10% Unemployment

It’s not a trick, you’re just desperately trying to avoid the conclusion you’ve set up for yourself.

Anyway, you drama queen, no one is forcing you “with guns” to pay taxes, either. You’re perfectly free to go to prison.

True, but there’s no reason why the capital involved should be privately owned.

So you’re saying that, in order to avoid giving up my money, I can go to a great deal of trouble?

Well then you’re perfectly free to go to the trouble of moving to avoid taxes. No matter how you spin it, you’re wrong.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

No, fair means equal TO YOU. But this is just one of many competing, equally legitimate ideas of what is fair. Not to mention that “equal” could also be construed to mean equal portions of income.
[/quote]

Fairis not taking from one person who earned it and giving it to another person who did not earn it.

It’s that simple. [/quote]

It’s actually not that simple, because I (and millions of other Americans) do not agree that they earned it.
[/quote]

If someone makes 1 million dollars in their own legitimate business, how did they not “earn” it?

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

It’s not a trick, you’re just desperately trying to avoid the conclusion you’ve set up for yourself.

Anyway, you drama queen, no one is forcing you “with guns” to pay taxes, either. You’re perfectly free to go to prison.

True, but there’s no reason why the capital involved should be privately owned.

So you’re saying that, in order to avoid giving up my money, I can go to a great deal of trouble?

Well then you’re perfectly free to go to the trouble of moving to avoid taxes. No matter how you spin it, you’re wrong.[/quote]

Well yes, in order to stay alive you need to go through some trouble.

Significantly less if you work in your chosen profession and pay others do provide you with food and shelter, but you can easily choose to do it yourself.

You do not even have to move.

It is not as if you are forced to move or to go to jail in order to avoid that, in the case of taxes, that is exactly what you have to do.

Now that may be an insignificant detail to you, but having to say goodbye to your friends and family or be thrown into a cage is at least quite a big deal for some.

[quote]ZEB wrote:If someone makes 1 million dollars in their own legitimate business, how did they not “earn” it?
[/quote]

Well, if they make that money in their own “legitimate business,” then I suppose they did earn it. But you gloss right over the issue with the phrase, “legitimate business.” You simply assume that it is in fact, legitimate.

[quote]orion wrote:Well yes, in order to stay alive you need to go through some trouble.

Significantly less if you work in your chosen profession and pay others do provide you with food and shelter, but you can easily choose to do it yourself.

You do not even have to move.

It is not as if you are forced to move or to go to jail in order to avoid that, in the case of taxes, that is exactly what you have to do.

Now that may be an insignificant detail to you, but having to say goodbye to your friends and family or be thrown into a cage is at least quite a big deal for some.[/quote]

And what would you call digging a garden, planting crops, and cultivating them every day until they come in, since you expect people to do this if they have a problem with private enterprise? Is that not a pretty big deal, especially since you probably still have a day job to work? What am I supposed to do until the crop comes in? Beg? Raise livestock too? What is a person who lives in, for instance, New York city, supposed to do at all? Not many cultivable plots in Manhattan.

Seems to me saying goodbye to your family and friends is of small consequence compared to your alternative. Especially since, if you are to actually do what you are suggesting, you’ll have to bid them goodbye anyway, as you won’t have time to see them, what with all the tilling, planting, fertilizing, and slaughtering you’ll be doing.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:Well yes, in order to stay alive you need to go through some trouble.

Significantly less if you work in your chosen profession and pay others do provide you with food and shelter, but you can easily choose to do it yourself.

You do not even have to move.

It is not as if you are forced to move or to go to jail in order to avoid that, in the case of taxes, that is exactly what you have to do.

Now that may be an insignificant detail to you, but having to say goodbye to your friends and family or be thrown into a cage is at least quite a big deal for some.[/quote]

And what would you call digging a garden, planting crops, and cultivating them every day until they come in, since you expect people to do this if they have a problem with private enterprise? Is that not a pretty big deal, especially since you probably still have a day job to work? What am I supposed to do until the crop comes in? Beg? Raise livestock too? What is a person who lives in, for instance, New York city, supposed to do at all? Not many cultivable plots in Manhattan.

Seems to me saying goodbye to your family and friends is of small consequence compared to your alternative. Especially since, if you are to actually do what you are suggesting, you’ll have to bid them goodbye anyway, as you won’t have time to see them, what with all the tilling, planting, fertilizing, and slaughtering you’ll be doing.[/quote]

That would be terribly inconvenient, yes, and that is what most people did most of their lives before evil capitalism freed them from that toil.

I can name a few other things that are equally annoying, like disease, death, drougths, floods, hail, asteroids and viruses.

Again, take it up with God or the universe, there is noone to blame.

If however someone walks up to me and demands my money at gunpoint I know exactly whom to boame and incidentally, if it is not done by governments it is universally seen as wrong.

And replaced it with toil in poorly ventilated factories, working alongside their children. Why weren’t those trade unions more grateful?

But none of these are a result of the market. You’re dodging.

[quote]If however someone walks up to me and demands my money at gunpoint I know exactly whom to boame and incidentally, if it is not done by governments it is universally seen as wrong.
[/quote]

That’s just it: no one is demanding your money at gunpoint. Go to prison if you want. It’s certainly easier than starting your own farm. While you’re there, see if you have time to address any of the things I wrote.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

And replaced it with toil in poorly ventilated factories, working alongside their children. Why weren’t those trade unions more grateful?

But none of these are a result of the market. You’re dodging.

[quote]If however someone walks up to me and demands my money at gunpoint I know exactly whom to boame and incidentally, if it is not done by governments it is universally seen as wrong.
[/quote]

That’s just it: no one is demanding your money at gunpoint. Go to prison if you want. It’s certainly easier than starting your own farm. While you’re there, see if you have time to address any of the things I wrote.[/quote]

  1. Those laborers were ingredibly grateful, they flocked from all over teh country to work in these factories. Either they knew less about their own circumstances than you do, or they did it because life was easier there.

