1 Year Lifting - No Results

Training
41

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

We’re mostly splitting hairs here, but I took it as an implicit part of advising that he not gain any more fat. If he lifted for a year with no progress, it is probably unlikely that he’s going to get stronger without putting a bit of fat on.

But yes, we’re all saying the same thing. Work smart. Work hard. Improve diet. Nothing but good things will come.

[/quote]

Maybe I should have posted something about training as well, I just wanted to realllllly emphasize the fat loss thing. But yes, lifting is a good idea. Of course I’m going to advocate lifting, I’m a powerlifter, lol. My main point was that the previous poster had indicated the OP needs to get even fatter than he is now. That’s absurd, and I don’t know how anyone would come to that conclusion.

The OP can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, given his current physique. His diet and training are probably both terrible, but everything will be easier if he figures out diet first.

I definitely approach lifting from the standpoint that you can get very, very strong while staying moderately lean, year-round. Plenty of lifters do it these days. The top powerlifters in the world that are sub-250 bodyweight are all in great condition. Dan Green, Richard Hawthorne, Jesse Norris are all great examples of this.[/quote]

Okay yes so we are definitely splitting hairs. You are right and your advice is definitely on-point. That said…

I’ll go so far as to suggest that focusing on strength at the expense of added fat is not the worst thing either. It is definitely not the best thing, but he is both fat and weak right now.

Fat and strong is an improvement, and I can personally attest to the wonders that physical strength does for the fat man’s mental strength. Fixing that mental weakness, depending on circumstances, could be the key to unlocking the whole thing.

This, of course, still assumes a reasonable diet. Gaining 50 pounds to get his squat up to 315x5 would be a disastrous outcome. Gaining a few pounds to do that could be a favorable long-term tradeoff for someone who has struggled to find success with weights IF it results in the confidence boost and some real momentum with the long-term process.

Of course, if he dials everything in and gets up to a 315x5 squat and into a size 34 jeans then we should have a party.

42

I am inclined to agree that fat and strong is better than fat and weak, and that gaining weight while adding strength isn’t the worst thing, but I am also inclined to agree that, given the choice between drinking drano and bleach, bleach is the safer choice.

I do not see any reason why this trainee should gain weight, nor be ok with gaining weight, on his way to getting stronger. I do not feel that doing so will benefit him. If he was an underweight kid with a 26" waist, I would tell him to eat until he explodes, but right now, he should be losing weight and getting stronger to meet his goals.

43

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I am inclined to agree that fat and strong is better than fat and weak, and that gaining weight while adding strength isn’t the worst thing, but I am also inclined to agree that, given the choice between drinking drano and bleach, bleach is the safer choice.

I do not see any reason why this trainee should gain weight, nor be ok with gaining weight, on his way to getting stronger. I do not feel that doing so will benefit him. If he was an underweight kid with a 26" waist, I would tell him to eat until he explodes, but right now, he should be losing weight and getting stronger to meet his goals. [/quote]

I think that is a ridiculous analogy. Getting stronger today does not stop you from getting leaner tomorrow. I am not discouraging him or anyone from aiming as high as they can. I am saying that there is nothing wrong with aiming a bit lower, as long as you dont take your eye too far off of the prize of fat loss.

Lets say OP gains 5 pounds on his way to 315x5. During this time he begins to understand the process of gaining strength on an intuitive and visceral level. He just did something he did could not do before and has just directly observed the mechanisms that caused him to get stronger and yes, get a little fatter.

Is OP a failure because he did not manage to shed fat on his way to 315x5? Of course not.

He looks better. Feels better. Feels stronger. Is stronger. Knows how to get stronger.

One piece of the puzzle has been solved, and OP is riding much higher than when he started this thread. And when you are riding high the things that looked impossible before can suddenly be within reach. He can now begin going after fat loss from a stronger position, both physically and mentally.

Thats not drinking bleach. That is a great way for people who are both fat and weak to start un-fucking themselves.

OP has to get to work first, but he should be proud of any form of progress. As long as he does not give up and continues to build on it, he will be doing great.

And for fat people, not giving up may very well be the most important element for success. Giving people the idea that anything less than optimal progress is equivalent to drinking bleach is pure nonsense. Many, many fat people do give up for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is their inability to meet their expectations that have been shaped by people who have been highly successful.

44

I feel we will have to agree to disagree.

45

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I am inclined to agree that fat and strong is better than fat and weak, and that gaining weight while adding strength isn’t the worst thing, but I am also inclined to agree that, given the choice between drinking drano and bleach, bleach is the safer choice.

I do not see any reason why this trainee should gain weight, nor be ok with gaining weight, on his way to getting stronger. I do not feel that doing so will benefit him. If he was an underweight kid with a 26" waist, I would tell him to eat until he explodes, but right now, he should be losing weight and getting stronger to meet his goals. [/quote]

I think that is a ridiculous analogy. Getting stronger today does not stop you from getting leaner tomorrow. I am not discouraging him or anyone from aiming as high as they can. I am saying that there is nothing wrong with aiming a bit lower, as long as you dont take your eye too far off of the prize of fat loss.

