[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
Is anyone going to answer the question of why would a business purposely increase their overhead with no return on production or profit?[/quote]
Answer: They wont.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
To anyone who worked at a fast food place when younger (myself included): you would not have turned down a raise even if it meant prices would have gone up. You also believed you should have been paid more. You may have accepted the conditions but don’t say you liked them.
I don’t know what a fair wage is, for any job, but I can’t fault anyone for trying to get as much as they can or for believing their work is worth more than what they are getting paid. I’m not some communist after all. [/quote]
The most important phrase of your post.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
work is worth [/quote]
A fast food worker’s work is not worth $15/hr. It’s actually laughable that some people think it is. [/quote]
The problem is in measuring what something is worth. A Big Mac could be free and I would rather pay to get something better.
To a fast food addicted fat ass a Big Mac is priceless and therefore the person who makes it is as important to him as a person standing next to him who knows CPR. It’s not what someone here thinks it’s worth but what McDonald’s believes it’s worth and whether or not they can afford it.
It’s about what a McDonald’s customer thinks McDonald’s food is worth and whether or not he will pay more for it. A large order of fries probably uses 10 cents worth of potatoes if you were to buy it at the supermarket yet people see no problem paying a couple of dollars for it.
The labor that McDonald’s puts into producing that order of fries (which is not much in time nor cost) is worth paying that much extra for. How hard is it to cut up a potato and fry it? Basically someone is paying 2 dollars, or whatever it costs, for someone to cut up and fry a potato; a task which takes a few minutes.
If we converted that to a per hourly rate what would that person be paying for someone to make his fries? Apparently people do put a high value on McDonald’s food. [/quote]
What you just described is basically the market at work, which has determined a Big Mac is worth about a dollar. So the wages to make a Big Mac cannot be that high or there will be no profit.
Also, just a tid bit of interesting information, the materials to make the food actaully accounts for more expense than payroll.
Big Macs are like 3 bucks.
That is my giant contribution to this thread…knowledge of burgers.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is that number of employees including all employees? Not all employees are making min wage so they would not be among those to get a substantial raise. [/quote]
A fair estimate is that doubling the pay rate of the lowest skilled and lowest paid to $15, would cause the need to double the pay of everyone making between $7.25 and $10, 50-70% increase for everyone making between $10-$17 and at least a 10-20% raise for everyone making between $17-22 or so.
[/quote]
Bingo it is called re-redistribution of wealth 
maybe you would see a resurgence of middle class[/quote]
I think you missed the point.
A local newspaper went to one of these protests here in downtown.
17 people were interviewed, 16 of the 17 were local SEIU protesters.
Only 1 was a fast food worker.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I have no problem with this. A TON of things many people take for granted came from private sector unions and strikes. We probably need more strikes in this country, not less. If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
x 2.
Workers solidarity now!
x3
When American labor lost Union Influence , they lost their dog in the fight , we are now spectators
[/quote]
[/quote]
And we all have seen what Unions can do to a city…Yeah they are the best way to go.
I will agree they were needed in the past, but today they are just an organized mob always wanting more, and when they don’t get their way throw a tantrum. They then pull guns on management and beat up scabs. Yeah Unions are your regular stand up citizens.
[/quote]
Other than a labor party (OH MY GAWD COMMUNISM) what option do we have to have a say in policy ?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
But that doesn’t change the fact that when I look back I realize I was underpaid for what I did. [/quote]
How so?
And imagine what your life would be like if you had been paid twice what you were, or some sort of living wage.
(When the reality of the situation is you would never have been hired at that wage with no skill, no experience and as a teen, but that is besides the point.)
[quote] so how can I look down on them for that?
[/quote]
I don’t know what anyone would look down on them for wanting more money.
What they are “being looked down upon for” is this kooky notion that people should just get magic raises, and act like all the problems would be solved.
For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is that number of employees including all employees? Not all employees are making min wage so they would not be among those to get a substantial raise. [/quote]
A fair estimate is that doubling the pay rate of the lowest skilled and lowest paid to $15, would cause the need to double the pay of everyone making between $7.25 and $10, 50-70% increase for everyone making between $10-$17 and at least a 10-20% raise for everyone making between $17-22 or so.
[/quote]
Bingo it is called re-redistribution of wealth maybe you would see a resurgence of middle class[/quote]
I think you missed the point. [/quote]
please tell me what point , you think I missed
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Big Macs are like 3 bucks.
