[quote]pookie wrote:
Tank53 wrote:
If Christ never returns, I guess we can put to pasture Christianity and call it junk.
Therein lies the rub. You can never reach “never.” You can always hope for the future (at least until the heat death of the universe or something…)
Jesus said he’d be back during the lifetimes of those he was talking to. Mat 24:34 - “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
Well, the generation passed and the things weren’t fullfilled. See? Christianity disproven. Junked.
One religion down. Who’s next?[/quote]
The whole passage, or whole chapter is about the end of the age. He was refering to His second coming. He even said in verse 9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.” So He said Himself, some of the men sitting there would die.
Then the next moment He said they wouldnt pass away? That doesnt make a lick of sense and anyone could agree with me on that. The whole passage jives with the picture in Revelations with Christs second coming.
In the same passage you mentioned, the word generation is translated from the word that comes to render additionally as “race.” So this race will not pass away before all this happens. Perhaps Jesus’ way of saying the race wont go extinct before He judges it. He comes like a thief in the night, at any given moment. Not waiting for peoples lives to end but interrupting some.
I can continue on to validate this if you’d like. I think taking the very words from the passage and validating the thoughts is more powerful than ripping it out of context for whatever purpose you wish.
-T
You remind me of the guy who constantly complains of shitty service at a restaurant, yet he continues to go to the same restaurant. Maybe you should try a new restaurant.
Plus, I just care. Do I need a reason?
Actually I’m far from that. Sorry to bother you with ALL my complaining, I must not have taken my meds today.
Interesting you care about my behavior patterns or your interpretations of them.
Did I offend you? Please tell me I didn’t…I couldn’t bare to hurt someone else emotionally, and especially while not actually trying.
I’m so sorry. Maybe consult your rock. Hope I didn’t scar it.
No, no, It’s all my fault. I meant no offense. In fact, I hope my rock didn’t offend you either. I know it’s kind of small to be posting pics here, but it’s bulking and the rock will soon post after pics.[/quote]
[quote]Sabrina wrote:
kroby wrote:
What else can this thread do?
Fuck math.
I want it to walk the dogs, go make dinner, fuck me senseless, and clean the bathroom.
High time it made itself useful.
[/quote]
This will cure you of that stuff: The negation of the implication is logically equivalent to the intersection of the negation of the antecedent with the consequent.
[quote]Tank53 wrote:
I can continue on to validate this if you’d like. I think taking the very words from the passage and validating the thoughts is more powerful than ripping it out of context for whatever purpose you wish.[/quote]
Validate? I don’t think so.
I’m quite familiar with the “we need to go back to the Hebrew and Greek words” tactic used to weasel out of inconvenient passages. It comes up almost everytime someone questions a Biblical passage.
If the word used meant “race” why then didn’t the translators use “race” as the translation? Who should I believe? You, a random guy on the internet or Tyndale, who authored the KJV translation?
Jesus said he’d be back before the end of his follower’s generation and he wasn’t. Deal with it using word games if you want, you won’t convince anyone who’s not already a fervent Bible thumper.
hey just a tangent - is anyone aware of the upcoming doco that discusses a text found, that says Judas was a hero of the christ story? The blurb is saying Judas was asked by jesus to betray him, and that Judas’ death by hanging is symbolistic of the death of ego…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The negation of the implication is logically equivalent to the intersection of the negation of the antecedent with the consequent.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Tank53 wrote:
I can continue on to validate this if you’d like. I think taking the very words from the passage and validating the thoughts is more powerful than ripping it out of context for whatever purpose you wish.
Validate? I don’t think so.
I’m quite familiar with the “we need to go back to the Hebrew and Greek words” tactic used to weasel out of inconvenient passages. It comes up almost everytime someone questions a Biblical passage.
If the word used meant “race” why then didn’t the translators use “race” as the translation? Who should I believe? You, a random guy on the internet or Tyndale, who authored the KJV translation?
Jesus said he’d be back before the end of his follower’s generation and he wasn’t. Deal with it using word games if you want, you won’t convince anyone who’s not already a fervent Bible thumper.
[/quote]
According to a program I just saw on the History Channel the generation he may be refering to is the generation in which the Jews return to Israel or Jerusalum.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
According to a program I just saw on the History Channel the generation he may be refering to is the generation in which the Jews return to Israel or Jerusalum.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but last time I checked there are plenty of Jews in Israel and Jerusalem. And they’ve been there for quite a few generations… So where’s Jesus? MIA again. Damn, he’s elusive. Finding Charlie is a lot easier.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
According to a program I just saw on the History Channel the generation he may be refering to is the generation in which the Jews return to Israel or Jerusalum.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but last time I checked there are plenty of Jews in Israel and Jerusalem. And they’ve been there for quite a few generations… So where’s Jesus? MIA again. Damn, he’s elusive. Finding Charlie is a lot easier.
[/quote]
I am not a biblicalscholar, just repeating what I heard.
