion at hand you probably believe that I should be locked up despite the fact that I’m not a danger to anyone, I’m a productive member of society yet in December I tried what one could consider a hard drug (ketamine) whilst overseas… Do I deserve to be locked up for this?
Should be noted since i’ve done practically nothing
Caffeine is a drug, isn’t ravishing society… Drugs is a very loose term. You’d need to specify hard drugs like alcohol, meth, coke, heroin ravage society… Wherein I’d agree
Meth is the bad one here (The US has the opiate epidemic, we have an “ice” epidemic)