[quote]grew7 wrote:
Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets.
Huh? List the channels. NOW!![/quote]
Go to Europe. Full-on XXX porn on public TV all hours of the day. Late night MTV and BET are getting closer and closer. As for the violence, just turn on any channel after 8pm.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Dude, you said earlier that you were not restricted from watching any movie, regardless of rating or content (not sue the exact quote). In the 70’s and 80’s about as bad as it got was Halloween or Porky’s. Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets. Not to mention all the crap they can download off the internet (snuff films, body dismemberment, any sort of sexual deviance). [/quote]
Right, I already ceded this point to you. Why the redundancy?
I guess I’ll have to wait and see. There is no one-size-fits-all answer here, as our discussion has illustrated.
[quote]You gonna’ let your kids watch Saw II? Will that make them smarter? You need to be careful what you fill your kids head with.
Yes, I have a shark phobia that I credit with having seen Jaws (and it wasn’t cheesie in the 70’s) at an early age (plus having lived on the Gulf Coast and heard a lot about real shark attacks). [/quote]
Again, I already said you had a point here; you changed my mind, give it a rest.
You could make this argument for just about any life experience, and at best you’re still just making educated guesses. As I’ve stated before, our points of view are biased based on our experiences; unrestricted movie watching + open parental dialogue was very positive for me, and it was negative for you (and your son).
Another extreme case in point: My wife’s “cousin” (no real relation, old family ties) has a daughter who is about 5 now. When she was 4, my wife told me that her mom let her watch slasher films which even I thought was pretty twisted. When I saw the girl (still 4), I asked her if she got scared watching scary movies. She looked at me like I was stupid and said, “it’s just a movie, it can’t hurt me”. You could have knocked me over with a feather right then. Later on that year, her mom took her out trick-or-treating and she was petrified of the people in costumes. Why? Because they were real. They could actually get to her and touch her and she knew the difference. Maybe not a common scenario (or maybe more common than we think?), but it goes to show that different kids are going to be scared of different things.
[quote]A life lesson I would then point out: Be careful what you wish for. “See? Mom and dad told you watching this wasn’t a good idea for you, but you wanted to see it anyway, so there you go”.>>
So, you’d intentionally let your kids watch something inappropriate just to make a point? That’s sick.[/quote]
Right, and keeping your kid so sheltered he wets his bed for a week over Jurassic Park is “normal”?
I’d rather chance the remote risk (and it is extremely remote) of a phobia that follows them into adulthood (even more remote) than have the 100% assurance that I’ve raised a simpering weakling who can’t handle fantasy on a screen, let alone reality.
OK, up until now I thought we were having an intelligent exchange. You’ve skirted around insults, but I figured that was just because you were passionate about what you believed; nothing wrong with that, but you cough up some bizarre shit like that and say a movie made him do it? To say you are jumping to conclusions doesn’t really scratch the surface.
By your way of thinking, don’t let your kid watch “Agent Cody Banks” or pretty soon he’ll be wearing a dark suit, an earpiece and dark sunglasses, and walk around talking into his lapel. Give me a fucking break.
Look to history; always have, always will. But now it’s all because of movies and TV, right?
What I’ve been saying all along…
Your opinion. I never said anything about “have to”, and judging from your results, I’m inclined to think the opposite.
Yes, it does make sense. Just because you may not have been mature enough to handle the decision at that age (or were too ugly to get laid), do not assume you have a lock right and wrong. You seem to like to parrot what society deems as “acceptable”; forget that from the dawn of recorded history up until about 100 years ago, this was marriage age. In fact, let’s ram our collective heads up our asses pretend that millions-of-years-old, hormonal instincts will just go away if we tell our kids, “just say no” and “I’ll kill you if you do” instead of discussing the responsibilites and possible consequences of sex.
I’m not saying my way is the way to go for everybody (although I’m sure you’ve already jumped to that conclusion). Some people aren’t mature enough at 18 or even 20 or older. I was ready and handled it, you apparently weren’t. Get over it.
