[quote]kamui wrote:
at this point, it could be useful to remind our wild gorilla that a capitalist is indeed someone who privately own capital goods (factories, industrials machine, raw materials, etc) and/or natural ressources (land, cattle). [/quote]
Yes, this is a tautological point. Only an owner of the means of production can direct it to any end. A slave is the only person that cannot be a capitalist but on the contrary is just a piece of capital himself.
you still don’t understand what a “capitalist” (or a “mean or production”) is.
but at least, this time, you managed to understand what a slave is.
we are making (slow) progress here.
When I say man is a capitalist it only refers to man in his economic capacity: that he labors, that he saves, that he tries to save labor, that he consumes what he produces. Essentially, he is a capitalist in that he seeks to economize the means of production.
it may be a definition of “economic rationality”. it’s not a definiton of capitalism.
you may think it’s the same thing, it won’t make it true.
Could it be the accepted definition of capitalism is too narrow?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the accepted definition of capitalism is too narrow?[/quote]
Is it possible that there is another concept that encompasses what you are trying to describe?
[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the accepted definition of capitalism is too narrow?[/quote]
Is it possible that there is another concept that encompasses what you are trying to describe?
[/quote]
I believe all the concepts of economic action are tied to each other and cannot stand alone.
yup… pretty ambitious.
Well, good luck with your doctoral thesis!
yup… pretty ambitious.
Well, good luck with your doctoral thesis!
Sometimes you people are way out there and have no idea what you’re talking about.
This place never ceases to amaze.
[quote]Agressive Napkin wrote:
Sometimes you people are way out there and have no idea what you’re talking about.
[/quote]
But you do, right?
You have nothing of value to add here. Go post boob pics in SAMA.
Yes I am a capitalist. Thanks for noticing.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
Yes I am a capitalist. Thanks for noticing.[/quote]
You is the debil and I am pretty sure that you masturbate while putting small babies in a blender.
Hint:
Feet first, so you can see their faces when you come.
Yup, I am goin to hell.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Since every human pursuit requires the employment of capital and the delaying of consumption in order to bring that capital about every person who works (produces marketable goods) or saves the fruits of his labor for future consumption must be considered a capitalist.
In fact, it is impossible to even produce labor without delaying consumption: learning a trade or going to college requires delaying consumption in that we give up entering the work force and the subsequent wage we would expect from said employment and thus also the consumption that that wage allows.
We do this only because we expect a higher utility (that is greater possibility to consume) from the investment of out time and energy in the future.[/quote]
Well if your definition became the norm, another term would be used to describe what I call capitalist. It could be profiteer, owner, neo-aristocracy or we could go back to the old burgeois. Next time we discuss I should remember this and dont use the term capitalist, but neo-aristocracy ( its the coolest of the substitut terms ).
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Since every human pursuit requires the employment of capital and the delaying of consumption in order to bring that capital about every person who works (produces marketable goods) or saves the fruits of his labor for future consumption must be considered a capitalist.
In fact, it is impossible to even produce labor without delaying consumption: learning a trade or going to college requires delaying consumption in that we give up entering the work force and the subsequent wage we would expect from said employment and thus also the consumption that that wage allows.
We do this only because we expect a higher utility (that is greater possibility to consume) from the investment of out time and energy in the future.[/quote]
Well if your definition became the norm, another term would be used to describe what I call capitalist. It could be profiteer, owner, neo-aristocracy or we could go back to the old burgeois. Next time we discuss I should remember this and dont use the term capitalist, but neo-aristocracy ( its the coolest of the substitut terms ).[/quote]
Do you know how the super-wealthy become part of the aristocracy? By entrenching themselves in government.
They are all pretty much supporters of government intervention in the market.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Agressive Napkin wrote:
Sometimes you people are way out there and have no idea what you’re talking about.
[/quote]
But you do, right?
You have nothing of value to add here. Go post boob pics in SAMA.[/quote]
From Wikipedia:
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for a private profit; decisions regarding supply, demand, price, distribution, and investments are made by private actors in the free market; profit is distributed to owners who invest in businesses, and wages are paid to workers employed by businesses and companies.
While this tacitly includes delaying consumption and all that other stuff you were talking about, so do other economic systems. You think you don’t delay consumption in a communist or mixed market? Please.
You seem to be saying that people maximize their utility, which (as someone already pointed out) makes them a rational economic agent, not necessarily a capitalist.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Since every human pursuit requires the employment of capital and the delaying of consumption in order to bring that capital about every person who works (produces marketable goods) or saves the fruits of his labor for future consumption must be considered a capitalist.
In fact, it is impossible to even produce labor without delaying consumption: learning a trade or going to college requires delaying consumption in that we give up entering the work force and the subsequent wage we would expect from said employment and thus also the consumption that that wage allows.
We do this only because we expect a higher utility (that is greater possibility to consume) from the investment of out time and energy in the future.[/quote]
Is your point that no one has a right to complain about the disadvantages and problems within our capitalist system, because they participate in it?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Since every human pursuit requires the employment of capital and the delaying of consumption in order to bring that capital about every person who works (produces marketable goods) or saves the fruits of his labor for future consumption must be considered a capitalist.
In fact, it is impossible to even produce labor without delaying consumption: learning a trade or going to college requires delaying consumption in that we give up entering the work force and the subsequent wage we would expect from said employment and thus also the consumption that that wage allows.
We do this only because we expect a higher utility (that is greater possibility to consume) from the investment of out time and energy in the future.[/quote]
Is your point that no one has a right to complain about the disadvantages and problems within our capitalist system, because they participate in it?[/quote]
No, my point is that if it is inherent in our nature to be capitalistic we ought not implement policies that do not allow us to fully attain our nature.
[quote]Agressive Napkin wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Agressive Napkin wrote:
Sometimes you people are way out there and have no idea what you’re talking about.
[/quote]
But you do, right?
You have nothing of value to add here. Go post boob pics in SAMA.[/quote]
From Wikipedia:
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for a private profit; decisions regarding supply, demand, price, distribution, and investments are made by private actors in the free market; profit is distributed to owners who invest in businesses, and wages are paid to workers employed by businesses and companies.
While this tacitly includes delaying consumption and all that other stuff you were talking about, so do other economic systems. You think you don’t delay consumption in a communist or mixed market? Please.
You seem to be saying that people maximize their utility, which (as someone already pointed out) makes them a rational economic agent, not necessarily a capitalist.[/quote]
Good thing there is wikipedia for the simple minded to copy and paste from…
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
my point is that if it is inherent in our nature to be capitalistic we ought not implement policies that do not allow us to fully attain our nature.[/quote]
That is very well said.