[quote]PGJ wrote:
How do you explain why that man just got his brains beat out with a golf club (Sopranos),or why that guy just got eaten by sharks…
[/quote]
Just tell him it’s because he touches himself at night. That’ll teach the little bastard.
[quote]doogie wrote:
blah blah blah
[/quote]
Yep, because correlation proves causation. Always.
This debate has always been dumb and always will be, because neither side has ever made a cogent point.
[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
doogie wrote:
blah blah blah
Yep, because correlation proves causation. Always.
This debate has always been dumb and always will be, because neither side has ever made a cogent point.
[/quote]
I never claimed there was causation.
There is obviously a correlation between bad things for kids–smoking, drinking, having sex–and watching rated R movies. The likely CAUSE is that they just have shitty parents and shitty parents are more likely to let their kids watch movies that are inappropriate for them.
Youngest mother at the moment, but this would have been more common in the past. Usually the pregnancy would be terminated though, say 50-100 years ago. Before that though maybe a marriage went through instead.
You have to realise some people develop much earlier than others. An 11 year old 500 years ago more likely would be closer to a 14-15 year old today - for some. And there are some who develop faster these days too.
Note I am not saying this is a good idea.
The fact that she smokes shows she is an idiot.
The fact she smokes at AGE ELEVEN shows she is a super-idiot and that the tobacco companies child-targetted marketing is working to plan.
The fact her mum is proud of her shows that she comes from a family of idiots.
She should be allowed to have the child it is a human right.
But society should not really encourage this kind of nonsense.
But in my opinion the smoking is the worst behaviour, not the getting pregnant.
Also her age could be a problem if in fact she is not well developed … childbirth can and does result in death. That is probably why societies through the ages have been so strict about controlling sexual activity.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
But in my opinion the smoking is the worst behaviour, not the getting pregnant.
[/quote]
LOL You didn’t really mean this as it reads, do you?
I would think that there are quite a few more drawbacks to having a child at age eleven than smoking at eleven. But hey, that’s just me. 
I have always wondered if parents attempted to shield their children from terrible things like R rated movies because it protected the child, or if they were not ready for their children to grow up.
My parents never censored anything I watched, or blocked me from watching anything, and yet I knew a lot of kids who’s parents tried to shelter their kids, and never knew what the kids were really up to.
I understand wanting to preserve a child’s innocence, but to me innocence is another word for ignorance. Now this doesn’t mean renting porn and setting your child in front of the television. They should at least be 8.
:^P
Does anyone remember their childhood? Anyone remember how all the adults were clueless as to what was really going on with their kids? People get above a certain age and forget this stuff.
There was a very successful clown locally who was a good friend of mine. (Unfortunately he passed away a couple years ago.) He explained exactly why he was so successful. He actually talked to kids. He pointed out that most parents and adults really do not talk to children, or really listen to them, something he was good at.
I don’t think television, movies, and music is as much of a problem as parents not being there to help the kids understand this stuff. So much easier to avoid the subject and call it preserving their innocence.
Now this 11 year old needs a real parent, and a good kick in the ass. (Maybe natural childbirth could help.) The 15 year old may or may not get what is coming to him, but I doubt this 11 year old is the innocent victim some may think. Then again that should not let the 15 year old off the hook.
[quote]doogie wrote:
I never claimed there was causation.
The is obviously a correlation between bad things for kids–smoking, drinking, having sex–and watching rated R movies. The likely CAUSE is that they just have shitty parents and shitty parents are more likely to let their kids watch movies that are inappropriate for them.[/quote]
I guess then I’m not sure what point it is that you’re trying to make. To say that bad parents tend to do certain things is kind of silly, because the cigarrette smoking is the bad thing that makes them bad parents, the R-rated movies thing is ambiguous. If shitty parents let their kids watch R-rated movies, this does not mean that having kids watch R-rated movies is bad. This is only one step more logical than saying “You know who else let his kids watch R-rated movies? Hitler! Do you think HE was a good parent?”
It’s just as, if not more likely, that parents whose kids end up smoking are just more permissive, and this extends to things like R-rated movies. This does not make permissiveness in and of itself evil, just like being authoritarian is not evil. There needs to be a balance, and where to lean on the R-rated movies thing is still ambiguous.
I assumed you were saying there was a causation because otherwise I’m not sure that you’re saying anything at all.