That is my giant contribution to this thread…knowledge of burgers.[/quote]
I was about to chime in with that also. That piece of crap burger is $3.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
$15 an hour? Okay, let’s crunch some numbers.
McDonalds made 5.5 BILLION dollars profit last year. With that, they can afford to give their employees a raise of:
$5,500,000,000/1,800,000 employees=$3,055/employee-year
$3,500/employee/2080 hr/year = $1.47/hr per employee.
Nowhere near the 2x raise they’re asking for, and that’s assuming McDonalds is willing to drain the entirety of their profit to give their employees raises.
It’s worth mentioning that almost nobody works 40 hours a week as a McDonalds employee and this excludes much of upper management pay and payment to their workers in other countries. I’d factor these in too, but it’s already clear that McDonalds simply doesn’t have the profit margins to double the pay of their employees, even if they’re willing to make ZERO PROFIT.
You can always argue that McDonalds could simply raise the prices of their food in order to pay their employees more, but you’d be a fucking idiot. If Mcdonalds could make more money by charging more, they already would be. If you charge more, people buy less, you make less money, people lose their jobs.
Of course, if all the fast-food places raised their prices it could work (depending on the inelasticity of demand for fast-food, and how one defines “fast food”), but that would require collusion and extensive legislation establishing enough barriers to entry in order to ensure no new firms hit the market looking to undercut our new burger-cartel.
That’s the trade off; double minimum wage for a fast-food oligopoly.
So, which weighs heavier to the leftist; improving the living standards of unskilled labourers, or fighting crony capitalism?
Problem?
[/quote]
Maybe they would need to do away with the crew at night , the only reason they can afford it is cheap labor . Maybe they do not deserve to be in business . Maybe Ma and Pa could afford to run their burger stand and sell real food and hire people that can live on their wages .
Perfect plan ? no but it is better than the Corporate Fascist program we are presently running
[/quote]
Maybe ma and pa could take down Mcdicks.
We’d need a freer market to find out.[/quote]
They have us tricked into thinking the node of business is the only way we can go and if it wasn’t for them , no one would fill their shoes .
With out one super Walmart there would probably be 3 grocery stores , Every McDicks propbably 1/2 to 3/4 ma and pa burger joint . I would throw most other mega sized corp chain in with McDick and Walmart .I am surprised you actually see we are far from a free market
[/quote]
How much growth are ma and pa allowed to have before you start outing them as greedy corporate scum?[/quote]
I would think every small business owner would be aspiring to that. [/quote]
The way to start is to bribe our politicians via campaign contributions . They can fix anything from contracts to environmental regulations to tax rates , AMAZING
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is that number of employees including all employees? Not all employees are making min wage so they would not be among those to get a substantial raise. [/quote]
A fair estimate is that doubling the pay rate of the lowest skilled and lowest paid to $15, would cause the need to double the pay of everyone making between $7.25 and $10, 50-70% increase for everyone making between $10-$17 and at least a 10-20% raise for everyone making between $17-22 or so.
[/quote]
Bingo it is called re-redistribution of wealth maybe you would see a resurgence of middle class[/quote]
I think you missed the point. [/quote]
please tell me what point , you think I missed
[/quote]
That at every level payroll costs will go up, which is impossible.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
$15 an hour? Okay, let’s crunch some numbers.
McDonalds made 5.5 BILLION dollars profit last year. With that, they can afford to give their employees a raise of:
$5,500,000,000/1,800,000 employees=$3,055/employee-year
$3,500/employee/2080 hr/year = $1.47/hr per employee.
Nowhere near the 2x raise they’re asking for, and that’s assuming McDonalds is willing to drain the entirety of their profit to give their employees raises.
It’s worth mentioning that almost nobody works 40 hours a week as a McDonalds employee and this excludes much of upper management pay and payment to their workers in other countries. I’d factor these in too, but it’s already clear that McDonalds simply doesn’t have the profit margins to double the pay of their employees, even if they’re willing to make ZERO PROFIT.
You can always argue that McDonalds could simply raise the prices of their food in order to pay their employees more, but you’d be a fucking idiot. If Mcdonalds could make more money by charging more, they already would be. If you charge more, people buy less, you make less money, people lose their jobs.