Lets say OP gains 5 pounds on his way to 315x5. During this time he begins to understand the process of gaining strength on an intuitive and visceral level. He just did something he did could not do before and has just directly observed the mechanisms that caused him to get stronger and yes, get a little fatter.

Is OP a failure because he did not manage to shed fat on his way to 315x5? Of course not.

He looks better. Feels better. Feels stronger. Is stronger. Knows how to get stronger.

One piece of the puzzle has been solved, and OP is riding much higher than when he started this thread. And when you are riding high the things that looked impossible before can suddenly be within reach. He can now begin going after fat loss from a stronger position, both physically and mentally.

Thats not drinking bleach. That is a great way for people who are both fat and weak to start un-fucking themselves.

OP has to get to work first, but he should be proud of any form of progress. As long as he does not give up and continues to build on it, he will be doing great.

And for fat people, not giving up may very well be the most important element for success. Giving people the idea that anything less than optimal progress is equivalent to drinking bleach is pure nonsense. Many, many fat people do give up for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is their inability to meet their expectations that have been shaped by people who have been highly successful.
[/quote]

I commend your approach, but the OP has been lifting for a year and hasn’t been able to lose any weight, or frankly, lift any substantial weight. And at 22% bf, it’s not like he’s trying to lose the last 5lbs to hit his six pack either.

It’s good to be nice to people, but some people need to hear the flat out truth.
The OP is fat, weak, and confused as shit. He started skinny fat, and graduated to just being fat because he was ‘bulking’. Leaving out solid advice at the expense of not sounding ‘discouraging’ is only going to perpetuate his insignificant hours at the gym/food in the kitchen. What will encourage him and many others are tangible results.

46

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
The OP is fat, weak, and confused as shit. He started skinny fat, and graduated to just being fat because he was ‘bulking’.[/quote]

This indicates a problem with his attitude and perception. Someone overbulking or eating a shitty diet would show at least a hint of begginer gains in muscle if he pushed himself hard for a year.

[quote]Ronaldinho92 wrote:
I really work hard in gym and maybe the diet is the problem and thats what im trying to figure
So either help or just dont post
Thanks[/quote]

The problem with the OP is that he believes he works hard in the gym. His pics prove otherwise.

And since he makes this claim, I wouldn’t trust him if he says he’s putting in the effort to stick to a proper diet.

OP, the sooner you admit this to yourself and take the necessary steps to remedy this, the faster you will start seeing results.

47

[quote][quote]Ronaldinho92 wrote:
I really work hard in gym and maybe the diet is the problem and thats what im trying to figure
So either help or just dont post
Thanks[/quote]

The problem with the OP is that he believes he works hard in the gym. His pics prove otherwise.
[/quote]

I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head here.

I would also say that this is an easy trap to fall into, most people in most gyms I’ve been to are fat or weak and put in very little effort, and it is therefore very easy for someone with limited experience to be the hardest working/strongest/biggest in the gym. If you don’t spend time around people who are motivated and working hard, how do you know what it looks like?

48

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote][quote]Ronaldinho92 wrote:
I really work hard in gym and maybe the diet is the problem and thats what im trying to figure
So either help or just dont post
Thanks[/quote]

The problem with the OP is that he believes he works hard in the gym. His pics prove otherwise.
[/quote]

I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head here.

I would also say that this is an easy trap to fall into, most people in most gyms I’ve been to are fat or weak and put in very little effort, and it is therefore very easy for someone with limited experience to be the hardest working/strongest/biggest in the gym. If you don’t spend time around people who are motivated and working hard, how do you know what it looks like?[/quote]

Yup. And I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.

49

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote][quote]Ronaldinho92 wrote:
I really work hard in gym and maybe the diet is the problem and thats what im trying to figure
So either help or just dont post
Thanks[/quote]

The problem with the OP is that he believes he works hard in the gym. His pics prove otherwise.
[/quote]

I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head here.

I would also say that this is an easy trap to fall into, most people in most gyms I’ve been to are fat or weak and put in very little effort, and it is therefore very easy for someone with limited experience to be the hardest working/strongest/biggest in the gym. If you don’t spend time around people who are motivated and working hard, how do you know what it looks like?[/quote]

Yup. And I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.[/quote]

After they hit a PR on the bicep curl machine

50

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.[/quote]

Many probably are, but that’s not the goal here. I think Wendler said it’s better to ask what they’ve accomplished, and I think many folks are happy with staying away from the doctor.

51

[quote]dagill2 wrote:
I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head here.

I would also say that this is an easy trap to fall into, most people in most gyms I’ve been to are fat or weak and put in very little effort, and it is therefore very easy for someone with limited experience to be the hardest working/strongest/biggest in the gym. If you don’t spend time around people who are motivated and working hard, how do you know what it looks like?[/quote]

I find that, in many cases, the is the result of the declining amount of emphasis being placed on childhood sports. It used to just be accepted that you played at least ONE sport growing up, and even I as an uncoordinated fat kid swam, played football, soccer, ice hockey did Tae Kwon Do, wrestled, and probably some other activities I’ve forgotten. I was bad at just about all of them, but at least learned what it felt like when I really pushed myself versus just phoning it in. A lot of folks coming into adulthood now never really got to learn those feelings.