I often see pregnant mothers smoking outside hospitals.
They should be culled. That level of absolute stupidity “it doesn’t affect my pregnancy” (now she has a PHd in obstetrics now) cannot bear explanation.
That poor bloody feotus would be better off trying to fend for itself outside the womb from embryonic stages.
Yet another example of why there should be enforced population control over some facets of the social spectrum.
proud, what a fucking laugh.
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
This is just a reflection of the state of the UK now, and I fear most of the rest of the world.
Filling up with stupid, lazy assed benifit loving scum bags.
I hate it so much I might do a ‘falling down’
lol… Was thinking about doing a Travis Bickle but a ‘Falling Down’ could work too. My next door neighbour is a gran at under 30. Every day I see 16 year-olds in groups of two or three all pushing prams. Something tells me they are not all nannys. Yesterday I saw a girl, couldn’t be more than 16, with a baby and another in the oven, not only wearing a ‘sexy’ belly top and she was smoking like there was no tomorrow.
World’s going to shit.
[/quote]
you must live in a very nice place!
[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
It’s just as, if not more likely, that parents whose kids end up smoking are just more permissive, and this extends to things like R-rated movies. [/quote]
That’s what I’m saying.
Of course there needs to be a balance between authoritarian/permissive. Additionally, each child needs to be assessed as an individual. Nothing works for everyone.
I do think that overall, a higher percentage of permissive parents are shitty as compared to authoritarian parents. I only say that because being authoritarian requires a lot more effort than being permissive.
Trash.
A story like this and you think the world is going to shit? Got news for you gents. Young pregnancies and this sort of behaviour has been going on since the dawn of time. The only difference now is the spread of information. You lot sound like the typical “those-were-the-days” populace. Soon you’ll be calling young people ‘younguns’ and ‘whippersnappers’! 
…No, I do not condone this sort of thing, but I’m just alerting to the fact that you’re all becoming old farts. Don’t let it happen! :-p
[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
PGJ wrote:
You guys aren’t serious, are you?
Um, yes.
It’s not about having a smart kid (EVERYBODY thinks their kid is really smart).
True, but in my case, I really was. Took a bunch of tests and everything. Now why aren’t I rich?
It’s about shielding them from all the crap they don’t need to be exposed to. I don’t buy the “they’ll be smarter” or “why should we shield our kids…” You’re crazy if you don’t. How do you explain why that man just got his brains beat out with a golf club (Sopranos), or why is that man licking that ladies boobies…or why that guy just got eaten by sharks… My friend told me he went to see Saw II and when he was there some guy had his young son with him. Couldn’t have been more than 10! That is sick. That crap does have a lasting effect on kids.
OK, I’ll concede this point. On early 80’s cable, the worst you could see was a Friday the 13th or a Halloween movie which are nowhere near the graphic gore-fests horror films are today, and pretty cheesy and laughable to anyone over 12.
I saw Jaws when it came out on HBO back in the 70’s. That freaked me out bad and still does.
Sorry to hear that. Have you had counseling? How old were you?
Why do people want their kids to grow up so fast…
They don’t, and therein lies the problem; they don’t put any effort into helping them grow up at all. Keeping so many things tabboo, gets you the following:
then we wonder why they get pregnant at 11, do drugs at 15, shoot up schools or act like little Paris Hilton’s.
Some ridiculous exceptions aside (like the one this thread was started on), most kids that do the stuff you mentioned are from upper-middle class homes. Their parents can’t figure out where they went wrong; they bought all the Disney DVD’s, made sure to never utter a swear word in front of them, or have any kind of real, honest talk about sex or drugs as they were coming of age. They provided them with every material thing they could have ever wanted, set boundaries and curfews, locked out all the “bad” channels on the cable box, the whole 9, and little Susie comes home knocked up at 14. Had to have been the “R” rated movie she saw at her friend’s sleepover last year, right?
And for the record: I never did drugs, was responsibly sexually active at 14, and am just now having my first child at 33. Guess those “R” rated movies really corrupted my behavior, huh?
<<The bottom line is, movies can only impact kids as much as a parent lets them.>>
That is BS! You are only fooling yourself.
No, I am relating a true-to-life account of my experience. I admit I was hasty in generalizing that everyone’s experience would be like mine, but then again, so were you.