Is that an order, or did you mean to put a question mark there?
Sorry, Sport-o, no luck about it; she was on birth control of one form or another, I used latex EVERY TIME. We knew the risks involved and were RESPONSIBLE. Sorry you can’t seem to accept that.
And WTF? “Pre-teen”? Man, you must have the world record for the long jump. My girlfriend and I were the same age, stayed together 4.5 years (one of those after we graduated), and were monogamous. Would’ve gotten married if the cards had fallen the right way, but they didn’t. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Exactly. I’m going sit them down on their 14th birthday, say that once and leave the room. You’re an absolute genius!
Such as…?
I could? Never been to England or slept with any 11-year-olds, but thanks!
Wow, this should be next to “irony” in Webster’s. Mr. “Just Let Them be Kids” telling me to grow a backbone… Too much!
And where do you get that I never tell my kids “no”, or that I’m “trying to be their friend”?
I don’t know how old your son is, but I sincerely wish him the best. Hopefully all of your constant sheltering and censorship hasn’t made him afraid of his own shadow, and/or he won’t turn into an I’ve-got-it-all-figured-out, my-way-is-the-only-way, narrow-minded bigot like his old man.
[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Dude, you said earlier that you were not restricted from watching any movie, regardless of rating or content (not sue the exact quote). In the 70’s and 80’s about as bad as it got was Halloween or Porky’s. Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets. Not to mention all the crap they can download off the internet (snuff films, body dismemberment, any sort of sexual deviance).
Right, I already ceded this point to you. Why the redundancy?
My question is, where do you draw the line?
I guess I’ll have to wait and see. There is no one-size-fits-all answer here, as our discussion has illustrated.
You gonna’ let your kids watch Saw II? Will that make them smarter? You need to be careful what you fill your kids head with.
Yes, I have a shark phobia that I credit with having seen Jaws (and it wasn’t cheesie in the 70’s) at an early age (plus having lived on the Gulf Coast and heard a lot about real shark attacks).
Again, I already said you had a point here; you changed my mind, give it a rest.
You never know what is going to stick in a kids brain.
You could make this argument for just about any life experience, and at best you’re still just making educated guesses. As I’ve stated before, our points of view are biased based on our experiences; unrestricted movie watching + open parental dialogue was very positive for me, and it was negative for you (and your son).
Another extreme case in point: My wife’s “cousin” (no real relation, old family ties) has a daughter who is about 5 now. When she was 4, my wife told me that her mom let her watch slasher films which even I thought was pretty twisted. When I saw the girl (still 4), I asked her if she got scared watching scary movies. She looked at me like I was stupid and said, “it’s just a movie, it can’t hurt me”. You could have knocked me over with a feather right then. Later on that year, her mom took her out trick-or-treating and she was petrified of the people in costumes. Why? Because they were real. They could actually get to her and touch her and she knew the difference. Maybe not a common scenario (or maybe more common than we think?), but it goes to show that different kids are going to be scared of different things.
A life lesson I would then point out: Be careful what you wish for. “See? Mom and dad told you watching this wasn’t a good idea for you, but you wanted to see it anyway, so there you go”.>>
So, you’d intentionally let your kids watch something inappropriate just to make a point? That’s sick.
Right, and keeping your kid so sheltered he wets his bed for a week over Jurassic Park is “normal”?
I’d rather chance the remote risk (and it is extremely remote) of a phobia that follows them into adulthood (even more remote) than have the 100% assurance that I’ve raised a simpering weakling who can’t handle fantasy on a screen, let alone reality.
I work with a guy who’s 8-year old son was caught giving a blow job to an 11 year old. Now where do you think those two got the idea to do that (go ahead and let your kids watch Brokeback)?
OK, up until now I thought we were having an intelligent exchange. You’ve skirted around insults, but I figured that was just because you were passionate about what you believed; nothing wrong with that, but you cough up some bizarre shit like that and say a movie made him do it? To say you are jumping to conclusions doesn’t really scratch the surface.
