Heaven is what each individual thinks it is, and then it is that for each of us. Your idea of Heaven is probably diferent from mine, but that doesn’t preclude them from simultaneously existing concurrently. If it can be imagined, God surely can make it exist. About Hell… it is actually Heaven, chosen by those that think suffering, torment and misery is all they could attain, as they are sinful and not deserving of the mercy of God. Let me put it this way… If I choose my final destination as lakes of fire, and I will settle for no less, then it behooves God to grant my wishes. If I choose white fluffy clouds, then so be it. I float around in clouds. A big, endless family reunion? Gotcha. Heaven is all realities (infinity) wrapped up in a singularity. Yes, quite paradoxical. Because it is unexplanable in toto.
There are many people that expect to go to some personal Hell. Their thoughts will guide them there.
I’m not advocating a consequence free society. I’m saying it is possible to live in a society free of consequence when we no longer disrespect God and each other.
[quote]Tank53 wrote:
Either Christ did or didnt die on a cross for the sins of this world. Contrastly, its the only religion in the world that can be proven true. That means if Christ really did all those things mentioned in the Bible, all the rest of its true.
[/quote]
Um… why would EVERYTHING in the bible be automatically poven true if Jesus is in fact the son of god (or is god, depending on which side of the schism you are on) and died for our sins? I would say that would only prove the Gospel true, and would not affect the old testament or other parts of the new testament at all. The fact that the new and old testaments were, in essence, put together by a committee, and many of the books are not otherwise related, means that some may be true and other parts are not.
Personally, I find it much more likely that Jesus died on the cross and Christ had absolutely nothing to do with it.
[quote]Tank53 wrote:
If Christ never returns, I guess we can put to pasture Christianity and call it junk.[/quote]
Therein lies the rub. You can never reach “never.” You can always hope for the future (at least until the heat death of the universe or something…)
Jesus said he’d be back during the lifetimes of those he was talking to. Mat 24:34 - “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
Well, the generation passed and the things weren’t fullfilled. See? Christianity disproven. Junked.
[quote]pookie wrote:
JPBear wrote:
Pookie! There you are. I knew you would show up, since I have never met anyone more fascinated with Christianity.
Actually, I’m more fascinated with religion itself, be it Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.
Learning about all those religions and the ones that preceded them is really an enlightening experience. You see the same common myths being retold and recycled, similar ideas being adopted by neighboring faiths, especially the old, B.C. ones.
The other interesting aspect is the mind-killing aspect of religion. Where matters of faith are concerned, reason and logic are voluntarily suppressed so as not to allow the believer to see a load of nonsense for what it is. It gets to the point that the more nonsensical something is, the better it is, because it requires more “faith” to believe it.
And finally, if you’re going to argue against something, you should at least know what you’re arguing about. I can’t really dismiss the Bible as an old history and moral tales book unless I’ve read it, can I?
Do you really think that I thought that would convert you?
But you came so close![/quote]
Pookie,
This is not BS – that was a very thoughtful and insightful post. I agree that no one else’s experiences can convince someone to believe in God and so forth. You have to see it for yourself.
[quote]kroby wrote:
Is Buddhism a religion, or more a philosophy?[/quote]
Both. It is very much a philosophy of life in harmony with all things. It also puts forth notions such as Nirvana and reincarnation which are similar to articles of faith in other religions.
It remains quite unlike the other faiths, in that it recognizes reason and or experience as trumping faith and beliefs.
I think that any mental images or thoughts that are strong enough at death could kick your essence or soul or spirit into whatever you deem it worthy of going to. Of course I also believe that we transfer for the most part into the 4th dimension after death. In the fourth dimension, thought becomes reality, if you think it it becomes real to you. Therefore it’s probably just that people get trapped in thier own thought process, This also sits well with the theory of spirits haunting houses or whatever. upon death, the people either fail to realize they died or died in a manner where they were fixated on an event or place so strongly that they actually trick themselves into believing that this is thier new reality. When in reality, if they think about something different they will snap out of it. Also this may happen, but anytime they spend away from thier anchor will feel like a dream world to them and they will come back to that familiar place where they feel like they have the most control.
As my good friend kroby was getting at, this could make a very real “hell” for some people but I doubt anyone would be trapped there “forever” a really long time, sure.
Now the other side to this coin which may cause some discomfort to people is that the suicide bombers who have this image of the virgins and the heavan and all that crap when they blow themselves up. My guess is that they probably experience that in the next phase of thier existance, now doesn’t that suck.
V
[edited because myfirst sentance got chopped in half]
You remind me of the guy who constantly complains of shitty service at a restaurant, yet he continues to go to the same restaurant. Maybe you should try a new restaurant.
You remind me of the guy who constantly complains of shitty service at a restaurant, yet he continues to go to the same restaurant. Maybe you should try a new restaurant.
Plus, I just care. Do I need a reason?[/quote]
Actually I’m far from that. Sorry to bother you with ALL my complaining, I must not have taken my meds today.
Interesting you care about my behavior patterns or your interpretations of them.
Did I offend you? Please tell me I didn’t…I couldn’t bare to hurt someone else emotionally, and especially while not actually trying.
I’m so sorry. Maybe consult your rock. Hope I didn’t scar it.
You remind me of the guy who constantly complains of shitty service at a restaurant, yet he continues to go to the same restaurant. Maybe you should try a new restaurant.
Plus, I just care. Do I need a reason?
Actually I’m far from that. Sorry to bother you with ALL my complaining, I must not have taken my meds today.
Interesting you care about my behavior patterns or your interpretations of them.
Did I offend you? Please tell me I didn’t…I couldn’t bare to hurt someone else emotionally, and especially while not actually trying.
I’m so sorry. Maybe consult your rock. Hope I didn’t scar it.
[/quote]
No, no, It’s all my fault. I meant no offense. In fact, I hope my rock didn’t offend you either. I know it’s kind of small to be posting pics here, but it’s bulking and the rock will soon post after pics.
[quote]Bigheadboy wrote:
Tank53 wrote:
Either Christ did or didnt die on a cross for the sins of this world. Contrastly, its the only religion in the world that can be proven true. That means if Christ really did all those things mentioned in the Bible, all the rest of its true.
Um… why would EVERYTHING in the bible be automatically poven true if Jesus is in fact the son of god (or is god, depending on which side of the schism you are on) and died for our sins? I would say that would only prove the Gospel true, and would not affect the old testament or other parts of the new testament at all. The fact that the new and old testaments were, in essence, put together by a committee, and many of the books are not otherwise related, means that some may be true and other parts are not.
Personally, I find it much more likely that Jesus died on the cross and Christ had absolutely nothing to do with it.[/quote]
In fact Jesus did validate OT Scripture. Many times Jesus used Scripture from Genesis onward as cases or arguments against Pharisees, Sadducees, etc. In the book of Matthew, Chapter 5, Jesus said Himself that He never came to abolish the Laws of the OT (like 10 Commandments) but rather to add to them. He encouraged them and re-enforced them.
The two books (OT & NT) are seperated by different covenants made with the people at the time, not put together because a community decided they ought to be together. Its the whole Word of God, from Mount Sinai to the Mount of Olives and onward.
Though Jesus never flat out said “OT is valid”, by His very use, and very often at that, He shows its validity. It was like Him saying, though not actually “this stuff is still applicable and useful and still the very Words of God.” Thats my paraphrase, but I think you get the point.