<>
What kind of answer is that? Just because you can hold a conversation doesn’t mean you have the capacity to grasp complex ideas and filter out fact from fiction.
I could, you and your offspring apparently couldn’t. Sorry.
How many adults are afraid of the dark?.
I don’t know. How many?
It has nothing to do with intelligence.
Depends on how you define it. Granted, irrational phobias affect otherwise intelligent people, but unless you have some serious mental hang-ups, stuff like being scared of the dark and the boogey man in your closet should be long gone by 11 or 12.
My kid knew the names of just about every dinosaur by looking at their picture at age 5. I let him watch Jurrasic Park when he was 8 and he freaked out! He had a hard time sleeping for about a week. No matter what I told him, it still scared him badly.
And you don’t see that as highly unusual? That movie was made for 8-year-olds!
Don’t kid yourself, kids are not mature enough to handle some of the stuff in the movies.
You have a point. I generalized based on my personal experience and that was wrong.
Let them be kids.
Why is it I always seem to hear this phrase from parents whose children don’t know how to use cutlery or behave in public? Not saying this is the case with you, but I think this whole “let them be kids” crap has turned into “don’t challenge them at all, and avoid all of their questions that make you feel uncomfortable”.
Why intentionally risk messing up his head because you think it will make him “socially and intellectually ahead of my peers”?
I would never make my daughter watch anything she was uncomfortable with, and now that you’ve mentioned it, I would bypass certain shows/movies until a later age. The thing is, our boob-tube choices are pretty tame at my house, so I have kind of forgotten the breadth and depth of shit in today’s programming; thanks for reminding me.
That being said, if she, at age 7 or 8, was really insistent upon seeing something her mom and I were watching (which would not be The Sopranos or man-licking-boobies; like I said, our choices are pretty tame) I don’t think shoving her in her room and telling her to go to sleep is the answer. I don’t think you give kids enough credit; they pick up on the hypocrisy of this “do as I say not as I do” bullshit pretty early on and it builds up over time. By the time they are in their teens (or sooner) their respect for their parents is all but non-existent. But I digress…
I would let her watch what we are watching and if she had questions, I’d answer them as honestly as I could. If she got scared, bored, confused, etc., so be it. A life lesson I would then point out: Be careful what you wish for. “See? Mom and dad told you watching this wasn’t a good idea for you, but you wanted to see it anyway, so there you go”. I think showing them that you’re right goes a hell of a lot farther than just telling them.
Like the old saying goes, “the truth lies somewhere in the middle”:
I was an unusually bright, well-behaved, and introspective kid and I can’t expect anyone, even my own children to live up to this.
PGJ, you are a grown man still freaked out by a cheesy shark movie you saw as a kid, and your 8-year-old son had a fit over Jurassic Park. I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone that would not find this unusually neurotic.
I am not trying to be insulting here, just pointing out that our points of view are extremely polarized based on our personal experiences. Middle ground here seems to be the answer.
[/quote]
Dude, you said earlier that you were not restricted from watching any movie, regardless of rating or content (not sue the exact quote). In the 70’s and 80’s about as bad as it got was Halloween or Porky’s. Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets. Not to mention all the crap they can download off the internet (snuff films, body dismemberment, any sort of sexual deviance).
My question is, where do you draw the line? You gonna’ let your kids watch Saw II? Will that make them smarter? You need to be careful what you fill your kids head with.
Yes, I have a shark phobia that I credit with having seen Jaws (and it wasn’t cheesie in the 70’s) at an early age (plus having lived on the Gulf Coast and heard a lot about real shark attacks). You never know what is going to stick in a kids brain.
<<A life lesson I would then point out: Be careful what you wish for. “See? Mom and dad told you watching this wasn’t a good idea for you, but you wanted to see it anyway, so there you go”.>>
So, you’d intentionally let your kids watch something inappropriate just to make a point? That’s sick.
I work with a guy who’s 8-year old son was caught giving a blow job to an 11 year old. Now where do you think those two got the idea to do that (go ahead and let your kids watch Brokeback)? Kids are doing some scary stuff out there. You need to talk to them all the time. You DO NOT have to show them rated-R movies to prove a point or make them mature.