By your way of thinking, don’t let your kid watch “Agent Cody Banks” or pretty soon he’ll be wearing a dark suit, an earpiece and dark sunglasses, and walk around talking into his lapel. Give me a fucking break.
Kids are doing some scary stuff out there.
Look to history; always have, always will. But now it’s all because of movies and TV, right?
You need to talk to them all the time.
What I’ve been saying all along…
You DO NOT have to show them rated-R movies to prove a point or make them mature.
Your opinion. I never said anything about “have to”, and judging from your results, I’m inclined to think the opposite.
You yourself admit to being “responsibly sexually active at 14”. WHAT! Does that statement make sense to you? That is wrong.
Yes, it does make sense. Just because you may not have been mature enough to handle the decision at that age (or were too ugly to get laid), do not assume you have a lock right and wrong. You seem to like to parrot what society deems as “acceptable”; forget that from the dawn of recorded history up until about 100 years ago, this was marriage age. In fact, let’s ram our collective heads up our asses pretend that millions-of-years-old, hormonal instincts will just go away if we tell our kids, “just say no” and “I’ll kill you if you do” instead of discussing the responsibilites and possible consequences of sex.
I’m not saying my way is the way to go for everybody (although I’m sure you’ve already jumped to that conclusion). Some people aren’t mature enough at 18 or even 20 or older. I was ready and handled it, you apparently weren’t. Get over it.
You gonna’ tell the kids that.
Is that an order, or did you mean to put a question mark there?
You weren’t safe and responsible, you were just lucky you didn’t get some pre-teen girl pregnant.
Sorry, Sport-o, no luck about it; she was on birth control of one form or another, I used latex EVERY TIME. We knew the risks involved and were RESPONSIBLE. Sorry you can’t seem to accept that.
And WTF? “Pre-teen”? Man, you must have the world record for the long jump. My girlfriend and I were the same age, stayed together 4.5 years (one of those after we graduated), and were monogamous. Would’ve gotten married if the cards had fallen the right way, but they didn’t. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
What are you going to tell you kids about sex? “Just be responsible”?
Exactly. I’m going sit them down on their 14th birthday, say that once and leave the room. You’re an absolute genius!
Right there you confirm everything I have said.
Such as…?
You could be the father in this story from England.
I could? Never been to England or slept with any 11-year-olds, but thanks!
Grow a backbone, tell you kids “No” once in a while and quit trying to be their friend.
Wow, this should be next to “irony” in Webster’s. Mr. “Just Let Them be Kids” telling me to grow a backbone… Too much!
And where do you get that I never tell my kids “no”, or that I’m “trying to be their friend”?
I don’t know how old your son is, but I sincerely wish him the best. Hopefully all of your constant sheltering and censorship hasn’t made him afraid of his own shadow, and/or he won’t turn into an I’ve-got-it-all-figured-out, my-way-is-the-only-way, narrow-minded bigot like his old man.
[/quote]
Look dude, sex at 14 is wrong no matter how smart you think you are. Incest used to be OK, should we go back to that. We are all here shocked an repulsed by this 11 year old who got pregnant by a 15 year old. To you, the problem is the lack of birth control since you yourself were engaged in a monogamous sexual relationship at 14 (she was hot with big tits also, right?). It doesn’t matter how long you stuck together. Are you going to support your own children having sex at 14, as long as they’re “responsible”?
The real problem is permissive parents who don’t want to be the heavy. I’m afraid of the things you are filling your kids heads up with at a very youg age. Do you have to let your kid stick a fork in the electrical socket to prove that it can hurt him? How is letting them be kids and telling them “No” ironic? Kids need rules, do you disagree? Perhaps you were the super-genius you claim to have been as a child, good for you. I think you were just lucky. As long as permissive parents like you are letting their kids do and watch anything they want, we shouldn’t be surprised when an 11 year old gets pregnant or gets AIDS or has 3 kids by the time she’s 18.