Perhaps they mean regain rule of Israel, which they did in 1948. That generation is still alive.
As you recall the Romans were in charge in biblical times and I don’t believe the Jews have really been in charge until 1948.
There is also something about rebuilding a temple. That has not been done yet because there isa mosque on the spot.
The clever thing about biblical prophesies is there are a few ways to interpret them so it is impossible to disprove them.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The clever thing about biblical prophesies is there are a few ways to interpret them so it is impossible to disprove them.[/quote]
Yeah, but what good is a vague prophecy? Every psychic in existence knows that their prediction must be vague enough that it’s easy to find something that fits after the fact. Especially if you also use symbolism and poetic phrases when prophesying.
So was Nostradamus. Well written crap is still crap.
Anyone can do that: Let me consult my own private crystal ball:
I predict an earthquake will occur in California in the upcoming week.
I see that at least two hurricanes will hit the south of the continental US before the end of the year.
Another scandal will hit the Bush administration before his current term is over. As usual, no one will be bothered enough to care.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The clever thing about biblical prophesies is there are a few ways to interpret them so it is impossible to disprove them.
Yeah, but what good is a vague prophecy? …[/quote]
What good is it? To make money and boss people around.
I think Christians would get more converts by actually living by the ideals that Jesus held so high, rather than just talking about them, or telling everyone else how they are going to hell. If you lead by example, others will naturally follow you.
I am not interested in getting a bunch of false converts by proclaiming a man-centred, warm and fuzzy, your okay, I’m okay, look how happy Jesus makes us feel kind of message. No one will truly become a Christian until they realize and acknowledge their own sinful state. No one will truly put their trust in Jesus if they don’t understand their need for a savoir.
As for your comment about living the Christian life, I don’t run around sinning all day then log on to T-Nation so I can preach turn or burn sermons. I am living the life that God wants me to live, feeding my soul with Scripture, striving to do as Jesus commanded, allowing God to work on the sin in my life. Yet it doesn’t really matter, all my best efforts would be nothing but garbage in God’s eyes. I am so deeply indebted to Jesus atonement that I will gladly serve Him as his slave for the rest of my life.[/quote]
JPBear thanks for sticking to the faith. I see where you are coming from. Being a Christian is not easy. Most people are a lot more forgiving of Non-Christians than they are of those that proclaim the Christian faith. If you or I sin once we must not be a Christian and are leading the way to hell for being a bad example or spreading a false gospel. The bottom line is that people (me included) don?t like to be told that they are wrong about anything much less the way that they choose to live. Regardless of any other account about Christ, I have my own story. You can argue semantics and the differences between eyewitness accounts but you cannot argue the change in my life after finding and submitting to Christ. The process has taken many years and has been painful at times. I am better for it. You can spend your time feeding the hungry, saving the trees, or anything else that makes the world a better place, but in the end it just makes it a better place to go to Hell from. We as a culture have shown taught our children by example to be man/this world centered and it shows.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
der Koning wrote:
Kailash wrote:
I agree with HeadHunter, and sympathize with anyone who wants to bomb this culture and its morally decrepit fiscal-governmental-cultural institutions.
People take heed, if this guy is serious then he’s perfectly capable of following the path of the 7/7 London bombers.
If I were running this board I would report your IP to the FBI.
I was wondering when someone else was going to shine a light on that. Had certain other people on this board written that, all hell would have broken loose. Because he agreed with someone who considers himself a “conservative Christian”, very little was even said about it.
What exactly is the difference between that line of thinking and the World Trade Center terrorists?
[/quote]
I’m a “Conservative Christian” and I doubt that Jesus would advocate anything like that. We are suppose to follow Christ right?
[quote]I am not a biblicalscholar, just repeating what I heard.
Perhaps they mean regain rule of Israel, which they did in 1948. That generation is still alive.
As you recall the Romans were in charge in biblical times and I don’t believe the Jews have really been in charge until 1948.
There is also something about rebuilding a temple. That has not been done yet because there isa mosque on the spot.
The clever thing about biblical prophesies is there are a few ways to interpret them so it is impossible to disprove them.
The writers of the Bible were pretty sharp.[/quote]
Coming at this from entirely the other angle, I haven’t read much of the bible but I’ve read a fair bit of tacitus and other roman authors.
The way I read it, Israel was not a roman province at the time. Whoever was in control of a patch of the middle east isn’t really all that interesting. The world is not short of people who were pushed around by the romans a few thousand years ago or people living in occupied countries. Wales has been occupied by the English since Owain Glyndwr, for instance.
The fact is that the bible was written over several millenia by possibly the widest variety of authors in history. Many of the events described as history never took place and many of them were originally intended as works of fiction- and the bible is all the better for that.
I don’t believe in god, but I’m convinced that the real value of jesus’ teachings is the way he told people to ignore all the childish bullshit and live with an open mind. That’s what I think anyway. I hope I treated your faith with respect and have a happy easter sunday. Chocolate egg, anyone?