You yourself admit to being “responsibly sexually active at 14”. WHAT! Does that statement make sense to you? That is wrong. You gonna’ tell the kids that. You weren’t safe and responsible, you were just lucky you didn’t get some pre-teen girl pregnant. What are you going to tell you kids about sex? “Just be responsible”? Right there you confirm everything I have said. You could be the father in this story from England. Grow a backbone, tell you kids “No” once in a while and quit trying to be their friend.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
But in my opinion the smoking is the worst behaviour, not the getting pregnant.
LOL You didn’t really mean this as it reads, do you?
I would think that there are quite a few more drawbacks to having a child at age eleven than smoking at eleven. But hey, that’s just me.
[/quote]
HAHA yeah you got me there, although smoking is real bad, obviously if I had an 11 year old girl I’d be more concerned if she was pregnant, than smoking.
I was just trying to point out how the smoking was REAL bad. I don’t know what it is like over there but here, it is illegal for 11 year olds to smoke, drink and obviously get pregnant.
What struck me most in the article was that the mother was proud … of WHAT???
- of the smoking?
- that her child drinks?
- that her child was having sex?
- that her child was PREGNANT FFS
- that the pregnancy was a result of rape?
The sad thing is I’ve seen this many times (not in anyone that young, but not that much older) and the parents ARE proud of their messed up kids. It makes me cringe. I can hear their stupid comments now.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/05/vd.html
I hope this works, but check this video from ebaums world. It’s long and funny. But at the core of the message is exactly what we are talking about. The constant bombardment of immorality. It does have an impact on the psyche.
When this video was made (I’m guessing the 1950’s), the examples shown were as graphic as it got. Now look where we are. Where will we be in 50 years from now? It’s all a communist plot (my favorite line). Once you quit laughing at this guys delivery and think about the message, the guy has a valid point.
[quote]doogie wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
doogie wrote:
blah blah blah
Yep, because correlation proves causation. Always.
This debate has always been dumb and always will be, because neither side has ever made a cogent point.
I never claimed there was causation.
There is obviously a correlation between bad things for kids–smoking, drinking, having sex–and watching rated R movies. The likely CAUSE is that they just have shitty parents and shitty parents are more likely to let their kids watch movies that are inappropriate for them.[/quote]
I AGREE 100%, and there are alot of bad parents out there, just ask any teacher…
[quote]doogie wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Truley a sad story.But why prosecute the boy ?
Because he raped a drunk 11 year old girl.[/quote]
I must have misread that article or skipped a paragraph. I did not read that the girl was raped. I will go back and reread the article.
I wonder if they charged him with rape because he raped her or if he should have known better than to have sex with a girl 3 years younger that was drunk.
[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
PGJ wrote:
You guys aren’t serious, are you?
Um, yes.
It’s not about having a smart kid (EVERYBODY thinks their kid is really smart).
True, but in my case, I really was. Took a bunch of tests and everything. Now why aren’t I rich?
It’s about shielding them from all the crap they don’t need to be exposed to. I don’t buy the “they’ll be smarter” or “why should we shield our kids…” You’re crazy if you don’t. How do you explain why that man just got his brains beat out with a golf club (Sopranos), or why is that man licking that ladies boobies…or why that guy just got eaten by sharks… My friend told me he went to see Saw II and when he was there some guy had his young son with him. Couldn’t have been more than 10! That is sick. That crap does have a lasting effect on kids.
OK, I’ll concede this point. On early 80’s cable, the worst you could see was a Friday the 13th or a Halloween movie which are nowhere near the graphic gore-fests horror films are today, and pretty cheesy and laughable to anyone over 12.
I saw Jaws when it came out on HBO back in the 70’s. That freaked me out bad and still does.
Sorry to hear that. Have you had counseling? How old were you?
Why do people want their kids to grow up so fast…
They don’t, and therein lies the problem; they don’t put any effort into helping them grow up at all. Keeping so many things tabboo, gets you the following:
then we wonder why they get pregnant at 11, do drugs at 15, shoot up schools or act like little Paris Hilton’s.
Some ridiculous exceptions aside (like the one this thread was started on), most kids that do the stuff you mentioned are from upper-middle class homes. Their parents can’t figure out where they went wrong; they bought all the Disney DVD’s, made sure to never utter a swear word in front of them, or have any kind of real, honest talk about sex or drugs as they were coming of age. They provided them with every material thing they could have ever wanted, set boundaries and curfews, locked out all the “bad” channels on the cable box, the whole 9, and little Susie comes home knocked up at 14. Had to have been the “R” rated movie she saw at her friend’s sleepover last year, right?