Oh, and on the little kids giving blow-jobs. That is not an urban legend or something I heard from a friend of a friend who knows someone who… That involved a guy who works with me. Hey, you were a worldly super-genius as a kid, right? Were you thinking about blow-jobs at age 8 or 9? I wasn’t? Where would two little kids get the idea to do that?
That wasn’t an isolated incident. I personally know elementary school teachers who, when I told them this story told me they catch kids doing it on the playground occasionally. My wife teaches pre-K (2-4 year olds). One of her kids told her he wanted to “sex her down”. He had no idea what that meant, but where did her get that from? Normal toddler language in your house, right?
It’s not about sheltering kids, it’s about reasonably protecting them as best you can. Too many parents want to be “cool”, and pander to their children, let them run the house and make all their own decisions at an early age, and generally avoid all decision making that might make the kid mad. That’s lazy. You must be vigilant at all times. I’m sure you think I’m a Nazi or something, but I believe kids need boundaries and rules. They need to understand who’s in charge. This can be done without smothering their independence or oppressing them and without exposing them to the dark side of life.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
grew7 wrote:
Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets.
Huh? List the channels. NOW!!
Go to Europe. Full-on XXX porn on public TV all hours of the day. Late night MTV and BET are getting closer and closer. As for the violence, just turn on any channel after 8pm.
[/quote]
Not here, dammit
[quote]miniross wrote:
PGJ wrote:
grew7 wrote:
Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets.
Huh? List the channels. NOW!!
Go to Europe. Full-on XXX porn on public TV all hours of the day. Late night MTV and BET are getting closer and closer. As for the violence, just turn on any channel after 8pm.
Not here, dammit
/quote]
They show the occasional boobie in England… But in Italy and Holland, holy crap, nothing is off limits. Don’t know about other European nations, but I assume there are others. Spent 6 months in Aviano, Italy. The troops really appreciated the free porn on TV.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
You guys aren’t serious, are you? It’s not about having a smart kid (EVERYBODY thinks their kid is really smart). It’s about shielding them from all the crap they don’t need to be exposed to. I don’t buy the “they’ll be smarter” or “why should we shield our kids…” You’re crazy if you don’t. How do you explain why that man just got his brains beat out with a golf club (Sopranos), or why is that man licking that ladies boobies…or why that guy just got eaten by sharks… My friend told me he went to see Saw II and when he was there some guy had his young son with him. Couldn’t have been more than 10! That is sick. That crap does have a lasting effect on kids. I saw Jaws when it came out on HBO back in the 70’s. That freaked me out bad and still does. Why do people want their kids to grow up so fast…then we wonder why they get pregnant at 11, do drugs at 15, shoot up schools or act like little Paris Hilton’s. Children are not little adults.
<<The bottom line is, movies can only impact kids as much as a parent lets them.>>
That is BS! You are only fooling yourself.
<>
What kind of answer is that? Just because you can hold a conversation doesn’t mean you have the capacity to grasp complex ideas and filter out fact from fiction. How many adults are afraid of the dark? It has nothing to do with intelligence. My kid knew the names of just about every dinosaur by looking at their picture at age 5. I let him watch Jurrasic Park when he was 8 and he freaked out! He had a hard time sleeping for about a week. No matter what I told him, it still scared him badly.
Don’t kid yourself, kids are not mature enough to handle some of the stuff in the movies. Let them be kids. Why intentionally risk messing up his head because you think it will make him “socially and intellectually ahead of my peers”?
[/quote]
It’s the opposite. It’s about educating your kids and teaching them proper values in light of the shit they will inevitably be exposed to. As you can’t be with them 24/7 or keep them in your pocket.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I wonder if they charged him with rape because he raped her or if he should have known better than to have sex with a girl 3 years younger that was drunk.[/quote]
The reason that they charged the boy with rape is that the girl is under the age of consent in the UK. When a boy who is under the age of 16 has sex with a girl also under 16, the girl’s parents have the option to press rape charges. When they’re both the same age, I think it’s pretty out of order, and although the boy’s only 14, I think there’s a little more validity here. I don’t think I was looking at 11 year olds when I was 14.
