I’ve been doing sustainable training for some time now (thanks Richard Winett), but have never been able to pull off the frequency in which he trains, or number of exercises. Maybe I just don’t have the genetics or recovery ability he does, and I’m much younger at 56.
Seems as everyone ages, more rest days, exercises and frequency is the theme, but he made a case using more moderate resistance and increased TUL’s actually are less demanding on recovery and is able to pull off training MORE often.
Any thoughts on this?
You are able to do a full body 3x a week training to MMF? Is it because of the cadence and lighter resistance you are able to recover from this?
as you know winnett intensified his sets by fine and concentrated application of good form. That diminished my enjoyment and imposed too much stress. I revert to training as heavy as I can (not very) rather than playing with other options, my belief is that what really matters is probably what’s on the bar.
My recovery is poor and I do need to do less but then, I am very old.Thinking of
giving it up;
Frank Scott
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I’m 60 and muscularly bigger than I’ve ever been, yet my poundages in key lifts (bench, DB inclines, BB curls, deadlifts, overhead press) are significantly lower than they were 20 years ago. In other words: Keep it heavy, by all means, BUT realize that “Heavy” ain’t gonna be what it used to be!!
- My Mind:Muscle connections are better than they ever were!
- Multiple sets and HDT techniques have made the difference I think.
- Partnering productive compound movements with complimentary single joint moves. For instance, bench press is best for pecs in the lower 2/3s of the movement. To compliment that, I do Pec Deck or Machines Flyes and concentrate on the contraction end of the ROM.
- Failure still happens for 2-3 sets per workout — but I work up to in 3-4 sets! And when I Do Fail, I stop after the last rep in good form and skip that 10-15 sec grind nonsense – it prolongs recovery and is a waste of energy.
Don’t quit, Frank. I can’t see how 1) Keep HITting it with the highest possible weights OR 2) quitting altogether are your only 2 choices? Believe me, there are plenty of times I find myself driving a set to concentric failure, even though I had no plans to do so → That HIT Attitude gets hardwired into us to some degree. But for me to keep a frequency of 2-3 times a week, I cannot hit failure on more than probably 2 exercises per workout. Keep your concentration up and you can do the same!
Best,
Scott
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Dont give it up.As I’ve gotten older(65),it becomes more important both mentally and physically–its too easy to lose it.You dont need to go heavy on everything.I have found that heavy trap bar deadlifts(I dont perform these HIT style) have a good carry over as much as anything for general strength.I can maintain with pull ups,push ups and dips.Good luck.
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Gentlemen thank you for your interest and encouragement. it has motivated me to reconsider. Despite credible empirical
evidence of its ineffectiveness, I mean to have a look at superslow.
Frank Scott
This is by e mail. I forget how to respond to posts from the web site. help!
Good to hear, Frank! I highly recommend Dr Darden’s 30-30-30 regime as an alternative expression of SuperSlow (as featured in his book “The bodyfat breakthrough”). With additional calories it actually is a bodybuilding regime!
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You bring up a good point. I find Change highly motivating. Even what you think is the perfect routine for you, will slow down or stop measurable results in time. Change is absolutely necessary — but with purpose (i.e. not willy-nilly)
Give other routines or methods a go for 4 to 8 weeks: SuperSlow. 30-10-30. High Density Training. DB Only. Bands. Different Rep Ranges. Drops Sets. DC-Rest Pause.
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Winnett now trains full body with bands 3x a week. He trained this way into his early 70’s: A “New” way of training - Master Trainer Richard Winnett - (davedraper.com)
I’ve been training similar to this at 56, but I find 4x a week to be too much for me personally.
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I’m 60 and trying to dial-in 3/wk workouts. I’ve been a 2/wk* guy since forever, but recent articles I’ve seen on Volume and Frequency had me re-visit this (*even at 2/wk, I still split the body in half). How anyone over 30 does Full Body 3/wk is beyond me. I do believe in keeping legs and upper body together though. I alternate Push (+Quads) and Pull (+Hams/Calves) workouts on MWF (ABA, BAB, ABA, etc.).
Usually, one workout per week is all bands and bands also make their way into 1 or 2 places in the other 2 workouts too!!
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I agree with you, even two days full body to MMF is too much for me so I’ve always split into upper/lower. I actually prefer to train more often, so I’m thinking of a band only day or two in addition as well.
During the lock downs, I bought X3 and did this for a year which has you doing push/pull 6x a week, which I found was too much even with 4 or 5 exercises so did this 4x a week with no issues for recovery, but I also was cutting so I didn’t gain anything, but was able to maintain muscle mass.
I never liked full body at any age. Even twice a week full body was difficult to recover from for me and didn’t feel like I worked the muscles effectively. For the last twelve years or so I do a three-way, multiple-set split , three days a week totally about 14-16 sets per workout and the workouts take about 30 minutes. I use Johnston’s Zone Training besides others set-enhancing methods with very short rest time between sets. I have no problem with recovering or staying motivated at 70 years old. I’d never go back to training full body.
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@tzabcan what does this framework look like? This sounds similar to what Bill Piche is doing with cluster sets, one bodypart per day.
I did a full body workout 3X a week a couple of summers ago (I was 48). I used different exercises in each workout for variety and did one set per exercise just shy of failure. It worked pretty well. I performed about 6-7 exercises a workout. After a couple of months or so, I got kind of tired of it. Training the same muscle every session felt tedious especially legs.
I could see revisiting something similar again one day, but likely only for a limited time once again.
I find full body workouts very difficult to sustain for very long periods of time. I’ve tried them so many times over the years (32+ plus years of training) but always spend far more time on splits.
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Fullbody is the only way i train nowadays
Back/Biceps , Legs /Abs, Chest/Shoulders/Triceps. Two or three exercises per muscle group, two sets each exercise. Cluster sets you mention is another method I use, and also held contractions, held stretches , start/stop reps and ‘plain vanilla’ reps for DL’s.
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Thanks!
It would seem prudent to avoid the “Rush” factor! Thus, one would allow blood pressure and Heart Rate to decrease during rest periods. The opposite would be true with minimal rest periods, resulting in keeping blood pressure readings elevated.
Furthermore, warm-ups and especially cool-downs allow a gradual increase and decrease in blood pressure readings.
But above all else, Zone 2 cardio, with occasional brief increases of intensity would be beneficial.
A normal BMI would help reduce stroke-rate potential. Therefore, intentionally increasing muscle mass decreases mitochondria density. If you are interested in being active in your golden years, preserving mitochondria density, and preserving strength are wise goals. Increasing muscle mass would not!
Marc
@tzabcan I’m just starting to explore zone training and Johnston’s, I’m 60 and have always trained with a slower cadence (to failure) since getting older and wanting to preserve joint health. I’ve seen in the rhythmic approach and rest/pause, reps can become less than perfect, do you slow the cadence or have you modified in any way to emphasize always having good form?
If you follow Brian’s instructions on how to perform the zones, you will find that training within that zone — a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the full ROM — makes it very hard to deviate from the best path or groove.
On another note, I’m 60 too and train rhythmically all the time — at least at the same speed as rhythmic trainees. The trick is to NOT bounce out of the bottom of the rep. On almost every exercise I pause momentarily at the bottom of the rep, keeping a position that still maintains tension on the target muscle(s). From there I start slow, but accelerate to the top of the rep and squeeze for 1 second before a slowER but still moderate descent rate.
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