Very valid. It’s semantics, but at that point I’d say the goal is the broader base; that lets me keep my theory universal so I can be a proper academic.
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Thanks man. He’ll be fine, hard to convince him that though, he’s a bit of a drama queen.
@simo74 @Koestrizer i’m not totally sold on your reasoning, if i’m honest. Partly because of what @TrainForPain said about opportunity cost. Regardless, i do intend to start doing “some” lower body work.
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My friends who are climbers are big fans of unilateral work
Maybe relatively heavy lunges and split squats might have a better effort/reward ratio?
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Clearly the answer is daily tabata KB front squats. 28 minutes of squats a week: done.
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@anna_5588 you’re probably right, and i’ve thought about it myself. But i do hate them.
@T3hPwnisher Jesus, my knees hurt just reading that. I’ve done daily squats before and it really messed with my knees.
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I find the tabata provides a natural governor. That, and going light and submax in general. I’m the same with daily chins: I’ve done them before and totally blew out my elbows, but I’ve also done them and just got nothing but growth. All a balancing act.
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I did 100 squats a day for a month last August (i think), and was finding even the basic air squats painful towards the end.
That’s too many damn squats, haha. 64-75 is my sweet spot so far.
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I think it was the speed and the ease. They were mostly air squats, so i’d ratchet through them quickly and pay not attention to knee tracking or whatever. I reckon i could do back squats in that volume without issues.
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Going to keep this going a little longer, mainly because it is good conversation and debate.
You say here that the goal is climbing well and I think you also say you want to lose 30lbs to assist with the climbing. Now first let me say I know nothing about climbing beyond the odd indoor climbing session I have done with the kids. From my basic knowledge I would think, strong flexible legs, strong core, strong grip, some arm and back strength would all be components required to be a better climber. Also a good level of conditioning and the single biggest factor for me would be bodyweight, as in lose some weight Simo you is thicc.
So I am keen to understand more your logic of why hitting some heavy squats would not assist with these factors, or maybe the question is, What things do you think will assist you better and be a better use of your time.
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I dunno. Some of this comes off to me like when bodybuilders watch the NFL combine and think it’s a travesty that punters get like 2 reps on the 225# bench. Then I’ll read comments like “that’s just lazy.” It even might be, but it’s still a “who cares?” It doesn’t benefit that dude, at all, to bench. Even if the worst potential negative outcome is that gets one less solid directional punt rep at practice once a week, it was still a poor tradeoff.
I recognize that’s an extreme situation, because we aren’t making our money off this, but that’s just where my head goes.
Now, on a 15th hand, my goals aren’t competitive so I don’t care what conflicts I create in my own training. If I was trying to get good at something, though, I can see where doing some squats might not be a priority for awhile. I think it would be different if he was saying “I want big strong legs, but I just can’t fit squats in because I also want to climb” - that’s a different story. What I think we have here, though, is “I just want to get better at climbing, so why bother squatting?” I think those are two different cases.
Ramble complete!
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I agree with you to a point. But my question then, aimed mostly at @dagill2 but would be good so know your thoughts, is if you were going to train to support the specific goals of lose 30lbs and be a better climber, what would you do.
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Me? I’d probably climb, do pull-ups and rice digs, and some endurance stuff - maybe long bikes or running stairs or something.
But I also really don’t know what it takes to be a good climber, so…
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I think we might be talking at cross purposes here slightly, but this is a useful exercise so thank you. I think some, limited, heavy squatting would be useful, but a fairly low priority. The main reasons i haven’t is partly the opportunity cost, and partly because my gym time is 4:30am and i don’t have the warm up time or mental energy to do heavy squats at that time in the morning.
Because this is a useful exercise, these are the non-technique attributes i believe are useful to climbing, in order of priority:
1 - Grip strength, specifically contact strength
2 - Core strength
3 - Weight
4 - Pushing strength
5 - Isometric Pulling strength
6 - Conditioning
7 - Explosiveness for jumpy stuff
8 - Hamstring strength for heel hooks
9 - Single leg strength for rock overs
I’m not totally sold on the specific order here, depending on what style of climbing you do the most, for example i’ve probably over rated pushing because i’ve done a lot of compression style problems recently. Keeping it on topic though, as long as you have strong enough quads to do unstable single leg squats, big legs become a disadvantage really quick.
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Thanks @dagill2 that is a great list and looks like it could form the basis for an interesting training plan. Maybe think about an A B split of those focuses and then just rotate them though the week. If you can do 3 days do A B A if you have time for 4 sessions then add another B. You get the idea. Doing it this way means that you can be flexible in terms of number of sessions a week depending on other life factors.
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@simo74 i’ll get back to this, busy day.
Fun for this morning:
2 hours bouldering
Bit of a rush today, but some good routes here.
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Work for tonight:
Deadlift:
5 x 5 @ 140kg
Front squat:
5 x 5 @ 80kg
Leg press: some
Leg curl: some
Ab machine: some
Notes:
- Went in with no plan and little energy. It’s been a long day.
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Fun for today:
1 hour bouldering
Roastingly hot and cut myself up pretty early so i was having to climb taped up. Didn’t do anything very impressive.
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Coming back to this, i think you’re right in that i haven’t really thought about a structured, focussed training plan, it’s all kind if evolved organically around what i want to do on the day with some justification tagged on the end. I think i should probably sit down and make a more solid plan that makes sure i’m actually hitting all my priorities appropriately, both on the climbing wall and off it. I’ve definitely got some bits right, by chance, but i’m confident i’m also taking the lazy route in some other areas.
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Fun for today:
3 hours bouldering.
Fairly slow pace, chatting and chilling in between, it was a million degrees in there today. Sent some awesome problems though, and found the endurance board, which looks like it could be a staple of my sessions from here on in.
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