That said, it seems to be a bit rich from a mother who let her daughter drink and smoke when she wasn’t yet ten…
[quote]majicka wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I wonder if they charged him with rape because he raped her or if he should have known better than to have sex with a girl 3 years younger that was drunk.
The reason that they charged the boy with rape is that the girl is under the age of consent in the UK. When a boy who is under the age of 16 has sex with a girl also under 16, the girl’s parents have the option to press rape charges. When they’re both the same age, I think it’s pretty out of order, and although the boy’s only 14, I think there’s a little more validity here. I don’t think I was looking at 11 year olds when I was 14.
That said, it seems to be a bit rich from a mother who let her daughter drink and smoke when she wasn’t yet ten…[/quote]
I think they would try that in America, if the boy was poor and was going to have a Public Defender. But in my opinion you could win that case with a Lawyer from the Mall.
Granted the girl is not starting her life out very well but there is no reason to make the Boy?s life any worse than it has to be.
As far as not looking at 11 year olds at the age of 14, I think it would depend on the Development of the 11 year old. I do not think that age difference to be anything unusual.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
majicka wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I wonder if they charged him with rape because he raped her or if he should have known better than to have sex with a girl 3 years younger that was drunk.
The reason that they charged the boy with rape is that the girl is under the age of consent in the UK. When a boy who is under the age of 16 has sex with a girl also under 16, the girl’s parents have the option to press rape charges. When they’re both the same age, I think it’s pretty out of order, and although the boy’s only 14, I think there’s a little more validity here. I don’t think I was looking at 11 year olds when I was 14.
That said, it seems to be a bit rich from a mother who let her daughter drink and smoke when she wasn’t yet ten…
I think they would try that in America, if the boy was poor and was going to have a Public Defender. But in my opinion you could win that case with a Lawyer from the Mall.
Granted the girl is not starting her life out very well but there is no reason to make the Boy?s life any worse than it has to be.
As far as not looking at 11 year olds at the age of 14, I think it would depend on the Development of the 11 year old. I do not think that age difference to be anything unusual.
[/quote]
There’s definitely something in the water these days. I don’t know about 11. But there’s easily 15-year old girls who could pass for their early twenties. Until they open their mouth, that is. There’s statutory rape in America, but in most states there’s an exception for indivuals a certain amount of years apart. Parents of a 16-year old girl for example couldn’t press charges against her 18-year old boyfriend if they have sex. I’m not sure, but I don’t think there are any states where parents can press charges if both participants are legally minors.
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
This is just a reflection of the state of the UK now, and I fear most of the rest of the world.
Filling up with stupid, lazy assed benifit loving scum bags.
I hate it so much I might do a ‘falling down’
[/quote]
World’s going to shit.
That’s why I’m hoping for a giant meteor to pummel into Earth allowing only the strong to survive.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Look dude, sex at 14 is wrong no matter how smart you think you are. [/quote]
Sez you.
Really? Please cite your historical reference.
You have one sick mind. I never said that, nor did I even remotely imply it. This is your own warped mind twisting what I wrote into what you want to see.
Wow, your conclusion-jumping stamina is amazing.
As a matter of fact she was, thanks for asking. Funny a grown man who claims he thinks sex at 14 is wrong should want to know, though…
I already answered this. Are you trying to give me writer’s cramp?
And I agree with you! JTFC, read my posts! This is what I was talking about with the “let them be kids” crowd; it has become synonymous with “let them go ape shit”.
I just happen to think that the ‘hard work’ of parenting ALSO lies in not avoiding difficult questions because they make the parent(s) feel uncomfortable.
And I’m afraid of the things you’re avoiding. Although in the long run, I’m sure it’s not as bad as either of us are inclined to think in the heat of an internet pissing contest.
No. Do you? Is this your idea of an analogy?
Answered already, see above. Have you noticed you ask a lot of the same questions multiple times? Maybe a point-counterpoint format like I use could help you avoid this; free tip from me to you.
