very good point that is why when you find a doctor willing to do HRT, make sure he or she understands the implications of estrogen and the control methods, also being open to the idea of hcg therapy for maintenance of testicular size is not a bad idea. If you consistently keep your test levels at the high end of normal at some point you will more than likely need to add arimidex to control E2.
I had mine tested about 1 year ago.
Am I looking at the correct number?
its says
Testosterone, Total…1159 H
Test Ref Ranges: Male…241-827 ng/dl
Is this the number you guys are refrencing?
Hey guys, I am 24, and have been experiencing similar problems. Low sex drive, slight fat gain, low energy, and fell very lathargic.
First t-test in the afternoon indicated that i had a level of 193. 193 at my age?! That is very disturbing. Two weeks later my levels in the morning were in the low 300’s.
Free test was normal for both tests. I went to a urologist after these two tests, and he basically dismissed me and told me that there is nothing they can do for me because my levels fell within the “Normal Range.” But I definetly dont feel like I used to. I also feel like my t levels should be much higher due to my age, diet, and exercise regimine.
I am going to give Alpha Male a try. My docs are not going to give me any perscriptions, so I am going to resort to over the counter drugs. I dont know what else to do…
I’m not sure where you live, but keep in mind that the winter months tend to suppress T-levels due to lack of sun light.
I have a buddy of mine who suffers from seasonal affective disorder (SAD) and low sex drive is one of his symptoms. Of course his idiotic MD just chalked it up to regular old clinical depression and put him on Paxil!
If you want to see the effect of sunlight on hormones, just go to your local zoo come spring and watch the magic of nature unfold.
As far as the saliva tests go, they are very accurate but make certain that you are getting it from a reliable laboratory. This type of testing is restricted here in Canada and you can only get it through a qualified health care provider. I believe that some states in the US have the same restrictions while others do not leaving the market open for shady operations. Here are two in the US that I know to reputable:
Good luck man
[quote]Pambele wrote:
-Total Test 390 (Normal 260-1000)
-% Free Test 1.5 (Normal 1.0-2.7)
-Free Test 57.6 (Normal 50.0-210.0)
-Androstenedione 35 (Normal 50-220)[/quote]
What you need to know is those are general ranges for ALL healthy males. THey aren’t age-related. So the younger you are, the more you want to be near the top. 390 on that scale is low unless you’re over 60 years old.
But of bigger concern is the free test. That’s what really matters. Total test isn’t every important. In Free Test, you’re in the BOTTOM 5%. That’s 70-80 yr old level. You definitely have a testosterone problem and should definitely see an educated doctor.
[quote]numberonebg wrote:
First t-test in the afternoon indicated that i had a level of 193. 193 at my age?! That is very disturbing. Two weeks later my levels in the morning were in the low 300’s.
[/quote]
The Afternoon test is silly. Ignore that. But the morning test is still way too low and extremely low for your age. Fact is, most urologists don’t know anything about HRT and won’t put you on test unless you are way below the range. Keep searching for a doctor that specializes in HRT. Do an internet search, make some calls. Find an MD experienced and they will certainly put you on test which you desperately need.
[quote]TC wrote:
If I were to guess, I’d guess that it could have something to do with environmental estrogens that seem to be rampant.
Hell, there’s even evidence of polar bears in the Arctic being born as hemaphrodites because of “estrogen pollution” (my term).
[/quote]
This was the reason I took M.
TC, is there any plan to bring that back, or perhaps a new prostate protection formula?
[quote]TC wrote:
While 390 is clinically “normal.” it may not be normal for you.
That’s the trouble with testing for T.
If we had any brains, we’d all get a baseline done at about 25 and refer to that in subsequent years.
There are endos or GPs out there (although probably few and far between) who’d give you a prescription for some Testosterone.
I’d recommend trying Alpha Male for four weeks. If libido goes up, you know that your lack of libido was probably related to lower than optimal Testosteorne levels.
If it works, you can either continue on it, or seek out pharmaceutical T replacement.
However, having said all that, it is a little odd that it’s so low. Any stress in your life? Do you train balls to the wall all the time? Soy in your diet? Alcohol?
Are you getting nocturnal erections? You could try the old stamp trick. Glue a string of postage stamps around your member before you go to bed.
If the perforations are busted in the morning, you know that you achieved nocturnal wood, which, while certainly not definitive, gives some indication of whether you’re experiencing a pulsatile release of T in the morning.
[/quote]
I’m gonna make a tiny little hijack here. This is one of the many issues that really boils my blood. There is such a stigma against synthetic steroids and testosterone itself that we are missing the boat on the promising therapeutic usages these compunds may have. I mean, gene therapy and what not is awe inspiring stuff, but there’s bound to be good uses for steroids now, and they’re essentially octagenarian technology.
Then there’s the muddling of the “normal” diagnostic figures. Why scientifically educated medical professionals just lower the normative figures when they encounter increasing lower values for free and total test boggles me.
Someday I’ll have to tack the letters “M.D.” behind my name and start fighting the good fight for our favorite hormone…
I saw someone already mentioned alcohol. But what about a few others?
Diet? What kind amount of protein are you taking in? Are you eating cleanly? You’d be surprised that this seeminly little step can help.
Also, tobacco user? That can hamper T too. Its already been said in reports, though I dont recall where, that smoking cigarettes decrease either sex drive or T levels. But same thing in my head.
