Yanni's 5/3/1

This was my original post, just for a recap…

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
As for the plan, I will be following C_C’s suggestions for a template in another thread:

OHP Day
Military Press 5/3/1
Pullups
Seated cable rows
Close grip bench press

DL Day
DL 5/3/1
Leg extensions [/quote] I put those in mainly for advanced guys who use a lot of weight on the DL and are too shot for any real intense quad work. If you’re a beginner, put leg presses or hack machine squats here.
That being said, this is not really a beginner routine… You’re better off repeating exercises more often as a beginner and with simply progressive-overload principles, no need for periodization. [quote]
Pinwheels
Abwork (planks, russian twists) [/quote] EZ/Ab wheel rollouts + some weighted exercise (pulldown abs, whatever), none of that twist-nonsense. [quote]

BP Day
BP 5/3/1
Dips [/quote] Mh… I’d suggest some overhead press + Dead Stop Extensions or so here. [quote]
Pullups
Kroc rows

Squat Day
Alternating curls
S 5/3/1
Straight leg DLs [/quote] Semi-Stiff/straight you mean :slight_smile: [quote]
Abwork (side planks, HLR) [/quote] See above[quote]
Seated calf raises

Weights/first impressions/etc come Wednesday.
Advice welcome in the meantime![/quote]

Well, I did suggest some possible changes… But to be honest, you’re better off with Big Beyond Belief (modified perhaps, or just the standard 6 day version) or some such. Get back to this thing when you’re in the intermediate stage or if you don’t have the time for BBB.

[quote]ravell wrote:
Any reason why the only leg accessory work you’re doing is leg extensions and sldl’s? Being newer to strength training I don’t see how those will hold up in the long run as assistance excercise.
[/quote] The choices he made weren’t exactly optimal, but it’s also not meant as a routine for very weak and inexperienced guys.
If I’m pulling or squatting big numbers for reps, then I don’t usually want to do multiple draining assistance exercises afterwards…
Still, the main point is to get strong on a few key movements per muscle-group and to hit everything roughly 3 times in 2 weeks (originally, the template was meant to be done EOD with weekends off, just like regular 5/3/1… But a beginner could work with weekly waves instead and thus train everything twice a week).

[quote]
Furthermore, there’s a large disparity between the accessory work for upper body vs. lower body in terms of load and frequency[/quote] Not really… You hit every major muscle-group every other workout with 1 exercise (exception being back, which is split into width, i.e. lats, for bar-path stability on the bench, and thickness… Rows are supposed to be done with scap retraction being part of each rep, i.e. to strengthen that area and avoid shoulders slipping out from under you on the bench.
That being said, if someone has very weak hams, he could add a second ham exercise… Though you could just as well do something more intense in terms of sets/reps or whatever on your existing ham assistance movement.
The idea is to get stronger as fast as possible, not turn it into a muscle and fiction routine with 4x12 at the same weight on everything, after all.
Conv. Deadlifts are basically the second ham exercise in a wave, alternatively you can go sumo or whatever…
Assitance work changes depending on what you chose as your main exercise that day etc, hence this being a routine for guys who already know their way around the gym. Gotta have enough common sense to figure out what you need to chose for assistance work.[quote]. . You have two pulling excercises (one horizontal/one vertical) each upperbody day and 1 pushing excercise. This is not bad. BUT you only have a few sets of leg extensions and sldl’s for the entire week to count as your lower body accessory? [/quote]
No real need to do a lot of extra quad work (though I still would opt for leg presses or some such in his case instead of extensions) if you’re already progressing well on your raw back squats or front squats or whatever you use as your main squat movement.

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
10/13/09
Deadlift
5x155
5x175
16x205 [/quote] Pretty safe to say that you can bump your weight up on that one. Try +20 lbs at first, then another 20 next wave if the reps are still over 10. [quote]

Leg extension
8x140
5x160
3x180
8x200 [/quote] Well, they can work indeed, but go with something else (or switch to BBB) [quote]

Pinwheels
2x10x20 db
1x20x40 db
[/quote] Ok, for a complete beginner, you may wanna add a second exercise here or so… Bit of a difference when you’re doing one set with the 40’s and someone else is using the 135’s. So add some more bicep-focused curl, maybe HS machine or so. On the other lower body day, add some hammer curl variant perhaps. [quote]
Russian Twists [/quote] Nah man, something heavy. You need a strong core, plus some rollouts for the transversus. [quote]
2x20[/quote]

10/15/09
Bench Press
5x100
5x115
13x130

40 pullups
50 dips

Kroc rows
2x10x30 db
1x21x60 db

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
10/13/09
Deadlift
5x155
5x175
16x205 Pretty safe to say that you can bump your weight up on that one. Try +20 lbs at first, then another 20 next wave if the reps are still over 10.

