It was, but 1981 didn’t have a Mentzer whining about it for 20 years and his fanboys still crying about it 40 years later.
For someone that clearly doesnt want to hear or is sick of hearing about it you’ve responded several times on the topic. Says more about you tbh. I started the topic as i simply wanted to know what Dr Ds opinion of that particular contest was. He felt Mike should have won (that must make him a “fanboy” eh?) As did the majority of the competitors that competited that day.
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To those bitchen on about this event still being talked about 42 years on. Many sports have controversial talking points decades on, in football its still debated whether the 1966 world cup winning goal was over the line or Maradona’s hand of god in 86. In Boxing many poor decisions over the years are still be talked about decades on. Same with the many Olympic moments, like Johnson in 88, the 36 Nazi Olympics, East German womans swimmers etc. Films having been made about them, like the Tanya Harding incident at the winter Olympics in 91.
Dont wanna talk about the 80 Olympia, no problem, go talk about something that interests ya rather leaving shitty child like snide remarks.
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It is worthwhile noting that while Jone’s HIT and Mentzer’s HD are often conflated, Jones was quite explicit in early nautilus bulletins that while he had seen some people do better on just once per week training, that anything less frequent than this would simply lead to a detraining effect.
It’s also worth noting that while HIT is commonly painted as these ultra brief ultra low volume routines, the actual programs Jones printed as examples for people are… pretty much exactly what is considered “normal” programming today lol. For example, Jones own routine he printed in the “training with conventional equipment” certainly can’t be accused of being brief or low volume: 27 sets, to be performed in 1 hour and 16 minutes, in the typical jones fashion of go go go. Considering that the average trainee probably spends ~45 minutes training at a fraction of the pace, it is actually quite a long session, and of moderately high volume. It’s all relative I suppose.
I will also add, that while I think Mentzer went off the deep end with his hypothesizing, some of the most rapid gains I’ve ever seen documented in drug free, advanced trainees was with his consolidated routines! (see the Boise project – if it’s still on the internet)
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I don/t remember reading of Jones using or suggesting that kind of volume. Can you remember what article or book this was in ? The most in a HIT / to failure / full body routine I know of was the 20 set workout in my first and favorite Darden book ; High Intensity Bodybuilding … which I thought was way too much done to failure even before I tried it. I understood immediately the idea behind training to failure and knew that training like that with a 20 set , full body routine , a few times a week, was way too much.
I personally had trouble recovering from full body routines even when the total sets were 10-12 but did so and stuck with it for years. I wish I had gotten away from full body routines years before I did.
In this article did it mention how many rest days he had between workouts ? Wow , 27 sets in a full body workout … and while training to failure ?
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With no certainty, I think he is referring to the June, 1970 issue of Muscular Development where Jones peened the article “The Ideal Workout”.
He goes through the ideal workout on Nautilus machines, and repeats it on conventional equipment since the machines were not readily available at that time. Lots of sets, but eight were for forearms, and a couple for grip.
The issue with the Jones workouts were, if you were truly going to positive failure (and were drug free) most if not all would burn out going 2-3 days a week with 8-14 exercises via full body. Training sub failure like the old timers did with full body was a lot more feasible.
I think Mentzer’s original consolidation routines could be okay for some, because they were basically short full body workouts done twice a week.
In the fall of 1993 (about a couple of years before Heavy Duty II - Mind and Body was released), Mentzer gave me his recommended consolidation routine at that time. It was very sensible and had me training every 3-4th day alternating these two workouts. I added an extra calf raise.
Workout A: Squat, Pulldown, Dips, Standing Calf Raise
3-4 days later…
Workout B: Deadlift, Incline press, Curls, Seated Calf Raise
Repeat…
This was a far cry from two compound exercises every 7-14 days he eventually started recommending and I never heard of anyone doing that successfully. Everyone I’ve talked to since the late 90s (on various training forums) lost muscle training so little.
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“training with conventional equipment” in the nautilus bulletin #1. These days I find it’s best just to go straight to arthurjonesexercise, almost all the other HIT related websites are defunct or otherwise not being picked up in search engine results.
The 1981 Olympia was a joke too.
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Absolutely it was.
Totally agree.
And most miss what Mike even said before, that those super sparse workouts were for
- People with horrid recovery that couldn’t gain any strength with more training
- People who were at their size limit and were just trying to maintain.
The last thing Mike did before his death was that video and he did NOT have Markus doing 1 set a month with only 3-4 total exercises. When Mike trained Aaron Baker he had him do a LOT more than the super minimal CR routine. I have no idea why people think doing so little would be BETTER gains, It’s like thinking if you eat less you’ll gain more weight. We have to manage recovery but doing even less is just plain doing less.
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Not entirely true. Mike recommended the 2 set consolidated routine as what everyone should be doing in his 1998 seminar and he wanted people to do less from there as you advanced. A few of his phone trainees that have been active on forums still said that is the routine he gave them as well even as late as a few months before he died.
As for why he did the ideal routine in the video my best guess is that it would have been a very short video if he only showed 4 exercises. He did say in the voiceover that Markus only did one workout every week or less (which Markus did not actually do at the time according to Markus). Plus the video was not complete since he died when it was filmed and never got to add anything to it. So who knows but Mike.
For what its worth, that whole training video with Reinhardt was all filmed in one day
I heard that from Reinhardt himself a few years ago
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Either he changed/varied his ideas or something is amiss then, as in HDII when talking about Racey that is what he said.
I would guess for sure, he trained Markus like that because he knew that would produce more muscle than a super over minimal super low stimulation setup.
Mentzer told me in the mid 90s…he was convinced everyone should be doing the consolidation routine.
However, he said he was afraid of such a brief routine not appealing to new clients or people new to Heavy Duty/HIT. Therefore, the higher volume and frequency split routine served its purpose for him.
John Heart who trained under Mentzer talks about the pitfalls of the consolidation routine and even told him at the time.
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Yeah, all of the competitors he trained used more volume for sure including Yates and Heart. I think people realized for themselves versus the Mentzer’s ‘hypothesis’.
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Even Mentzer used a lot more volume and frequency. His original system featured 4 training days a week and two sets on most free weight exercises. Honestly, it looked pretty good!
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John Heart telling us what’s best for hypertrophy? C’mon, look at the guy…He honestly looks as if he NEVER touched a weight. Minimal size AT BEST…Respectfully, Steve
Cretin, I believe they used the “Suggested Routine” from Heavy Duty II…It wasn’t the consolidation routine…Respectfully, Steve
He’s smaller now, but he has won several big tested shows, including the overall at the INBF Mr. America and the tall class of the Natural Mr. Universe. He built a top tier physique. I respect his opinion.