[quote]retailboy wrote:
But why not just change esters to E before end of cylce and taper it.[/quote]
Actually, I’m going to do this with my current prop cycle. I plan on adding in 100mgs/w of enth starting 4 weeks from the end of the cycle, then continuing it through the 6 weeks stasis, then taper.
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Joe why haven’t you recovered from the deca standalone cycle? [/quote]
'coz i was stoopid.
[quote]retailboy wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Possible PCT for the bold could be the taper no? It is 50% as aromatizing as test, it is related to test, i know that it turns to dihydroboldenone in the scalp though so the dht meds do not work i have read? maybe someone can confirm or deny?
Joe
I would guess you could do a short stasis/taper with prop, though the EOD injections during a taper would be troublesome enough that I would probably just opt for “standard” PCT.
Not sure if he mentioned this would be a problem.
But why not just change esters to E before end of cylce and taper it.[/quote]
This is hyperthetical really TBH, not about a future cycle i have planned, i am pretty much at the stage where if i were to use one compound it would have to be too high doses to make it reasonable with regard to sides (for my tastes)… But it is something i thought is interesting as i would do bridges with var etc and i’d like to see what else would work ok… 200mg of primo as a bridge would be good IMO. No shutdown off that dose either… But i see alot of young lads asking about dbol or winny only cycles and i wanted a thread to clear those problems up.
If you were going to buy a test just for the sake of tapering, you may as well stack it as well!! It gets rid of the point of doing a cycle with one compound, if you could afford 2 drugs surely you would use two wouldnt you?!
Couldnt the Boldenone be use to taper, or the var, or the winny, or the primobolan… i dont see why not? Same science - the body starts to kick in endo hormone production as exo hormone levels are reduced…? No?
Joe
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
Primo is expensive as fuck… but nice all the same, there is a reason for its expense, the doses that high are good enough to gain ncely and very little in the way of sides. very little, you pay for what you get. I do think it would shut you down at 600mg a week though!
Var… obviously, and winny, yep.
I am very interested in Boldenone, alone and as a stack. Deca is a favourite of mine, if i do a cycle of deca i get some decent gains and it is high quality, little fat/bloat and i look hard if i add proviron and that keeps the pecker up.
But recovery is non-existent.
Joe[/quote]
Joe:
Two questions for you, if I might…
In your opinion, is the shutdown you anticipate from 600mg/wk of primo as severe as the shutdown you have experienced from deca?
When you say your recovery from deca is non-existent, are you referring to your recovery of natty test?
My reason for asking is that I am currently going into my fourth week of pct from an 8 week var/deca/primo cycle . I did not experience any pecker problems on the cycle nor in pct. My boys did shrink to about half size, but they are now just this week beginning to take on their former stature…
iaan
i know its not a aas but does anyone have any experience or info in using insulin(PWO) by itself? trying to learn more about the stuff and was curious.
[quote]Dave1188 wrote:
i know its not a aas but does anyone have any experience or info in using insulin(PWO) by itself? trying to learn more about the stuff and was curious. [/quote]
Dave,
There is a wealth of information about insulin use in this forum. There are more than a few guys who have done it, and there are a number of logs/threads on it as well.
Give the search function a whirl.
[quote]IAAN wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Primo is expensive as fuck… but nice all the same, there is a reason for its expense, the doses that high are good enough to gain ncely and very little in the way of sides. very little, you pay for what you get. I do think it would shut you down at 600mg a week though!
Var… obviously, and winny, yep.
I am very interested in Boldenone, alone and as a stack. Deca is a favourite of mine, if i do a cycle of deca i get some decent gains and it is high quality, little fat/bloat and i look hard if i add proviron and that keeps the pecker up.
But recovery is non-existent.
Joe
Joe:
Two questions for you, if I might…[/quote]
Of course you may![quote]
Absolutely not. I have used primo alone for a mere 8 weeks at a mere 200mgs. It WAS mild, but noticeable, and i got nothing in the way of shutdown. no taper (it tapers naturally nicely) and no ancillaries whatsoever (Proviron would be a lovely match for it) - i know if one was to take 600mg then it is supposed to shut you down, as ALL AAS do… but only because of exo test, nt estrogen nor progerterone.[quote]
Yeah. I’ll be honest. I used Deca alone for the first time - probably 3 years ago. Between then and the last time i had Deca which was about 4 weeks ago, i have run about 4-6 cycles with Deca as the base steroid. Only once with Test. Yes it shut me downeven with good and long dosing protocols with tamoxifen and even HCG at times. Prolactin can/will shut you down hard… The first cycle it took about a month to come back and the second time, longer - I gave a long rest of around 8-10 months between those ccles and the second one was still much harder to recover from. i should have stopped the Deca then and there. It is my own fault, i didnt listen to the signs… but the trouble is, you will not find many men on AAS willing to admit either in forums or IRL that they have as many problems as many of us do.