Of course, if all the fast-food places raised their prices it could work (depending on the inelasticity of demand for fast-food, and how one defines “fast food”), but that would require collusion and extensive legislation establishing enough barriers to entry in order to ensure no new firms hit the market looking to undercut our new burger-cartel.
That’s the trade off; double minimum wage for a fast-food oligopoly.
So, which weighs heavier to the leftist; improving the living standards of unskilled labourers, or fighting crony capitalism?
Problem?
[/quote]
Maybe they would need to do away with the crew at night , the only reason they can afford it is cheap labor . Maybe they do not deserve to be in business . Maybe Ma and Pa could afford to run their burger stand and sell real food and hire people that can live on their wages .
Perfect plan ? no but it is better than the Corporate Fascist program we are presently running
[/quote]
Maybe ma and pa could take down Mcdicks.
We’d need a freer market to find out.[/quote]
They have us tricked into thinking the node of business is the only way we can go and if it wasn’t for them , no one would fill their shoes .
With out one super Walmart there would probably be 3 grocery stores , Every McDicks propbably 1/2 to 3/4 ma and pa burger joint . I would throw most other mega sized corp chain in with McDick and Walmart .I am surprised you actually see we are far from a free market
[/quote]
How much growth are ma and pa allowed to have before you start outing them as greedy corporate scum?[/quote]
I would think every small business owner would be aspiring to that. [/quote]
The way to start is to bribe our politicians via campaign contributions . They can fix anything from contracts to environmental regulations to tax rates , AMAZING
[/quote]
Unions and the Democratic Party. Pitt you actually hit the nail on the head with that one.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I have no problem with this. A TON of things many people take for granted came from private sector unions and strikes. We probably need more strikes in this country, not less. If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
x 2.
Workers solidarity now!
x3
When American labor lost Union Influence , they lost their dog in the fight , we are now spectators
[/quote]
[/quote]
And we all have seen what Unions can do to a city…Yeah they are the best way to go.
I will agree they were needed in the past, but today they are just an organized mob always wanting more, and when they don’t get their way throw a tantrum. They then pull guns on management and beat up scabs. Yeah Unions are your regular stand up citizens.
[/quote]
Other than a labor party (OH MY GAWD COMMUNISM) what option do we have to have a say in policy ?[/quote]
Labor Unions do not care about policy. They only care about getting more dues.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I have no problem with this. A TON of things many people take for granted came from private sector unions and strikes. We probably need more strikes in this country, not less. If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
x 2.
Workers solidarity now!
[/quote]
“I can’t earn my way under my own efforts and accord, I need everyone else’s productivity to subsidize my own.”
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is that number of employees including all employees? Not all employees are making min wage so they would not be among those to get a substantial raise. [/quote]
A fair estimate is that doubling the pay rate of the lowest skilled and lowest paid to $15, would cause the need to double the pay of everyone making between $7.25 and $10, 50-70% increase for everyone making between $10-$17 and at least a 10-20% raise for everyone making between $17-22 or so.
[/quote]
Bingo it is called re-redistribution of wealth maybe you would see a resurgence of middle class[/quote]
I think you missed the point. [/quote]
Without question.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I have no problem with this. A TON of things many people take for granted came from private sector unions and strikes. We probably need more strikes in this country, not less. If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
x 2.
Workers solidarity now!
x3
When American labor lost Union Influence , they lost their dog in the fight , we are now spectators
[/quote]
[/quote]
And we all have seen what Unions can do to a city…Yeah they are the best way to go.
I will agree they were needed in the past, but today they are just an organized mob always wanting more, and when they don’t get their way throw a tantrum. They then pull guns on management and beat up scabs. Yeah Unions are your regular stand up citizens.
[/quote]
Other than a labor party (OH MY GAWD COMMUNISM) what option do we have to have a say in policy ?[/quote]
Labor Unions do not care about policy. They only care about getting more dues.
[/quote]
The average varies from %15 to %27 more , that union makes over non union . That is free enterprise . So they want dues ?
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
$15 an hour? Okay, let’s crunch some numbers.
McDonalds made 5.5 BILLION dollars profit last year. With that, they can afford to give their employees a raise of:
$5,500,000,000/1,800,000 employees=$3,055/employee-year
$3,500/employee/2080 hr/year = $1.47/hr per employee.