And for the record: I never did drugs, was responsibly sexually active at 14, and am just now having my first child at 33. Guess those “R” rated movies really corrupted my behavior, huh?
<<The bottom line is, movies can only impact kids as much as a parent lets them.>>
That is BS! You are only fooling yourself.
No, I am relating a true-to-life account of my experience. I admit I was hasty in generalizing that everyone’s experience would be like mine, but then again, so were you.
<>
What kind of answer is that? Just because you can hold a conversation doesn’t mean you have the capacity to grasp complex ideas and filter out fact from fiction.
I could, you and your offspring apparently couldn’t. Sorry.
How many adults are afraid of the dark?.
I don’t know. How many?
It has nothing to do with intelligence.
Depends on how you define it. Granted, irrational phobias affect otherwise intelligent people, but unless you have some serious mental hang-ups, stuff like being scared of the dark and the boogey man in your closet should be long gone by 11 or 12.
My kid knew the names of just about every dinosaur by looking at their picture at age 5. I let him watch Jurrasic Park when he was 8 and he freaked out! He had a hard time sleeping for about a week. No matter what I told him, it still scared him badly.
And you don’t see that as highly unusual? That movie was made for 8-year-olds!
Don’t kid yourself, kids are not mature enough to handle some of the stuff in the movies.
You have a point. I generalized based on my personal experience and that was wrong.
Let them be kids.
Why is it I always seem to hear this phrase from parents whose children don’t know how to use cutlery or behave in public? Not saying this is the case with you, but I think this whole “let them be kids” crap has turned into “don’t challenge them at all, and avoid all of their questions that make you feel uncomfortable”.
Why intentionally risk messing up his head because you think it will make him “socially and intellectually ahead of my peers”?
I would never make my daughter watch anything she was uncomfortable with, and now that you’ve mentioned it, I would bypass certain shows/movies until a later age. The thing is, our boob-tube choices are pretty tame at my house, so I have kind of forgotten the breadth and depth of shit in today’s programming; thanks for reminding me.
That being said, if she, at age 7 or 8, was really insistent upon seeing something her mom and I were watching (which would not be The Sopranos or man-licking-boobies; like I said, our choices are pretty tame) I don’t think shoving her in her room and telling her to go to sleep is the answer. I don’t think you give kids enough credit; they pick up on the hypocrisy of this “do as I say not as I do” bullshit pretty early on and it builds up over time. By the time they are in their teens (or sooner) their respect for their parents is all but non-existent. But I digress…
I would let her watch what we are watching and if she had questions, I’d answer them as honestly as I could. If she got scared, bored, confused, etc., so be it. A life lesson I would then point out: Be careful what you wish for. “See? Mom and dad told you watching this wasn’t a good idea for you, but you wanted to see it anyway, so there you go”. I think showing them that you’re right goes a hell of a lot farther than just telling them.
Like the old saying goes, “the truth lies somewhere in the middle”:
I was an unusually bright, well-behaved, and introspective kid and I can’t expect anyone, even my own children to live up to this.
PGJ, you are a grown man still freaked out by a cheesy shark movie you saw as a kid, and your 8-year-old son had a fit over Jurassic Park. I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone that would not find this unusually neurotic.
I am not trying to be insulting here, just pointing out that our points of view are extremely polarized based on our personal experiences. Middle ground here seems to be the answer.
[/quote]
Most of the kids that do these things are not from upper middleclass homes, that is making a huge generalization, they come from all places.
When your 9 or 10 I dont think children need to be watching some guy getting his head beaten in, drinking or smoking or having sex. They should be playing outside.
Im not saying that you shouldnt talk to your children about those things, but I am saying, be responsible, why do you think the laws for movies are what they are? They dont invent them to piss people off, they are there for a reason and thats to tell parents that they are not doing their job.
Like Doogie said, if you let your kids do what they want they will smoke, drink, and have sex at early ages. All I know is that if my folks found me doing any of those as a child they would murder me… and I knew that I better behave.
Well if you were watching the Sopranos or better yet SAW 1 or 2, would you let your daughter watch it?
[quote]
Now, full blown porn is mainstream and thanks to modern special effects violence is as real as it gets.[/quote]
Huh? List the channels. NOW!!