And dont forget sleep. Without plenty of rest, that wont help matters either.
Though one poster asked if you had too little stimuli, what about too much? If you’re looking at too much porno that will desensitize you. I’m a lone gun on this one, but I would bet this is factual. But thats my opinion.
Bottom line is your T levels suck! Ideal range for training and feeling great is 750 ng/dl to 900 ng/dl. Optimal free in the 100-125 range or more.
Can you feel great at lower levels, sure. But lets face it, most people do not feel great everyday for a multitude of reasons. Low T in my opinion is one of them and one of the biggest factors in depression. After all how happy can you be if your sex drive and competitive spirit is low or non existant.
I have all of my online clients test their T levels as well as IGF-1 and not one has had good levels regardless of age. Men in their 30s at 300ng/dl or below is really low. that is probably what men in their 60s had 50 years ago.
One of my clients is in his 70s and has 450 ng/dl. See where I am going, your levels are actually lower than a man in his 70s. No wonder you feel like shit.
My prediction is that in the years to come everyone will be on steroids. Already, in CA anti-aging doctors readily prescribe T creams and GH injections. I am not saying that it is the way to go, just that people will go that route as people want a quick fix. A new GH drug is already in the works that will be cheaper than injections and very effective.
Bottom line is look at your stress levels as others have indicated. Start with ZMA and Alpha Male and go from there. I have some other ideas that will help and you can send me a PM if you want to ask me any other questons.
How do you know T levels are optimal? Well if you want to bang every hot girl you see and cannot wait to attack your workouts you are going in the right direction.
Mike Mahler
Well, I made an appointment with a urologist in 3 weeks. We’ll see what he says.
If there’s no usefulf input from that guy I will need to make myself a guinea pig and start to try things out on my own.
Best,
P
350 is low for a guy your age. I’m 33 and had my levels done last year after feeling like poop for the 6 months prior. My level was 249 and 241 was the lowest “normal” number. My doctor started test cypionate shots a week later. Levels are now in the 700 range. If your levels are that low, Alpha Male may not help you. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great product, and i’ve used it, but in my opinion you see better results if you test levels are somewhat normal already, then the extra boost Alpha Male gives really kicks it up a notch. It’s not nearly as noticeable when your test is really low.
Also, you didn’t mention your estrodiol levels. If they are high, generally your testosterone will be suppressed. If you can get Arimidex that will help somewhat, but it’s expensive and you need a script. I say find a doctor who has knowledge of how to administer testosterone properly and also manage the estrogen side of the equation. If your current doctor won’t help, get a new one. You shouldn’t have to suffer with low test, which unfortunately, as TC mentioned, has become a vey common problem in the last few years.
To those of you that sent me PM’s, I am having some technical problems. Email me your questions at mahler25@yahoo.com
thanks
[quote]Jason32 wrote:
I’m not sure where you live, but keep in mind that the winter months tend to suppress T-levels due to lack of sun light.
I have a buddy of mine who suffers from seasonal affective disorder (SAD) and low sex drive is one of his symptoms. Of course his idiotic MD just chalked it up to regular old clinical depression and put him on Paxil!
If you want to see the effect of sunlight on hormones, just go to your local zoo come spring and watch the magic of nature unfold.
As far as the saliva tests go, they are very accurate but make certain that you are getting it from a reliable laboratory. This type of testing is restricted here in Canada and you can only get it through a qualified health care provider. I believe that some states in the US have the same restrictions while others do not leaving the market open for shady operations. Here are two in the US that I know to reputable:
Good luck man[/quote]
These two sites seem to require that one be a registered healthcare provider in order to place an order for the testing kit. Is there a way around that where a non-healthcare provider can order?
[quote]Mike Mahler wrote:
How do you know T levels are optimal? Well if you want to bang every hot girl you see and cannot wait to attack your workouts you are going in the right direction.
Mike Mahler
[/quote]
perfect.
Hmmm… I have a pretty decent sex drive; I strive for daily sex with my wife, but I dont think I am always “in it” so to speak.
However I do feel like shit most of the time so I wonder if I should go get things checked out? I guess I just figured feeling run down was part of being 30…
[quote]Snoop wrote:
Hmmm… I have a pretty decent sex drive; I strive for daily sex with my wife, but I dont think I am always “in it” so to speak.
However I do feel like shit most of the time so I wonder if I should go get things checked out? I guess I just figured feeling run down was part of being 30…[/quote]
If you feel like shit most of the time & are run down at 30, you do need to get checked out.
That is extremely young to be having those problems.
For those looking for more information on this topic, check out the following book:
“The Testosterone Syndrome”, Eugene Shippen, MD
Here’s the Amazon link:
Shippen is an internist who specializes in HRT. He discusses most of the information on this thread, including what is “normal” ranges, symptoms of low T, interaction w/Estrogen, and how HRT may affect your prostate.
cruncher
I’m bookmarking this one.
I’ve just turned 22 years old, and sadly, seemed to have lost the sex drive I used to have prior to getting seriously into weightlifting. I was horny as hell when I ate hardly any protein or fat, consumed a high preportion carbs, drank, and did tons of long distance running, while surviving off of < 2000 calories a day.
Now I eat tons of protein, a lot of good fats, cycle my good carbs, do no recreational drugs of any kind, and use HIIT and big compound lifts for my physical activity.
WTF is going on? Do I need Alpha Male at this young of an age?