15 YO Attempts to Mug a Cop with Fake Gun, Gets Shot - First Degree Murder?!

This may be dependant on the state at hand here (geographical area of residency). Within states that have looser gun laws it appears the majority of offenders acquire their firearms legally.

“Our findings indicate that 40% of offenders incarcerated for committing crimes with a gun in the 13 US states with the least strict standards for legal firearm purchase and possession were in possession of the gun illegally.”

This certainly isn’t a minority, granted the study size isn’t massive comparative to the actual populace incarcerated… Only looking at fourteen thousand inmates.

Another generalised study which I can’t exactly link here because it’s a PDF looks over state/federal inmates (mass amounts)… Only 45% of those who acquired guns/were involved within gun crime had sourced the weapons through the black market, it certainly isn’t the minority.

If we look at mass shootings excluding drugs, domestic violence, gangs/ anything other than say some deranged asshole opening fire in a public place

Is appears 74% of them got their guns legally. Whilst America has a high rate of gun violence, they certainly aren’t the worst out of all countries of which we have data for… Not by a long shot

“The U.S. gun death rate was 10.6 per 100,000 people in 2016, the most recent year in the study, which uses a somewhat different methodology from the CDC. That was far higher than in countries such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6). But the rate in the U.S. was much lower than in El Salvador (39.2 per 100,000 people), Venezuela (38.7), Guatemala (32.3), Colombia (25.9) and Honduras (22.5), the study found”

Take the fact that in the US 6/10ths of gun deaths are suicides (ratio for other countries I’m unsure of the exact stat) and you’ve got about 6 gun deaths per million people vs Australia’s 1 (keep in mind this has been adjusted for populace, and in Aus factor out suicide and it’s probably lower than 1)

Should also be noted this is what is reported. I’d argue on both ends (Aus and the US) the stats are proportionately higher given we have bikie gangs, mafia etc (in Aus that is)… some of these guys own guns… Not all deaths are going to be reported (i’d assume some just disappear).

Prior to the Port Arthur shooting here the gun death rate was almost 3.5x higher. Regardless, when looking at data pertaining to areas with stricter gun control it’s difficult to argue more regulation (background checks, gun safes etc) shouldn’t be in place.

I’m not on board for Australia’s level of regulation… we take it a bit too far. I’m on board for the kind of scheme you’d see in Canada or New Zealand… I’d also state marijuana related offences (personal use that is) shouldn’t dictate license disqualification… But a violent misdemeanor within the past 10-15 years or so should certainly disqualify one as a candidate. A law abiding citizen should be able to own a gun if they so please… But I don’t believe the answer to curbing gun violence (I’ve been given this argument from a few back when I lived in the US) is for EVERYONE to carry a gun in public.

I can only imagine how this would turn out. With the majority not even trained how to use a gun adequately (as well as not being trained to handle stress in a combat/active shooter style situation) it’d probably be more along the lines of everybody shooting everybody (shooting blindly at whoever has a gun… Which is everyone)

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It’s scary to think about. It’s much better to have only one person capable of shooting. That way, he doesn’t have to deal with the stress of being shot at himself. Plus: he will be able to clearly identify his targets…everyone not holding a firearm.

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Or… Allow certain people to have guns that have adequate training (armed guards, police etc)…

Everyone needn’t carry a gun, esp given the frequency of mass shootings… It’s overkill

Mass shootings are all too common (in America mind you), but the chance of actually being in one is incredibly low. Given say 74% of these mass shooters acquire their guns legally, it appears somewhat logical to restrict access to the firearms most commonly used within mass shootings. Certain guns are a hell of a lot deadlier than others, I can’t fathom why any civilian needs an assault rifle.