Leg extension
8x140
5x160
3x180
8x200 Well, they can work indeed, but go with something else (or switch to BBB)

Pinwheels
2x10x20 db
1x20x40 db
Ok, for a complete beginner, you may wanna add a second exercise here or so… Bit of a difference when you’re doing one set with the 40’s and someone else is using the 135’s. So add some more bicep-focused curl, maybe HS machine or so. On the other lower body day, add some hammer curl variant perhaps.
Russian Twists Nah man, something heavy. You need a strong core, plus some rollouts for the transversus.
2x20

[/quote]

thanks for the input CC.

i think i want to stick with this 5/3/1 for now at least, and modify it as needed. time-wise and more importantly, mentality-wise, i think i am enjoy this quite a bit. obviously, might change my mind at some point but for now, it’s 5/3/1.

that said, here are my take-home messages/questions:

DL day

  1. bump up the weight (ok)
  2. sub leg press for leg extension. I m wondering if it makes sense to add presses and extension on DL day. I think I can go for more on the LEs and see if i can handle the presses as well. does this make sense to you?
  3. pins. i saw the vid of that beastly soldier. my body english is far less. trying to get a feel for how to do it with a weight i feel very comfortable using in a controlled way… what other curl do you think i need to add?
  4. pulldowns+rollouts-> check. any sort of rep/set i should be thinking about?

SQ day

  1. add hammer curls
  2. add ab pulldowns and rollouts as above

BP day
Ideas on what to sub for dips? Also, what’s the rationale behind that? curious…

MP day
suggestions?

Alright, will take your advice to heart, especially if i read it before squats tomorrow.

time to make an account on your thread and start the bill running it seems…

Yanni

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
10/15/09
Bench Press
5x100
5x115
13x130

40 pullups
50 dips [/quote] A ton of bodyweight dips/pullups aren’t really all that useful for the program… Use extra weight. [quote]

Kroc rows
2x10x30 db
1x21x60 db[/quote]

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
10/15/09
Bench Press
5x100
5x115
13x130

40 pullups
50 dips A ton of bodyweight dips/pullups aren’t really all that useful for the program… Use extra weight.

Kroc rows
2x10x30 db
1x21x60 db

[/quote]

damn that was quick. do you get an alert? or should i haul you from your thread?

i appreciate if you keep taking a look every now and then and offer advice (for a price;)

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
10/13/09
Deadlift
5x155
5x175
16x205 Pretty safe to say that you can bump your weight up on that one. Try +20 lbs at first, then another 20 next wave if the reps are still over 10.

Leg extension
8x140
5x160
3x180
8x200 Well, they can work indeed, but go with something else (or switch to BBB)

Pinwheels
2x10x20 db
1x20x40 db
Ok, for a complete beginner, you may wanna add a second exercise here or so… Bit of a difference when you’re doing one set with the 40’s and someone else is using the 135’s. So add some more bicep-focused curl, maybe HS machine or so. On the other lower body day, add some hammer curl variant perhaps.
Russian Twists Nah man, something heavy. You need a strong core, plus some rollouts for the transversus.
2x20

thanks for the input CC.

i think i want to stick with this 5/3/1 for now at least, and modify it as needed. time-wise and more importantly, mentality-wise, i think i am enjoy this quite a bit. obviously, might change my mind at some point but for now, it’s 5/3/1.

that said, here are my take-home messages/questions:

DL day

  1. bump up the weight (ok)
  2. sub leg press for leg extension. I m wondering if it makes sense to add presses and extension on DL day. I think I can go for more on the LEs and see if i can handle the presses as well. does this make sense to you?[/quote] Well, technically Back Squats are your quad exercise on Squat day (due to squatting raw, you can’t go super-wide and sit back as much as someone who lifts with a squat suit, so it’s more quad involvement). You could add something, but again, the important part is to get stronger while doing a decent amount of reps… [quote]
  3. pins. i saw the vid of that beastly soldier. my body english is far less. trying to get a feel for how to do it with a weight i feel very comfortable using in a controlled way… what other curl do you think i need to add? [/quote] Note: All positives are done explosively, all negatives in a controlled (doesn’t mean super-slow or anything) fashion.
    As for an additional curl, Pinwheels are a brachialis/brachioradialis -focused curl… So go with Incline Offset Curls or Concentration curls (elbow non-supported) or some such as your second curl.[quote]
  4. pulldowns+rollouts-> check. any sort of rep/set i should be thinking about? [/quote] 2x15-20 on the pulldown abs perhaps for now… Rollouts are a bit of an individual thing. Try working your way up to 20 at first, then more over time. [quote]