Most of us have problems, but it isnt spoken of particularly, mostly because it isnt anyone’s business - the thing is, i needed to know those realities as i didnt know what it was exactly, the Deca, Proviron (always kept pecker up), PCT… what?
With every cycle undertaken the endogenous hormone factories take a hit and lose staff till one day they cannot open for business, not there yet i hope. Maybe though. I am 28.
The trouble is also that while test will keep your dick up during a deca cycle, it still shuts you down and that is noticeable when the test wears off. I shall be investing in some caber as i suspect it will help me out a great deal.
Your first deca cycle should be ok dude. It really should, and some guys get no problems in any regard whatsever…[quote]
My reason for asking is that I am currently going into my fourth week of pct from an 8 week var/deca/primo cycle . I did not experience any pecker problems on the cycle nor in pct. My boys did shrink to about half size, but they are now just this week beginning to take on their former stature…
iaan[/quote]
Yeah they will atrophy, but that can and will come back with their re-activation. Like i said, many of my Deca cycles i have had the most outrageous horn, unbelieveable, till about week 5! But if it is your first deca and especially your first cycle, then i am sure you shall be fine.
What PCT did you use? I always used Nolva (till i read the taper here) and it worked while on it, but as soon as i stopped… no.
You’ll be fine.
Joe
I have done quite a few single compound cycles in my training journey, and basically agree with the test only and primo only cycles.
I have done oral only cycles as well, single compound stuff, and find them effective as well unlike some others on this thread. I think one has to define what they mean by a successful cycle.
I’m making a bold assumption here but it appears that those who don’t like oral only cycles are reporting this because their individual gaining goal was not realized. However, one man’s unrealized goal is another’s awesome achievement.
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
I have done quite a few single compound cycles in my training journey, and basically agree with the test only and primo only cycles.
I have done oral only cycles as well, single compound stuff, and find them effective as well unlike some others on this thread. I think one has to define what they mean by a successful cycle.
I’m making a bold assumption here but it appears that those who don’t like oral only cycles are reporting this because their individual gaining goal was not realized. However, one man’s unrealized goal is another’s awesome achievement. [/quote]
These last two posts from Joe, and Buffd Sam, are quite profound in my humble opinion.
Well done gentlemen.
ToneBone
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
IAAN wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Primo is expensive as fuck… but nice all the same, there is a reason for its expense, the doses that high are good enough to gain ncely and very little in the way of sides. very little, you pay for what you get. I do think it would shut you down at 600mg a week though!
Var… obviously, and winny, yep.
I am very interested in Boldenone, alone and as a stack. Deca is a favourite of mine, if i do a cycle of deca i get some decent gains and it is high quality, little fat/bloat and i look hard if i add proviron and that keeps the pecker up.
But recovery is non-existent.
Joe
Joe:
Two questions for you, if I might…
Of course you may!
Absolutely not. I have used primo alone for a mere 8 weeks at a mere 200mgs. It WAS mild, but noticeable, and i got nothing in the way of shutdown. no taper (it tapers naturally nicely) and no ancillaries whatsoever (Proviron would be a lovely match for it) -
I know if one was to take 600mg then it is supposed to shut you down, as ALL AAS do… but only because of exo test, nt estrogen nor progerterone.
Yeah. I’ll be honest. I used Deca alone for the first time - probably 3 years ago. Between then and the last time i had Deca which was about 4 weeks ago, i have run about 4-6 cycles with Deca as the base steroid. Only once with Test.
Yes, it shut me downeven with good and long dosing protocols with tamoxifen and even HCG at times. Prolactin can/will shut you down hard… The first cycle it took about a month to come back and the second time, longer - I gave a long rest of around 8-10 months between those ccles and the second one was still much harder to recover from. i should have stopped the Deca then and there.
It is my own fault, i didnt listen to the signs… but the trouble is, you will not find many men on AAS willing to admit either in forums or IRL that they have as many problems as many of us do.
Most of us have problems, but it isnt spoken of particularly, mostly because it isnt anyone’s business - the thing is, i needed to know those realities as i didnt know what it was exactly, the Deca, Proviron (always kept pecker up), PCT… what?
With every cycle undertaken the endogenous hormone factories take a hit and lose staff till one day they cannot open for business, not there yet i hope. Maybe though. I am 28.
The trouble is also that while test will keep your dick up during a deca cycle, it still shuts you down and that is noticeable when the test wears off. I shall be investing in some caber as i suspect it will help me out a great deal.
Your first deca cycle should be ok dude. It really should, and some guys get no problems in any regard whatsever…
My reason for asking is that I am currently going into my fourth week of pct from an 8 week var/deca/primo cycle . I did not experience any pecker problems on the cycle nor in pct. My boys did shrink to about half size, but they are now just this week beginning to take on their former stature…
iaan
Yeah they will atrophy, but that can and will come back with their re-activation. Like i said, many of my Deca cycles i have had the most outrageous horn, unbelieveable, till about week 5! But if it is your first deca and especially your first cycle, then i am sure you shall be fine.
