The best paid Fast Food workers in America are the ones in Costco,
15+ an hour, full health benefits and time and a half on Sundays.
Costco has a Liberal Philosophical bent, contributed
to the Obama elections, and has grown overall as a business about 40%
in the last 5 years regardless of the bad economy…When you treat your
Employees like fuckin’ Human Beings and you take care of them, good things happen.
Ultimately this strike does not matter. All the McDonalds employees that strike are easily replaced by entry level workers that would take minimum wage while they are in school, trying to get by as a high school dropout, or someone that got laid off and is trying to make ends meet while they look for a better job. What leverage do they have??
EDIT: But this is America, and they have every right to protest.
It’s ridiculous and the free market will not allow it. It’s an ugly sense of entitlement. As others have said, either go to school for something better or move up in the company.
At the rate the government is printing money, $15 an hour will soon have the exact same worth as the current minimum.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
When did it become a company’s responsibility to provide a “living wage”? Why would anyone expect them to pay more than they have to in order to get capable employees? If people didn’t like the pay, why did they agree to work there in the first place?[/quote]
Exactly…they are free to look for another job elsewhere.
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class
So they want to make almost as much as when I started at working for department of corrections. Flipping burgers should pay as much as dealing with inmates and making sure they aren’t stabbing each other. Sounds about right.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
So they want to make almost as much as when I started at working for department of corrections. Flipping burgers should pay as much as dealing with inmates and making sure they aren’t stabbing each other. Sounds about right. [/quote]
I was making $17 an hour straight out of the military. I only got the job (normally needed a degree) because of my NCO experience. Not to mention the fact that I probably made < than $15 as an NCO.
But $15 to open a bag of pre-cut french fries, drop them in a vat of boiling oil, pressing a button, and then removing the fries should be worth $15 an hour, lol…
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class[/quote]
Why don’t you give us the Cliff’s notes if you’re a subject matter expert?
I’d also like to point out that the ones in control of the US’s central reserve banking system are mostly PhD economists, and the while the verdict is still out on whether their policies are effective, most indicators are pointing to no.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
The sad thing is all these employees with jobs who make minimum wage end up on government welfare programs, so it ends up coming out of the taxpayer’s pocket.
[/quote]
Min wage has little difference than direct government transfers, when discussing who is paying the costs, except min wage increase hurt the poor more than welfare hurts tax payers.
We all know how welfare works, and know that something like 70% of the income taxes in this country are paid by people who make 100k or more a year. Therefore more welfare, more tax on higher earners.
Increase in min wages means less net jobs, more competition for low skilled labor (as in skilled people taking the job, and teens and dropouts SOL) and price increases from the industry who just had a forced increase in costs (inflation is bad enough with QE, we don’t need the Democrats upping it more). These all burden the low wage earner and the people who eat at McD’s for example more than higher wage earners are burdened with taxation. Plus the additional costs are transferred to the WHOLE population, not just high earners through higher unemployment and higher prices. (Socialization of costs to give what amount to welfare albeit not from direct transfer.)
So in the end, someone else is still subsidizing the low skilled labor, and the costs of thos subsidies are spread among many people, however, welfare is likely a better net option than artificial increases in pay, that will likely result in pains for poor people as well.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class[/quote]
Why don’t you give us the Cliff’s notes if you’re a subject matter expert?
[/quote]
Min wage increase is an increase in costs. This increase in costs comes without an increase in productivity. So this means it is a net sunk cost to the company. Every dollar more in wage paid costs the company $1.30 or so… That additional overhead is more sunk costs.
Once the company is forced to increase costs, without letting people go, they are forced to pass those increased costs to consumers through prices. So this means higher prices for the same goods (remember, there is ZERO value added through the increased pay. Earned raises are value added because the person earning it actually earned it by adding value or increasing productivity.) Increase in price for the same goods is inflation.
Fast food workers get paid based on what their job is worth, not what they themselves are worth. If you can’t get by on part time minimum wage, then get another job. If someone feels like they deserve $15 an hour for doing menial tasks, that screams entitlement. Don’t like working fast food? Increase your skills as an individual and get a better job.
As countingbeans said, an increase in wages only increases operating costs without any increase in productivity. That is a terrible business move for easily replaceable jobs.
Try owning a small buisness in this day and age, when the goverment decides to lower some of the ridiculous taxes I have to pay. I will gladly pay my guys more, I wish I could now, as it is I have employies right now that make more at the end of the year in they’rer pokets than I do as the owner. This is the reality of small buisnesses these days, the money that comes in the front door of my gym is taxed 3 times before it’s put in my own acount.
I wish people took small buisness into acount in these discussions, rather than just talking about Wallmart, and Mc Ds. Small buisness are being taxed to death lately, look around there’s none left. I work well over 100 hrs a week, own a sucessful buisness, 600member’s in a 5000sqft facility,( can’t fit anymore member’s) I make way less than 5$ an hour, there’s two sides to this debate.