Actually, I was only a borderline genius (135 IQ), but still quite useless as memorization and rote learning were just as hard for me as any average kid. As for lucky, do you mean because I was exceptionally bright, or that I never knocked up my girlfriend? As I already told you regarding the latter, we were deadly serious about it and took every precaution. If that’s what you call luck, then I suppose you use a dictionary I’m unfamiliar with.
As for the former, it worked against me more than you can know. Whereas I have a hard time relating to your shark phobia via a movie, the stuff that scarred me in chilhood would probably seem laughable to you. I’d be happy to share with you, but I’m inclined to think you have little interest in the matter.
Like me, huh? Your selctive reading is quite astounding, that’s all I can say.
I never doubted this. Why do you feel the need to defend it?
Yep. “S” on my chest and everything.
I’m trying very hard not to see you as a horse’s ass, but when you polarize and exagerate like this, I can’t help but think you are Anne Coulter’s long-lost fraternal twin.
Getting or giving?
I don’t know, I wasn’t there when you were 8 or 9 (you might want to be more careful with question mark placement).
Without knowing every detail of the situation and both kids’ backgrounds, I couldn’t say and NEITHER CAN YOU, so knock it off with your “it’s all Brokeback Mountain’s fault” bullshit.
OK…
So now we’re talking about toddlers? WTF, dude, stay on topic.
To answer your question, though, the kid probably got it off of a Top 40 radio station. It also does not, in and of itself, mean he is being raised in a wild and crazy, permissive manner.
PGJ, you have kids, you know how hard it is to stem the tide of crap that is floating around between all of the media outlets out there. You also know some of it is bound to get through despite your best efforts, and 2-4 year olds will parrot whatever they hear even once.
Yeah, it sucks, but everytime I try to agree with you, you ignore it and blather the same shit over and over, so why bother?
Hopefully not, but thank you for implying that I’m going to raise my offspring to be perverted degenerates. Check back with me in 2-3 years.
[Straining Captain Kirk voice] Already… said that… multiple… times! Redundancy… making head… explode!
No, I don’t! If you’d quit trying so hard to pick a fight, you’d know this already!
I think you are a decent (somewhat pig-headed, but good at heart) man trying to do the best job he knows how to do in raising his children. I’d even go so far to say you’re better than most, judging from the time you’ve devoted to this thread going back and forth with me.
You want to protect your kids from the stuff that messed with your head as a kid. Guess what, Charlie, SO DO I! Where we differ is 1)in what we see as truly harmful to their development and 2)I don’t claim to have all the answers.
I… Fuck it, 5 times in one thread is enough.
filthy limeys. what did you expect?
[quote]PGJ wrote:
You guys aren’t serious, are you? It’s not about having a smart kid (EVERYBODY thinks their kid is really smart). It’s about shielding them from all the crap they don’t need to be exposed to. I don’t buy the “they’ll be smarter” or “why should we shield our kids…” You’re crazy if you don’t. How do you explain why that man just got his brains beat out with a golf club (Sopranos), or why is that man licking that ladies boobies…or why that guy just got eaten by sharks… My friend told me he went to see Saw II and when he was there some guy had his young son with him. Couldn’t have been more than 10! That is sick. That crap does have a lasting effect on kids. I saw Jaws when it came out on HBO back in the 70’s. That freaked me out bad and still does. Why do people want their kids to grow up so fast…then we wonder why they get pregnant at 11, do drugs at 15, shoot up schools or act like little Paris Hilton’s. Children are not little adults.
<<The bottom line is, movies can only impact kids as much as a parent lets them.>>
That is BS! You are only fooling yourself.
<>
What kind of answer is that? Just because you can hold a conversation doesn’t mean you have the capacity to grasp complex ideas and filter out fact from fiction. How many adults are afraid of the dark? It has nothing to do with intelligence. My kid knew the names of just about every dinosaur by looking at their picture at age 5. I let him watch Jurrasic Park when he was 8 and he freaked out! He had a hard time sleeping for about a week. No matter what I told him, it still scared him badly.