What PCT did you use? I always used Nolva (till i read the taper here) and it worked while on it, but as soon as i stopped… no.
You’ll be fine.
Joe
[/quote]
JOE:
THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE>>> I AM BEGINNING TO LIKE THE IDEA OF A PRIMO ONLY CYCLE MORE AND MORE…
I AM ON CLOMID/NOLVA FOR MY PCT… 6 WEEKS WORTH BECAUSE OF THE DECA COMPONENT OF MY CYCLE… I START WEEK 4 TOMORROW AND MY CLOMID IS STILL 50mg/day AND MY NOLVA IS DOWN TO 20mg/day.
iaan
I have done the same iaan, and it still fucked me up. BUT it may just be me, and also… it didnt fuck me up in the first cycle.
Primo only would be ok… but a nice one would be primo and var… maybe a little proviron?
primo at doses of 4-600 is supposed to be comparable to Deca at 2-300mg. Not bad for such a mild steroid (on the body)
But expensive, the cheapest i “could imagine” is $138 for 2g, one would want 4g to do 10 weeks at 400mg a week… expensive when there are other more powerful, cheaper compounds.
Joe
[quote]sapasion wrote:
500mg of Masteron is getting up there C. Don’t know many who cross or even approach that level.[/quote]
I did 600 mg/w Masteron with 375 mg/w Test E for a short 4 week cycle recently. By week 4 I had painful pumps. I don’t know how much of it was from the test and how must from Mast but I was seriously packed. It took a good 2 weeks before I could walk the 1/2 mile to work a day comfortably.
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
I have done the same iaan, and it still fucked me up. BUT it may just be me, and also… it didnt fuck me up in the first cycle.
Primo only would be ok… but a nice one would be primo and var… maybe a little proviron?
primo at doses of 4-600 is supposed to be comparable to Deca at 2-300mg. Not bad for such a mild steroid (on the body)
But expensive, the cheapest i “could imagine” is $138 for 2g, one would want 4g to do 10 weeks at 400mg a week… expensive when there are other more powerful, cheaper compounds.
Joe[/quote]
Joe:
I love this thread and your input… It is enlightening…
So…if, for example, I decided to try a primo/var cycle with the proviron (keeping in mind that the gains will NOT be anywhere near what some are looking for who try AAS-I understand and accept this premise), how would you incorporate the proviron into the cycle>>>assuming 10 weeks with the var stopping at the end of week 8? I would assume the proviron would be run at 50mg ed for the same length of time as the var???
iaan
[quote]pickapeck wrote:
sapasion wrote:
500mg of Masteron is getting up there C. Don’t know many who cross or even approach that level.
I did 600 mg/w Masteron with 375 mg/w Test E for a short 4 week cycle recently. By week 4 I had painful pumps. I don’t know how much of it was from the test and how must from Mast but I was seriously packed. It took a good 2 weeks before I could walk the 1/2 mile to work a day comfortably.[/quote]
The pumps you had were from the masteron. Im Running 400mgs of masteron a week along with some prop at 600. The pumps I get now are ridiculous:]. so far im very impressed with masteron. only bad thing Im experiencing with masteron is my hair is thinning like a mother fucker!!
[quote]p-dub wrote:
only bad thing Im experiencing with masteron is my hair is thinning like a mother fucker!![/quote]
So that’s you in your avatar…you’d better get a handle on that quickly, p-dub!
[quote]IAAN wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
I have done the same iaan, and it still fucked me up. BUT it may just be me, and also… it didnt fuck me up in the first cycle.
Primo only would be ok… but a nice one would be primo and var… maybe a little proviron?
primo at doses of 4-600 is supposed to be comparable to Deca at 2-300mg. Not bad for such a mild steroid (on the body)
But expensive, the cheapest i “could imagine” is $138 for 2g, one would want 4g to do 10 weeks at 400mg a week… expensive when there are other more powerful, cheaper compounds.
Joe
Joe:
I love this thread and your input… It is enlightening…
So…if, for example, I decided to try a primo/var cycle with the proviron (keeping in mind that the gains will NOT be anywhere near what some are looking for who try AAS-I understand and accept this premise).
How would you incorporate the proviron into the cycle>>>assuming 10 weeks with the var stopping at the end of week 8? I would assume the proviron would be run at 50mg ed for the same length of time as the var???
iaan
[/quote]
I would run it from the beginning of the Var to the end of the primo - i find proviron is cheap enough. But if not the length of the Var is right enough.
People start proviron after a matter of weeks so it can do its SHBG work properly, but here i am not conviced that it would have that job (No Test?), but it would be a much needed androgen, which would really compliment the Primo and Var, and bring that lovely dry - dorian Yates - grainy look to the body if the BF is low enough.
I have enjoyed this myself with only the use of Deca and Proviron when i was younger… just from having the low %.
Joe
why can’t you use tren alone?
[quote]joeblow wrote:
why can’t you use tren alone?[/quote]
Its not that you can’t but as a former NPC level competitor you should know joe