The goverment needs to stop messing with the economy, stop over taxing small buisness, stop wasting our money, and let free enterprise grow on it’s own. 2cents
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Try owning a small buisness in this day and age, when the goverment decides to lower some of the ridiculous taxes I have to pay. I will gladly pay my guys more, I wish I could now, as it is I have employies right now that make more at the end of the year in they’rer pokets than I do as the owner. This is the reality of small buisnesses these days, the money that comes in the front door of my gym is taxed 3 times before it’s put in my own acount.
I wish people took small buisness into acount in these discussions, rather than just talking about Wallmart, and Mc Ds. Small buisness are being taxed to death lately, look around there’s none left. I work well over 100 hrs a week, own a sucessful buisness, 600member’s in a 5000sqft facility,( can’t fit anymore member’s) I make way less than 5$ an hour, there’s two sides to this debate.
The goverment needs to stop messing with the economy, stop over taxing small buisness, stop wasting our money, and let free enterprise grow on it’s own. 2cents[/quote]
nope, sorry. The government will just make you pay your workers more. That’s only fair.
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Try owning a small buisness in this day and age, when the goverment decides to lower some of the ridiculous taxes I have to pay. I will gladly pay my guys more, I wish I could now, as it is I have employies right now that make more at the end of the year in they’rer pokets than I do as the owner. This is the reality of small buisnesses these days, the money that comes in the front door of my gym is taxed 3 times before it’s put in my own acount.
I wish people took small buisness into acount in these discussions, rather than just talking about Wallmart, and Mc Ds. Small buisness are being taxed to death lately, look around there’s none left. I work well over 100 hrs a week, own a sucessful buisness, 600member’s in a 5000sqft facility,( can’t fit anymore member’s) I make way less than 5$ an hour, there’s two sides to this debate.
The goverment needs to stop messing with the economy, stop over taxing small buisness, stop wasting our money, and let free enterprise grow on it’s own. 2cents[/quote]
This is part of my point. Large corporations own government do some degree, the extent of which is arguable. Small businesses don’t have the resources to lobby and make large campaign contributions. Neither does the average tax payer, or even the middle class tax payer making $100k a year.
People like to think they are middle class, but unless you have some significant wealth including property, a large amount of stocks, and a bunch of liquid assets, you are probably not as middle class as you think you are. This is especially true if you are under 30, and even if you have a good job and modest stock holdings, you are losing ground in this economic environment. Even if kids these days do everything right, and get a little lucky, a modest retirement is probably the best they can do, if they are even that lucky.
The large, public corporations are legally obligated to provide as much profit to their shareholders as possible. Therefore, getting tax breaks, legislation favorable to their bottom line, paying their employees as little as possible, etc. is good business practice.
People are too emotionally invested in their libertarian or free market ideals, to realize that they really aren’t in their best interests. I’m not saying government intervention is the best option, but the middle class is outgunned against powerful corporate interests in a completely free market environment and it is hurting them in the big picture.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class[/quote]
Why don’t you give us the Cliff’s notes if you’re a subject matter expert?
[/quote]
Min wage increase is an increase in costs. This increase in costs comes without an increase in productivity. So this means it is a net sunk cost to the company. Every dollar more in wage paid costs the company $1.30 or so… That additional overhead is more sunk costs.
Once the company is forced to increase costs, without letting people go, they are forced to pass those increased costs to consumers through prices. So this means higher prices for the same goods (remember, there is ZERO value added through the increased pay. Earned raises are value added because the person earning it actually earned it by adding value or increasing productivity.) Increase in price for the same goods is inflation.
[/quote]
Beans I would like your take on this please…
A man named Ron Unz says the increased prices to consumers will not deter people from buying those goods.
Walmart is Americaâ??s largest private employer and 300,000 of its workers have average wages of just $8.75 per hour, forcing many of them to receive food stamps and other government welfare benefits to survive. But if a minimum wage hike boosted their pay to at least $12 per hour, Walmart could cover the costs by a one-time price rise of just 1.1 percent, and the average Walmart shopper would only pay an extra $12.50 per year. Meanwhile, a $12 minimum wage would increase the incomes of Americaâ??s lower-wage work force by a total of over $150 billion each year, shifting those huge sums from the pockets of the sort of people who donâ??t shop at Walmart to those who do. A minimum wage of $12 per hour would be very good for Walmartâ??s business.
This guy is a Conservative by the way.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class[/quote]
Why don’t you give us the Cliff’s notes if you’re a subject matter expert?
[/quote]
Min wage increase is an increase in costs. This increase in costs comes without an increase in productivity. So this means it is a net sunk cost to the company. Every dollar more in wage paid costs the company $1.30 or so… That additional overhead is more sunk costs.
Once the company is forced to increase costs, without letting people go, they are forced to pass those increased costs to consumers through prices. So this means higher prices for the same goods (remember, there is ZERO value added through the increased pay. Earned raises are value added because the person earning it actually earned it by adding value or increasing productivity.) Increase in price for the same goods is inflation.