SQ day

  1. add hammer curls
  2. add ab pulldowns and rollouts as above

BP day
Ideas on what to sub for dips? Also, what’s the rationale behind that? curious…
[/quote] (bent-over overhead rope extensions or PJR’s or dead extensions or whatever, could also be a press if you feel like doing that much heavy pressing per week, in-humans and swrgb’s help in that case as your shoulders aren’t stressed as much) [quote]
MP day
suggestions?
[/quote] do Pin CGP’s or some such instead of regular CGP. Set the safety pins high enough to take the shoulders mostly out of the movement while still allowing for enough ROM, that’d be roughly at 2-3 board height. And you can add laterals there for the fun of it, if you want.[quote]
Alright, will take your advice to heart, especially if i read it before squats tomorrow.

time to make an account on your thread and start the bill running it seems…

Yanni[/quote]

Ok, good luck.

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
10/15/09
Bench Press
5x100
5x115
13x130

40 pullups
50 dips A ton of bodyweight dips/pullups aren’t really all that useful for the program… Use extra weight.

Kroc rows
2x10x30 db
1x21x60 db

damn that was quick. do you get an alert? or should i haul you from your thread? [/quote] My spies informed me… Nah, I was just checking some other logs and noticed you’d updated yours. [quote]

i appreciate if you keep taking a look every now and then and offer advice (for a price;)[/quote]

Yeah, the price being paid by myself as usual :slight_smile:

Anyway… You better make sure you learn proper squatting, pressing and deadlifting technique. Some videos of yourself for critique on here will help, also check dave Tate’s bench article on here (a video, actually) and so on.

10/17/09
Alt curls
8x25
5x30
3x35
8x40

Squat
5x145
5x170
5x190 first go got 2, had to rerack, went again, got 5:(

SLDL
8x35
5x155
3x175
8x195

Hammer Curls
8x30
5x35
3x40
8x45

Seated calf raises
8x55
5x65
3x95
8x115

Ab pulldowns
3x15x70

Rollouts
20 from a kneeling position

Thinking of changing squat into hack squat so i can actually lift the weight my quads can, at least till i find someone who can coach me how to squat properly. youtube vids ain’t doing it.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
10/13/09
Deadlift
5x155
5x175
16x205 Pretty safe to say that you can bump your weight up on that one. Try +20 lbs at first, then another 20 next wave if the reps are still over 10.

Leg extension
8x140
5x160
3x180
8x200 Well, they can work indeed, but go with something else (or switch to BBB)

Pinwheels
2x10x20 db
1x20x40 db
Ok, for a complete beginner, you may wanna add a second exercise here or so… Bit of a difference when you’re doing one set with the 40’s and someone else is using the 135’s. So add some more bicep-focused curl, maybe HS machine or so. On the other lower body day, add some hammer curl variant perhaps.
Russian Twists Nah man, something heavy. You need a strong core, plus some rollouts for the transversus.
2x20

thanks for the input CC.

i think i want to stick with this 5/3/1 for now at least, and modify it as needed. time-wise and more importantly, mentality-wise, i think i am enjoy this quite a bit. obviously, might change my mind at some point but for now, it’s 5/3/1.

that said, here are my take-home messages/questions:

DL day

  1. bump up the weight (ok)
  2. sub leg press for leg extension. I m wondering if it makes sense to add presses and extension on DL day. I think I can go for more on the LEs and see if i can handle the presses as well. does this make sense to you?

Well, technically Back Squats are your quad exercise on Squat day (due to squatting raw, you can’t go super-wide and sit back as much as someone who lifts with a squat suit, so it’s more quad involvement). You could add something, but again, the important part is to get stronger while doing a decent amount of reps…

  1. pins. i saw the vid of that beastly soldier. my body english is far less. trying to get a feel for how to do it with a weight i feel very comfortable using in a controlled way… what other curl do you think i need to add? Note: All positives are done explosively, all negatives in a controlled (doesn’t mean super-slow or anything) fashion.

As for an additional curl, Pinwheels are a brachialis/brachioradialis -focused curl… So go with Incline Offset Curls or Concentration curls (elbow non-supported) or some such as your second curl.
4) pulldowns+rollouts-> check. any sort of rep/set i should be thinking about? 2x15-20 on the pulldown abs perhaps for now… Rollouts are a bit of an individual thing. Try working your way up to 20 at first, then more over time.