Don’t kid yourself, kids are not mature enough to handle some of the stuff in the movies. Let them be kids. Why intentionally risk messing up his head because you think it will make him “socially and intellectually ahead of my peers”?
[/quote]
Good post!
Exactly!
[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Look dude, sex at 14 is wrong no matter how smart you think you are.
Sez you.
Incest used to be OK, should we go back to that.
Really? Please cite your historical reference.
We are all here shocked an repulsed by this 11 year old who got pregnant by a 15 year old. To you, the problem is the lack of birth control
You have one sick mind. I never said that, nor did I even remotely imply it. This is your own warped mind twisting what I wrote into what you want to see.
since you yourself were engaged in a monogamous sexual relationship at 14
Wow, your conclusion-jumping stamina is amazing.
(she was hot with big tits also, right?).
As a matter of fact she was, thanks for asking. Funny a grown man who claims he thinks sex at 14 is wrong should want to know, though…
It doesn’t matter how long you stuck together. Are you going to support your own children having sex at 14, as long as they’re “responsible”?
I already answered this. Are you trying to give me writer’s cramp?
The real problem is permissive parents who don’t want to be the heavy.
And I agree with you! JTFC, read my posts! This is what I was talking about with the “let them be kids” crowd; it has become synonymous with “let them go ape shit”.
I just happen to think that the ‘hard work’ of parenting ALSO lies in not avoiding difficult questions because they make the parent(s) feel uncomfortable.
I’m afraid of the things you are filling your kids heads up with at a very youg age.
And I’m afraid of the things you’re avoiding. Although in the long run, I’m sure it’s not as bad as either of us are inclined to think in the heat of an internet pissing contest.
Do you have to let your kid stick a fork in the electrical socket to prove that it can hurt him?
No. Do you? Is this your idea of an analogy?
How is letting them be kids and telling them “No” ironic? Kids need rules, do you disagree?
Answered already, see above. Have you noticed you ask a lot of the same questions multiple times? Maybe a point-counterpoint format like I use could help you avoid this; free tip from me to you.
Perhaps you were the super-genius you claim to have been as a child, good for you. I think you were just lucky.
Actually, I was only a borderline genius (135 IQ), but still quite useless as memorization and rote learning were just as hard for me as any average kid. As for lucky, do you mean because I was exceptionally bright, or that I never knocked up my girlfriend? As I already told you regarding the latter, we were deadly serious about it and took every precaution. If that’s what you call luck, then I suppose you use a dictionary I’m unfamiliar with.
As for the former, it worked against me more than you can know. Whereas I have a hard time relating to your shark phobia via a movie, the stuff that scarred me in chilhood would probably seem laughable to you. I’d be happy to share with you, but I’m inclined to think you have little interest in the matter.
As long as permissive parents like you are letting their kids do and watch anything they want, we shouldn’t be surprised when an 11 year old gets pregnant or gets AIDS or has 3 kids by the time she’s 18.
Like me, huh? Your selctive reading is quite astounding, that’s all I can say.
Oh, and on the little kids giving blow-jobs. That is not an urban legend or something I heard from a friend of a friend who knows someone who… That involved a guy who works with me.
I never doubted this. Why do you feel the need to defend it?
Hey, you were a worldly super-genius as a kid, right?
Yep. “S” on my chest and everything.
I’m trying very hard not to see you as a horse’s ass, but when you polarize and exagerate like this, I can’t help but think you are Anne Coulter’s long-lost fraternal twin.
Were you thinking about blow-jobs at age 8 or 9?
Getting or giving?
I wasn’t?
I don’t know, I wasn’t there when you were 8 or 9 (you might want to be more careful with question mark placement).
Where would two little kids get the idea to do that?
Without knowing every detail of the situation and both kids’ backgrounds, I couldn’t say and NEITHER CAN YOU, so knock it off with your “it’s all Brokeback Mountain’s fault” bullshit.
That wasn’t an isolated incident. I personally know elementary school teachers who, when I told them this story told me they catch kids doing it on the playground occasionally.