[/quote]
Beans I would like your take on this please…
A man named Ron Unz says the increased prices to consumers will not deter people from buying those goods.
Walmart is Americaâ??s largest private employer and 300,000 of its workers have average wages of just $8.75 per hour, forcing many of them to receive food stamps and other government welfare benefits to survive. But if a minimum wage hike boosted their pay to at least $12 per hour, Walmart could cover the costs by a one-time price rise of just 1.1 percent, and the average Walmart shopper would only pay an extra $12.50 per year. Meanwhile, a $12 minimum wage would increase the incomes of Americaâ??s lower-wage work force by a total of over $150 billion each year, shifting those huge sums from the pockets of the sort of people who donâ??t shop at Walmart to those who do. A minimum wage of $12 per hour would be very good for Walmartâ??s business.
This guy is a Conservative by the way.[/quote]
If you’re talking a very small increase (1.1%) sure. i think there’s a ceiling though. I don’t care how much Joe the Plumber wants that 52" TV, if the price goods goes up up 5%-10% across the board, he can’t afford it. You can only charge a credit card so much and a limited income runs out quickly.
This is how I look at it, granted I’m probably less educated than most here, but I’ve worked hard to get where I am. If I pay well over 100 grand a year in taxes, to take home around 40 grand, and barely squeek by. If the goverment cut my tax base by even half, I could afford to do alot more, possibly double the size of my club, double the size of my staff, and pump alot more money into the economy. I could afford to train my own employies from scratch, but the goverment does it the other way.
They want to train employies, they want to create social programs, and to get the money to do this, they raise taxes even more, and more. If they just lightened up I believe the economy would grow. There’s lots of enturpreneral (can’t spell) guys like me, that would/could do alot more, if every time they made a buck 5 bucks didn’t have to go to taxes. My other buisness, framing houses, is basicaly completely underground at this point. I get paid in cash, I pay my guys in cash. My top guy makes 1000$ a week, I’d have to pay him 2000$ a week, if we ran this above board.
There’s just no way, the whole housing industry, atleast in Canada is completely underground. I have 5 guys working for me, thats alot of revenue, but the goverment pushed us all underground. If minumum wage gets pushed to high, you’ll see other industries go the same way. I hate running my buisness this way, but thats the reality. I have to bid on contracts, guys rthat depend on me getting them work. I don’t know, my simple solution is less goverment, stop smothering people, and buisness.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class[/quote]
Why don’t you give us the Cliff’s notes if you’re a subject matter expert?
[/quote]
Min wage increase is an increase in costs. This increase in costs comes without an increase in productivity. So this means it is a net sunk cost to the company. Every dollar more in wage paid costs the company $1.30 or so… That additional overhead is more sunk costs.
Once the company is forced to increase costs, without letting people go, they are forced to pass those increased costs to consumers through prices. So this means higher prices for the same goods (remember, there is ZERO value added through the increased pay. Earned raises are value added because the person earning it actually earned it by adding value or increasing productivity.) Increase in price for the same goods is inflation.
[/quote]
Beans I would like your take on this please…
A man named Ron Unz says the increased prices to consumers will not deter people from buying those goods.
Walmart is Americaâ??s largest private employer and 300,000 of its workers have average wages of just $8.75 per hour, forcing many of them to receive food stamps and other government welfare benefits to survive. But if a minimum wage hike boosted their pay to at least $12 per hour, Walmart could cover the costs by a one-time price rise of just 1.1 percent, and the average Walmart shopper would only pay an extra $12.50 per year. Meanwhile, a $12 minimum wage would increase the incomes of Americaâ??s lower-wage work force by a total of over $150 billion each year, shifting those huge sums from the pockets of the sort of people who donâ??t shop at Walmart to those who do. A minimum wage of $12 per hour would be very good for Walmartâ??s business.
This guy is a Conservative by the way.[/quote]
3 things I would like to address here. There is a lot more, but 2 things right away are a problem with this.
First, those who are currently making $12/hour for a job which most likely requires more skill/experience? What’s the solution here? Raise their wages? Hope they don’t run for the $12/hour job that requires little more than showing up and doing your job? Who do you think will win for those jobs? People with experience and skills. You’ve effectively eliminated the market for no/low skill workers.
Second, unless you can show me these individuals with new found wealth take the money and save/improve their lives over buying new electronics, I highly doubt increasing minimum wage will severely improve their lives. Some? Sure. Majority? I’d put money on it that that would not be the case.
Third, the largest employer for minimum wage workers are not Walmarts or McDonalds, who could probably get away with a higher minimum wage. No, the largest employers are SMALL businesses, who barely scrape by and work all day, every day. Want to put an hourly rate on those people? Hell, when I was a public accountant working 2,500 + CHARGEABLE hours a year plus all my administrative work, I was probably pulling in less than $15/hour.