Yeah, I'm Gay...and I Love a Muscle Guy!

[ZEB]

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
It’s kind of like the so-called war on drugs, which also hasn’t worked too well.[/quote]

Actually my idea is not at all like the war on drugs. We are looking at a specific crime which is committed against a specific person. Also, it matters not if there is a homicide. Anyone who knowingly spreads HIV should have an automatic sentence doled out to them if there is a death while the person is serving his long sentence then that sentence automatically becomes life.

This would be the beginning of the end of the selfish bastards spreading this horriffc disease.

[makkun]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m not suggesting that. On the same token if someone knows that they’re infected with HIV and willingly passes the virus on to another through some sort of sexual intercourse that person should be handed a jail sentence.[/quote]

Ahem, just saying, that’s not really a question at all. I’m pretty sure there have been convictions for consciously infecting someone with HIV. There have been in Germany, I’m pretty sure in Britain - I’d be surprised if not in the US. Why is this raised as hypothetical?

Makkun

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

My view of marriage is much older than, about 2000 to 5000 years old. And, I would have to disagree, irrationality comes with tunnel vision.
[/quote]

You’re view of marriage dates back to a time when men had multiple wives and/or concubines. So much for the sanctity of marriage.

If gay dudes want to sodomize each other who gives a fuck? If straight people want to have anal sex who gives a fuck? It comes down to personal responsibility of the individual to take care of themselves.

Okay, there is only one kind of marriage. Between a man and a woman, this is how it has been for centuries…

I thought your view of marriage dates back a couple thousand years? Which one is it?
[/quote]

It is pretty clear in the Bible and in doctrine on how things are supposed to go down in Marriage.

No, it is not coercion. To allow people to be free, does not mean I have to a pacifist. It’s called shunning, or having a choice of not living or dealing or even talking with people that deal in certain dangerous behavior. I think you forget the teachings of Murray and Mises both. Both advocated shunning or out casting individuals as the appropriate behavior for ill tempered members of society. As well as Lord Acton talked on it as well.

Well, this makes sense if one comes to the conclusion that gay people are doing anything “ill tempered”, which isn’t this case.

Are within my society.

[quote]

Again lack of reading, Economics is about figuring out if policy will truthfully do as it is supposed to do. And the Austrian school of thought is that Anarchy or limited Government is best. I agree. Economics goes through a utilitarian view of things. However, the Australian School also advocates that Natural Law is needed so as to understand that with freedom, comes responsibilities and consequences.

No one is arguing otherwise.

Natural Law is morals, Aquinas wrote about it. St. Aquinas, the guy in my avatar, the man that Mises, Murray, Rand, Hayek, Garret, Action, &c studied. Aristotle as well, all these men studied Aristotle, they taught about the very morals that are exemplified in Natural Law, and the Austrian School of Economics.

Cool

Where have I once said the state should do anything? That’s right, I was in fact talking about religion[/quote]

And here is where we stop. It’s been real, but I will not discuss this any further if you are going do so from that particular perspective.

[ZEB]

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m not suggesting that. On the same token if someone knows that they’re infected with HIV and willingly passes the virus on to another through some sort of sexual intercourse that person should be handed a jail sentence.[/quote]

Ahem, just saying, that’s not really a question at all. I’m pretty sure there have been convictions for consciously infecting someone with HIV. There have been in Germany, I’m pretty sure in Britain - I’d be surprised if not in the US. Why is this raised as hypothetical?

Makkun[/quote]

Tell me, how many people get prosecuted for this in the US? Do you know? I’ll give you a hint, very few.

[Ct_Rockula]

What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

[Ct_Rockula]

You guys just know that eventually we will be having this debate

“Marraige is a bond between two humans”

“God made Adam and Eve bot Adam and Mr. Snuggles”.

[aussie486]

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
You guys just know that eventually we will be having this debate

“Marraige is a bond between two humans”

“God made Adam and Eve bot Adam and Mr. Snuggles”.[/quote]

Stop it now, common sense will not be tolerated in this discussion, jeeez some people.

[OctoberGirl]

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call[/quote]

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.

[ZEB]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[OctoberGirl]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

Zeb, I don’t know if I would be in favor for incestuous civil unions. I do think you are given to hyperbole.

You seem to set a big precedent on tradition so you must know that in some cultures it was the tradition for brothers to marry sisters or nieces to marry uncles, even mothers to marry sons. Not to mention in the Bible there were some pretty ugly scenes of daughter abuse.

[orion]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

You do know that they could have children without marriage and once they are that far down that road they probably do not care whether they are married or not?

I also resent the idea that men with guns have to regulate ever aspect of our lifes so that the most stupid do not hurt themselves.

Also, this makes an excellent case egainst mandatory insurance, if however a company wishes to insure you against the risks of an incestuous relationship, more power to it.

Any other strawmen you wish to put put there?

[jsbrook]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

Whatever. The constitutional hurdles are the same. Rational basis, intermediate scrutiny, or if the class is protected, strict scrutiny. If ever we reach a point where those who have sexual feelings for animals or the tv remote are a protected class OR we can’t determine some rational government interest for outlawing such conduct, we’ve got a lot bigger problems. And deserve whatever we get.

I hold no stock with these absurdist slippery slope agruments.