Nowhere near the 2x raise they’re asking for, and that’s assuming McDonalds is willing to drain the entirety of their profit to give their employees raises.
It’s worth mentioning that almost nobody works 40 hours a week as a McDonalds employee and this excludes much of upper management pay and payment to their workers in other countries. I’d factor these in too, but it’s already clear that McDonalds simply doesn’t have the profit margins to double the pay of their employees, even if they’re willing to make ZERO PROFIT.
You can always argue that McDonalds could simply raise the prices of their food in order to pay their employees more, but you’d be a fucking idiot. If Mcdonalds could make more money by charging more, they already would be. If you charge more, people buy less, you make less money, people lose their jobs.
Of course, if all the fast-food places raised their prices it could work (depending on the inelasticity of demand for fast-food, and how one defines “fast food”), but that would require collusion and extensive legislation establishing enough barriers to entry in order to ensure no new firms hit the market looking to undercut our new burger-cartel.
That’s the trade off; double minimum wage for a fast-food oligopoly.
So, which weighs heavier to the leftist; improving the living standards of unskilled labourers, or fighting crony capitalism?
Problem?
[/quote]
Maybe they would need to do away with the crew at night , the only reason they can afford it is cheap labor . Maybe they do not deserve to be in business . Maybe Ma and Pa could afford to run their burger stand and sell real food and hire people that can live on their wages .
Perfect plan ? no but it is better than the Corporate Fascist program we are presently running
[/quote]
Maybe ma and pa could take down Mcdicks.
We’d need a freer market to find out.[/quote]
They have us tricked into thinking the node of business is the only way we can go and if it wasn’t for them , no one would fill their shoes .
With out one super Walmart there would probably be 3 grocery stores , Every McDicks propbably 1/2 to 3/4 ma and pa burger joint . I would throw most other mega sized corp chain in with McDick and Walmart .I am surprised you actually see we are far from a free market
[/quote]
How much growth are ma and pa allowed to have before you start outing them as greedy corporate scum?[/quote]
I would think every small business owner would be aspiring to that. [/quote]
The way to start is to bribe our politicians via campaign contributions . They can fix anything from contracts to environmental regulations to tax rates , AMAZING
[/quote]
Unions and the Democratic Party. Pitt you actually hit the nail on the head with that one.
[/quote]
The giant elephant in the room here is that the republicans do the same shit. Why do they do it? Because our government has too much power.
The problem with statists is they think giving the government more power is the solution. Or worse yet a “labor union” which is no different than those evil corporations in regard to the government.
There is no logical way to reconcile this contradictory situation, so they either leave statist ideology, remain ignorant of it, or pretend.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I have no problem with this. A TON of things many people take for granted came from private sector unions and strikes. We probably need more strikes in this country, not less. If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
x 2.
Workers solidarity now!
[/quote]
“I can’t earn my way under my own efforts and accord, I need everyone else’s productivity to subsidize my own.”
[/quote]
no , your interest can not compete with the interest of big business in the realm of Washington. Or I should say blue collar workers.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I have no problem with this. A TON of things many people take for granted came from private sector unions and strikes. We probably need more strikes in this country, not less. If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
x 2.
Workers solidarity now!
x3
When American labor lost Union Influence , they lost their dog in the fight , we are now spectators
[/quote]
[/quote]
And we all have seen what Unions can do to a city…Yeah they are the best way to go.
I will agree they were needed in the past, but today they are just an organized mob always wanting more, and when they don’t get their way throw a tantrum. They then pull guns on management and beat up scabs. Yeah Unions are your regular stand up citizens.
[/quote]
Other than a labor party (OH MY GAWD COMMUNISM) what option do we have to have a say in policy ?[/quote]
Labor Unions do not care about policy. They only care about getting more dues.
[/quote]
The average varies from %15 to %27 more , that union makes over non union . That is free enterprise . So they want dues ?[/quote]
You realize that is why many businesses are flooding to non-union states like ours…right?
Thanks for all the jobs!!
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
And we all have seen what Unions can do to a city…Yeah they are the best way to go.
I will agree they were needed in the past, but today they are just an organized mob always wanting more, and when they don’t get their way throw a tantrum. They then pull guns on management and beat up scabs. Yeah Unions are your regular stand up citizens.
[/quote]
Why were unions needed in the past? If they were needed then, then they are surely needed now.