  2. No they are not. Neither is your need for food and water.

  3. And again, you are equating natural forces with man made violence.

If you honestly cannot see the difference between a loose brick that happens to fall on youre head and me picking up a brick, walking up to you and smashing it over your head, maybe you already were hit by a brick?

Of course they flocked there, you dolt. The government had taken their land to give to the capitalists (so much for “natural” free markets). What else were they to do?

But I am forced to give my money to exploitative companies if I want to eat. I don’t have the option to not support exploitation.

[quote]3) And again, you are equating natural forces with man made violence.

If you honestly cannot see the difference between a loose brick that happens to fall on youre head and me picking up a brick, walking up to you and smashing it over your head, maybe you already were hit by a brick? [/quote]

But again, there is no violence. Go to prison if you want. It’s inconvenient, but it’s not violent. Again, the choice is yours.

Earth to Americans, earth to Americans. Move to Australia, they have a shit load of jobs there.

I hear you can get 80-100k for working in a mine!

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:If someone makes 1 million dollars in their own legitimate business, how did they not “earn” it?
[/quote]

Well, if they make that money in their own “legitimate business,” then I suppose they did earn it. But you gloss right over the issue with the phrase, “legitimate business.” You simply assume that it is in fact, legitimate.
[/quote]

And you assume it’s illegitimate.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Anyway, you drama queen, no one is forcing you “with guns” to pay taxes, either. You’re perfectly free to go to prison. [/quote]

LOL…you see, this is the kind of retarded argumentation that I missed from Ryan. Glad you’re back buddy.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
But again, there is no violence. Go to prison if you want. It’s inconvenient, but it’s not violent. Again, the choice is yours.[/quote]

Okay Ryan, I have to ask…what happens to the guy who doesn’t want to pay taxes or go to prison? What if this guy just wants to live in peace with his family on his land and do neither? Do they not use force to haul his sorry ass of to the klink?

its a good time for a large portion of the population to die off now

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
So what you’re saying is, you’re determined that the government is a robber, but private enterprise is not, even though you basically admit there’s no difference in the situation? I mean, that’s obvious. I just want to hear you say it.[/quote]

I have said no such thing.

You have to go to a company and offer them your money, you have to flee governments so that they do not take it by force.

Companies must offer you something you actually want or need, governments have no such incentive or obligation.
[/quote]

Oh, but you did. For a government not to “rob” you, all you have to do is flee. For a company not to rob you, all you have to do, is get over your physiological need for food and water, clothing, and a place to live. You’re grasping.[/quote]

Make you own clothes, drill a well and grow your own food. Government has the power of life and death. The private sector does not. These are the reasons we must minimize governments power.

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
So what you’re saying is, you’re determined that the government is a robber, but private enterprise is not, even though you basically admit there’s no difference in the situation? I mean, that’s obvious. I just want to hear you say it.[/quote]

I have said no such thing.

You have to go to a company and offer them your money, you have to flee governments so that they do not take it by force.

Companies must offer you something you actually want or need, governments have no such incentive or obligation.
[/quote]

Oh, but you did. For a government not to “rob” you, all you have to do is flee. For a company not to rob you, all you have to do, is get over your physiological need for food and water, clothing, and a place to live. You’re grasping.[/quote]

Make you own clothes, drill a well and grow your own food. Government has the power of life and death. The private sector does not. These are the reasons we must minimize governments power.[/quote]

No, no, no you have it all wrong - We must grow government - of the backs of the productive of course -so that government gets so large it can take care of every man woman and child who refuses to produce. And then when government has all the power and control we the people don’t have to worry about anything because just about every decision we use to make will be made for us. Ahhh a socialist utopia.

LIVEN THE DREAM MAN!

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:If someone makes 1 million dollars in their own legitimate business, how did they not “earn” it?
[/quote]

Well, if they make that money in their own “legitimate business,” then I suppose they did earn it. But you gloss right over the issue with the phrase, “legitimate business.” You simply assume that it is in fact, legitimate.
[/quote]

And you assume it’s illegitimate.[/quote]

Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with the necessity of socialism.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Anyway, you drama queen, no one is forcing you “with guns” to pay taxes, either. You’re perfectly free to go to prison. [/quote]

LOL…you see, this is the kind of retarded argumentation that I missed from Ryan. Glad you’re back buddy.
[/quote]

By all means, explain what you mean. How is it retarded, while Orion is suggesting I start my own farm? What’s the real difference?

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
But again, there is no violence. Go to prison if you want. It’s inconvenient, but it’s not violent. Again, the choice is yours.[/quote]

Okay Ryan, I have to ask…what happens to the guy who doesn’t want to pay taxes or go to prison? What if this guy just wants to live in peace with his family on his land and do neither? Do they not use force to haul his sorry ass of to the klink?
[/quote]

Of course they do, but Orion, going for a daytime Emmy, complains about the “guns pointed at his head.” He paints quite the picture. At the same time, he forgets this same government is what makes his beloved capitalism possible.

And anyway, this whole thing happens in capitalism, not socialism, so I don’t know what you’re complaining at me about. It’s your system.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Anyway, you drama queen, no one is forcing you “with guns” to pay taxes, either. You’re perfectly free to go to prison. [/quote]

LOL…you see, this is the kind of retarded argumentation that I missed from Ryan. Glad you’re back buddy.
[/quote]

By all means, explain what you mean. How is it retarded, while Orion is suggesting I start my own farm? What’s the real difference?[/quote]

Many want to be farmers. Only mentally ill want to go to jail. From your posts you appear to fit the latter category.