Comparing guns with prohibition I find flawed given the user of drugs/alcohol doesn’t have the ability to mow down a movie theatre full of people in ten minutes. In Australia, whilst we are generally tough on drugs… We are INCREDIBLY tough on weapons, it’s turned out for the better (the weapons part, we have far too many people incarcerated for trivial offences)

What is interesting however is that although the rate of gun violence has always been disproportionately high even when adjusted for populace compared to many other Western countries, mass shootings only appear to have become popular within the two decade. Is due to higher media presence?

Define “assault rifle.” Handguns kill vastly more people than rifles and personal weapons; i.e. hands, fists, feet…kill more people every year than all rifle types combined.

Oddly, drive by shootings that injure / kill more than 4 people are never counted as “mass shootings”…why ?

We will never forfeit our right to own firearms. Especially now with increasingly unhinged anti American politicians pushing for exactly that. Ironically it’s the left… The “Trump is literally Hitler” party. Hitler made owning firearms illegal. Turned out great for a certain peoples…

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Generally when I talk about mass shootings I like to discard those in which four people + are injured in response to gang related activity, drug/alcohol related shootings etc

Otherwise I would count drive by shootings

If you look at Wikipedia’s list from 2019, drive by shootings are included.

But why ? Its by definition a mass shooting and are accomplished with handguns far more often than rifle types.

If we included drive by shootings within the realms of mass shootings you’d have a fuck ton of mass shootings in the US yearly (confined to certain areas plagued by gang activity). This isn’t exactly making a good case for lack of gun control.

Should also be noted overseas within many Western countries handguns are strictly, strictly regulated.

Well don’t we need to be honest about the problem so we can address it ? It’s not gun control…it’s criminal control and a glaring lack of addressing mentally ill people because we’re far more likely to shun them and demonize them. Or trash them on social media like cowards.

Are you sure, statistically the US has a prevalence of mental illness around 2x that of Aus… Should that account for a 13x higher rate of gun deaths?

You’re correct though, mentally illness is stigmatised unfairly… More needs to be done about this (public education/awareness, healthcare overhaul)… And to back my point initially, enforce background checks

Am I sure about what ?

That mental illness is the sole factor driving up rates of gun violence

That is happening in spite of gun control, not because of a lack of gun control.

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Like, one armed guard per room?

I’d say they’re all too common everywhere.

One of these things is not like the other.

I’d say either that, the prevalence of mind-altering prescription dope, the loss of Judeo-Christian societal norms, or a combination of the three.

Social media has created a massive amount of degenerate cocksuckers that would rather trash another human being than reach out to them and offer help or a sympathetic ear.

There is very little in terms of gun control within many states of the US. Why isn’t this happening all the time in Australia (we do have a gang problem), the Netherlands, the UK etc

Not sure if rates are increasing. But, I’d say mental illness; or perhaps a better description would be alienation, certainly isn’t helping.

Agreed, I actually don’t use social media as I’ve found many feel far too comfortable being a dick behind a screen. It appears to induce a state of disinhibition

I’d argue a very good portion of mass shooters (unrelated to gangs, drugs/alcohol etc) are mentally ill. Not to say one should sympathise with them, however these kinds of people typically showcase red flags prior to committing such atrocities… We should cater towards treatment/rehabilitation and re integration into normal society BEFORE they shoot up a school

Look at Chicago, NYC, California. They have stricter gun laws than many European nations.

In NYC though (unlike Chicago for example), violent crime has gone down significantly starting in the 90s but that wasn’t because of stricter gun control but because of stricter criminal control.

They do, however it still pales in comparison to the gun control we have overseas.

Other issue here is, gun control is state by state… Neighboring states may have far more leniant regulations, this seriously opens up the prospect of a massive black market/for people to acquire firearms interstate. Within Europe, generally all countries surrounding one another have strict gun laws, Australia is an island… Fairly self explanatory

Unless you can link me scientific data to prove gun control doesn’t work my opinion isn’t open to budging.

If I was to acquire a gun on the black market (something which I’d never do as I’m not a delinquent) I’d probably be given a single shot .22 pistol/rifle, in the US I’d have access to just about everything.

You don’t need science. Look at Chicago.