OK…
My wife teaches pre-K (2-4 year olds). One of her kids told her he wanted to “sex her down”. He had no idea what that meant, but where did her get that from?
So now we’re talking about toddlers? WTF, dude, stay on topic.
To answer your question, though, the kid probably got it off of a Top 40 radio station. It also does not, in and of itself, mean he is being raised in a wild and crazy, permissive manner.
PGJ, you have kids, you know how hard it is to stem the tide of crap that is floating around between all of the media outlets out there. You also know some of it is bound to get through despite your best efforts, and 2-4 year olds will parrot whatever they hear even once.
Yeah, it sucks, but everytime I try to agree with you, you ignore it and blather the same shit over and over, so why bother?
Normal toddler language in your house, right?
Hopefully not, but thank you for implying that I’m going to raise my offspring to be perverted degenerates. Check back with me in 2-3 years.
It’s not about sheltering kids, it’s about reasonably protecting them as best you can. Too many parents want to be “cool”, and pander to their children, let them run the house and make all their own decisions at an early age, and generally avoid all decision making that might make the kid mad. That’s lazy. You must be vigilant at all times.
[Straining Captain Kirk voice] Already… said that… multiple… times! Redundancy… making head… explode!
I’m sure you think I’m a Nazi or something,
No, I don’t! If you’d quit trying so hard to pick a fight, you’d know this already!
I think you are a decent (somewhat pig-headed, but good at heart) man trying to do the best job he knows how to do in raising his children. I’d even go so far to say you’re better than most, judging from the time you’ve devoted to this thread going back and forth with me.
You want to protect your kids from the stuff that messed with your head as a kid. Guess what, Charlie, SO DO I! Where we differ is 1)in what we see as truly harmful to their development and 2)I don’t claim to have all the answers.
but I believe kids need boundaries and rules. They need to understand who’s in charge. This can be done without smothering their independence or oppressing them and without exposing them to the dark side of life.
I… Fuck it, 5 times in one thread is enough.
[/quote]
Look, you have quoted me out of context on several occasions and I don’t have the energy to go back point-by-point for explanation. We have different theories on parenthood. I don’t know you, you don’t know me. We are both jumping to a lot of conclusions about each other. We both dearly love our children and want what’s best for them. I’ve seen a lot of parents who just don’t care (my Mom is a Court Appointed Special Advocate volunteer and deals with abused and neglected kids every day. Her stories are chilling). I didn’t mean to stir up a bunch of crap. I’m done with this thread. Peace?
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Look, you have quoted me out of context on several occasions and I don’t have the energy to go back point-by-point for explanation. We have different theories on parenthood. I don’t know you, you don’t know me. We are both jumping to a lot of conclusions about each other. We both dearly love our children and want what’s best for them. I’ve seen a lot of parents who just don’t care (my Mom is a Court Appointed Special Advocate volunteer and deals with abused and neglected kids every day. Her stories are chilling). I didn’t mean to stir up a bunch of crap. I’m done with this thread. Peace?
[/quote]
Done and done.
I think this one has the record.
[quote]ghengis wrote:
I think this one has the record.[/quote]
come on someone has to comment on this.
saw this story on www.drudgereport.com pretty crazy.
100% disgusting.
[quote]doogie wrote:
This does not make permissiveness in and of itself evil, just like being authoritarian is not evil. There needs to be a balance, and where to lean on the R-rated movies thing is still ambiguous.
Of course there needs to be a balance between authoritarian/permissive. Additionally, each child needs to be assessed as an individual. Nothing works for everyone.
I do think that overall, a higher percentage of permissive parents are shitty as compared to authoritarian parents. I only say that because being authoritarian requires a lot more effort than being permissive.[/quote]
Effort != Effectiveness. Also don’t forget that while mistakes of permissive parents are more obvious and come through earlier in life, negative effects of authoritarian parents hurt on a much deeper level, possibly well into adulthood and may stay unrecognized.
I do think that there is a higher dispersion among permission parents - they are the best and the worst, but I don’t think we can compare averges permissive vs. authoritarian