[jsbrook]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

And those are rational, legitimate government interests right there and reason enough to outlaw such practices. Sorry that the lower courts have entensively found no similar ones exist that justify restricting marriage to opposite sex couples. Try a conservative district or make a better record and present some actual evidence that is somewhat compelling.

[jsbrook]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
It’s kind of like the so-called war on drugs, which also hasn’t worked too well.[/quote]

Actually my idea is not at all like the war on drugs. We are looking at a specific crime which is committed against a specific person. Also, it matters not if there is a homicide. Anyone who knowingly spreads HIV should have an automatic sentence doled out to them if there is a death while the person is serving his long sentence then that sentence automatically becomes life.

This would be the beginning of the end of the selfish bastards spreading this horriffc disease.
[/quote]

Who disagrees with you? What is your point? How often does this happen? Probably almost never. Where it does, homicide laws across the country (which do cover attempt) would fit the bill.

Here’s one example right here:

Indiana Man Charged With Intentionally Spreading HIV

http://www.bilerico.com/2010/02/hiv_man_arrested_for_intentionally_infecting_100_w.php

This guy was charged under a specific Indiana law for purposely spreading communicable diseases (a Class D felony) but homicide laws would fit the bill just as well or better.

[Sloth]

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

And those are rational, legitimate government interests right there and reason enough to outlaw such practices. Sorry that the lower courts have entensively found no similar ones exist that justify restricting marriage to opposite sex couples. Try a conservative district or make a better record and present some actual evidence that is somewhat compelling. [/quote]

Fortunately, homosexual incest doesn’t present the same problem.

[jsbrook]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

And those are rational, legitimate government interests right there and reason enough to outlaw such practices. Sorry that the lower courts have entensively found no similar ones exist that justify restricting marriage to opposite sex couples. Try a conservative district or make a better record and present some actual evidence that is somewhat compelling. [/quote]

Fortunately, homosexual incest doesn’t present the same problem.
[/quote]

Sloth, I’m glad to see you are supporting civil rights. Can I expect to see you on the front lines with signs in favor of homosexual incest sometime soon?

[Sloth]

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

Sloth, I’m glad to see you are supporting civil rights. Can I expect to see you on the front lines with signs in favor of homosexual incest sometime soon?[/quote]

Oh yeah. I’m doing my part to have marriage extended to all possible human relationships between consenting adults. None of this lawerly and arbitrary, “Well, the polyamorous orientated can enter into two person marriages if they wish, so no discrimination there!” The marriage bigots will say the same about gays being able to enter into hetero marriages. Nope, none of that bigotry-light for me! I’m the real deal civil rights activist. “Everything equal, or I’ll start cutting myself in despair!”

In fact, I’d redefine marriage in the government dictionary to mean “citizen.” Now no human relationship is treated different, and we can all avoid discrimination and bigotry, saving our souls from the burning pit in which Klu Klux Klan members and Nazis are cast down into.

Lol.

[Sloth]

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.[/quote]

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

[/quote]

And those are rational, legitimate government interests right there and reason enough to outlaw such practices. Sorry that the lower courts have entensively found no similar ones exist that justify restricting marriage to opposite sex couples. Try a conservative district or make a better record and present some actual evidence that is somewhat compelling. [/quote]

Oh, and this exchange stereotypes sister-brother marriages as necessarily including sex. Being consenting adults, and with it being no business of the government, the two can marry and NOT have sex with each other, satisfying those needs outside of their living arrangement. Or is this all about using the government to put a stamp of approval on homosexual sex, period?

[ZEB]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
ZEB wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
What will stop me from marrying another species if gay marraige is moved forward? My puppy and I love each other very much…don’t we deserve to be happy?

AND Polygmy has to be the norm too

I’m trying to marry a bunch of puppies

you cant stop my love its not your call

I wouldn’t care if you wanted to enjoin yourself in a polygamous civil union with consenting adults.

You can’t prove the puppies are consenting, or adult, something people need to be to enter into a contract, so no you can’t enter into your ridiculous analogy.

But you can with incestuous relationships, if both brother and sister are consenting adults, right?

Would you care to pay even higher insurance bills and watch the crime rate go up because of the ill and deranged children that such a union would produce? Sure why not? We have to let everyone do whatever it is they want, right?

I wonder how low we can sink in this country before, well, we sink?

Zeb, I don’t know if I would be in favor for incestuous civil unions. I do think you are given to hyperbole.

You seem to set a big precedent on tradition so you must know that in some cultures it was the tradition for brothers to marry sisters or nieces to marry uncles, even mothers to marry sons.[/quote]

Yes, I am aware of this. And in some cultures they pray to snakes, and still others used to throw virgins into volcano’s. Now how does this make for a better America? Oh yea, it doesn’t.

[ZEB]

[quote]orion wrote:

I also resent the idea that men with guns have to regulate ever aspect of our lifes so that the most stupid do not hurt themselves.[/quote]

Firstly, we rise, or fall together. There has been no great civilization that has risen higher because a brother and sister get to marry, or have sexual relations together.

Secondly, what sort of society do you want to live in. For example, If someone abuses his dog who lives 100 miles from you, it’s not going to effect you, but do you want him to do it? How about child abuse? At what point does involvement become necessary?

Finally, how naive to think that eventually you will not in some way pay for the stupidity of others. Better to at least attempt to prevent it, or at least curtail the most negative costly activities.