52

How long do you rest between sets?

53

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.[/quote]

Many probably are, but that’s not the goal here. I think Wendler said it’s better to ask what they’ve accomplished, and I think many folks are happy with staying away from the doctor.[/quote]

We are speaking of these people and their perception of hard work, not of those who are “works in progress” at the moment who actual do work their asses off towards achieving their end goals. It’s easy to spot the difference.

Also, the OP’s goal is to develop strength and a good physique, not simply staying away from the doctor. If the latter was his goal, the advice given and expected standard of effort would be different.

54

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.[/quote]

Many probably are, but that’s not the goal here. I think Wendler said it’s better to ask what they’ve accomplished, and I think many folks are happy with staying away from the doctor.[/quote]

We are speaking of these people and their perception of hard work, not of those who are “works in progress” at the moment who actual do work their asses off towards achieving their end goals. It’s easy to spot the difference.

Also, the OP’s goal is to develop strength and a good physique, not simply staying away from the doctor. If the latter was his goal, the advice given and expected standard of effort would be different.[/quote]

I will add that my conception of “hard work” includes the effort needed to learn how to lift safely and intelligently. Shit can always happen, probably will happen if you do this long enough, but intense effort and staying away from the doctor need not be mutually exclusive.

55

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.[/quote]

Many probably are, but that’s not the goal here. I think Wendler said it’s better to ask what they’ve accomplished, and I think many folks are happy with staying away from the doctor.[/quote]

We are speaking of these people and their perception of hard work, not of those who are “works in progress” at the moment who actual do work their asses off towards achieving their end goals. It’s easy to spot the difference.

Also, the OP’s goal is to develop strength and a good physique, not simply staying away from the doctor. If the latter was his goal, the advice given and expected standard of effort would be different.[/quote]

I will add that my conception of “hard work” includes the effort needed to learn how to lift safely and intelligently. Shit can always happen, probably will happen if you do this long enough, but intense effort and staying away from the doctor need not be mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

I interpreted “staying away from the doctor” as training mainly for health benefits lol.

56

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I’ll wager that if you ask every single one of them if they think they’re working hard, the answer will be yes.[/quote]

Many probably are, but that’s not the goal here. I think Wendler said it’s better to ask what they’ve accomplished, and I think many folks are happy with staying away from the doctor.[/quote]

We are speaking of these people and their perception of hard work, not of those who are “works in progress” at the moment who actual do work their asses off towards achieving their end goals. It’s easy to spot the difference.

Also, the OP’s goal is to develop strength and a good physique, not simply staying away from the doctor. If the latter was his goal, the advice given and expected standard of effort would be different.[/quote]

I will add that my conception of “hard work” includes the effort needed to learn how to lift safely and intelligently. Shit can always happen, probably will happen if you do this long enough, but intense effort and staying away from the doctor need not be mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

I interpreted “staying away from the doctor” as training mainly for health benefits lol.[/quote]

Yeah I was thinking of crossfit fail videos when I wrote that.

57

Hi, good advice on this thread.

Don’t want to make a new thread out of it but kind of have the same and not so same problem. Been on 5/3/1 for I guess the last 3 years or so. NOT ripping the program. Made very consistent strenght gains and some more. Got bigger too from what people tell me (I look at myself every day, I don’t notice :p). But… I fluctuate between 90/95 kgs, kinda like never above or below.

The whole diet thing kinda alludes me but would like to see where that gets me (I just eat when hungry + regular meals). And would like to see what that gets me in terms of progress. BF% I am guessing somewhere around 20% I guess.

I am loving the link posted earlier about ‘the simple diet’. Is there something like a diet 531 for a simpleton who needs stuff in an excel format or just a very condensed how to manual :wink: (anyone doing 531 know what I am talking about ;)). Or maybe some more definitive sites/resources that to up to date on that stuff?

58

In the 531 book, Wendler talks about diet in 6 steps… essentially, get adequate protein, eat regularly/consistently, eat carbs and fats…

You don’t really need to be up to date.

If you mean you want someone telling you exactly what to eat, you may get it from us, but it’d be the same thing every meal. If you want someone to plan out a week’s meals, hire someone. Hell, I’ll do it and even put it in excel for you… you couldn’t get around measuring your portions some way or another.

59

I dunno. Meat/eggs/milk every meal, vegetables most/all meals, and starchy carbs here and there. Adjust quantities and number of meals based on the direction you want to take your weight.

I haven’t found much value in getting a whole lot more complicated than that. If you want to get fancy about things, I’d put that energy toward “optimizing” your peri-workout nutrition. For all the rest of the meals, I think that’s about as complex as it needs to be.

60

1 man island. Good call on the book, will check into it. I don’t even remember it was in there. Been ages since I read the original. Haha, hiring someone would be a bridge too far for me :stuck_out_tongue:

LoRez, yea that’s kind of what I am trying to do. I do eat something before working out as not be out of energy within training. Got to get those reps. Will check out peri-workout nutrition.

Honestly, if a small tweak makes the differene between between resetting every 9 or 11 months it would be great progress I imagine.