SQ day

  1. add hammer curls
  2. add ab pulldowns and rollouts as above

BP day
Ideas on what to sub for dips? Also, what’s the rationale behind that? curious…
(bent-over overhead rope extensions or PJR’s or dead extensions or whatever, could also be a press if you feel like doing that much heavy pressing per week, in-humans and swrgb’s help in that case as your shoulders aren’t stressed as much)
MP day
suggestions?
do Pin CGP’s or some such instead of regular CGP. Set the safety pins high enough to take the shoulders mostly out of the movement while still allowing for enough ROM, that’d be roughly at 2-3 board height. And you can add laterals there for the fun of it, if you want.
Alright, will take your advice to heart, especially if i read it before squats tomorrow.

time to make an account on your thread and start the bill running it seems…

Yanni

Ok, good luck. [/quote]

like i said, i think maybe hack squats may be better for the 5/3/1 squat? less technique involved, and might do the trick till i find someone to teach me. at the college gym where i am training, not many do squats, pretty much nobody goes heavy…

10/19/09
Military Press
5x75
5x85
7x95

Seated cable row
8x120
5x130
3x140
8x150

pin BP
8x95
5x115
3x135
5x155

^that was tough… on the other hand, i didn’t have much time too…

10/20/09
Deadlift
5x180
5x210
6x235 (grip/forearms gave before anything else)

Leg Press
8x140
5x160
3x180
8x200 (will up this by 20 next time…)

Leg extension
8x180
5x200
3x220
8x240

Pinwheels
2x10x20 db
1x20x40 db

Pulldowns
2x15x70

Conc. curls (non-elbow supported per CC’s suggestion)
8x25
5x30
3x35
5x40

Rollouts
2x10x80

Rack pulls (masochist with some time to kill)
5x225
5x245
5x265
tried 2x285…
3x5x225

10/21/09

Complex (just pulled one out of T-Nation, open to ideas)
Deadlift
Rom. deadlift
Bent row
Power clean
Front squat
Military press
Back squat
Good morning

65 pounds, 5 reps each exercise, 5 rounds, 90" in between rounds

then… biked for 15’/4.5 miles
and lots of stretching…

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
10/20/09
Deadlift
5x180
5x210
6x235 (grip/forearms gave before anything else) [/quote] If you’re not in this for the powerlifting part and you’re going double-overhand, then use straps on your last set… [quote]

Leg Press
8x140
5x160
3x180
8x200 (will up this by 20 next time…)

Leg extension
8x180
5x200
3x220
8x240

Pinwheels
2x10x20 db
1x20x40 db

Pulldowns
2x15x70

Conc. curls (non-elbow supported per CC’s suggestion)
8x25
5x30
3x35
5x40

Rollouts
2x10x80

Rack pulls (masochist with some time to kill)
5x225
5x245
5x265
tried 2x285…
3x5x225
[/quote]

I’d avoid doing that much in a single session… If you can’t do some exercises on an upper body day due to time constraints, either shift your training days around (i.e. tue, thur, sat instead of mon, wed, fri) or just leave them out that one time.

[quote]yannipapal wrote:
10/21/09

Complex (just pulled one out of T-Nation, open to ideas)
Deadlift
Rom. deadlift
Bent row
Power clean
Front squat
Military press
Back squat
Good morning

65 pounds, 5 reps each exercise, 5 rounds, 90" in between rounds

then… biked for 15’/4.5 miles
and lots of stretching…
[/quote]

Hey, as long as you don’t fuck your recovery up…

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
10/20/09
Deadlift
5x180
5x210
6x235 (grip/forearms gave before anything else) If you’re not in this for the powerlifting part and you’re going double-overhand, then use straps on your last set…[/quote]

I think I’ll give it a go sans straps on the 1+ set next week and will consider getting straps if I don’t see something different

[quote]Rack pulls (masochist with some time to kill)
5x225
5x245
5x265
tried 2x285…
3x5x225

I’d avoid doing that much in a single session… If you can’t do some exercises on an upper body day due to time constraints, either shift your training days around (i.e. tue, thur, sat instead of mon, wed, fri) or just leave them out that one time.
[/quote]

Yeah, MP day was kind of a bust because of my weird schedule for that day. I don’t expect it to happen again any time soon, but if it became a frequent event, I would definitely consider switching up days. I did do less on Monday (MP) but man, was I itching for something to do on Tuesday (DL) and i figured i’d give rack pulls a try :slight_smile:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yannipapal wrote:
Hey, as long as you don’t fuck your recovery up…
[/quote]

I hear you. Just experimenting a bit :slight_smile:

10/22/09
Bench Press
3x110
3x125
8x140

30 Pullups (gym doesnt have a belt so i am making do with pullups… though I am thinking whether rack pulls might be better…)

PJR
8x25,30,35,40,45 (feeling the weights, will probably go for higher #s next time)

Kroc rows
2x10x30 db
1x20x65 db