WTF Penn State?!?!?!

Off Topic
741

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Sandusky’s lawyer allegedly impregnated a minor when he was 44. Some sick club these bastards are in.[/quote]

He didnt ‘allegedly’ impregnant his eventual WIFE. He DID impregnate her, twice.

Obviously, in the U.S., it’s abnormal for a 40 something year old to marry a 16-17 year old but the age of consent in PA is 16.

The age of consent in Mexico is 12 in many states/provinces/regions whatever. 14 for many European countries. Im sure someone can find a place where it’s even lower.

Judge the guy how you please, but it is not in the same universe as raping 20+ prepubescent boys.

Edit.

Canada raised the age of consent from 14 to 16.

Guess when

What’s your point again? [/quote]

The lawyers’ actions would still be considered illegal in Canada. It’s illegal to bang someone under the age of 18 when you’re an authority figure over them or in a position of trust.

But yes, banging a a 16 year old girl and a 10 year old boy are not in the same ballpark.

742

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Sandusky’s lawyer allegedly impregnated a minor when he was 44. Some sick club these bastards are in.[/quote]

He didnt ‘allegedly’ impregnant his eventual WIFE. He DID impregnate her, twice.

Obviously, in the U.S., it’s abnormal for a 40 something year old to marry a 16-17 year old but the age of consent in PA is 16.

The age of consent in Mexico is 12 in many states/provinces/regions whatever. 14 for many European countries. Im sure someone can find a place where it’s even lower.

Judge the guy how you please, but it is not in the same universe as raping 20+ prepubescent boys.

Edit.

Canada raised the age of consent from 14 to 16.

Guess when

What’s your point again? [/quote]

The lawyers’ actions would still be considered illegal in Canada. It’s illegal to bang someone under the age of 18 when you’re an authority figure over them or in a position of trust.

[/quote]

That wasnt my point at all. I didnt post that to say that what the lawyer did would be legal in Canada as well. It was just to point out that ‘impregnating a minor’ doesnt come close to saying what actually happened.

743

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
EXCERPT
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2011-11/penn-state-scandal/story/email-tv-talk-add-new-twists-to-penn-state-case

Penn State sex abuse scandal

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. A former Penn State graduate assistant cited by a grand jury report as claiming he saw an ex-assistant football coach sexually abusing a young boy in a campus locker room shower says in an email he made sure the act was stopped and then went to police contradicting what the report says.

Mike McQueary’s comments, in an email made available to The Associated Press on Tuesday, appeared to add more confusion to a scandal that has enveloped the university and resulted in the firing of head coach Joe Paterno, the ousting of president Graham Spanier and charges of perjury against the athletic director and a senior vice president.

McQueary, now the football team’s wide receivers coach, told a friend from Penn State that he made sure the 2002 shower assault he witnessed was stopped and went to the police about it. The friend made McQueary’s email, written Nov. 8, available to the AP on Tuesday on the condition he not be identified.

McQueary, who has been placed on administrative leave and did not coach in Saturday’s 17-14 loss to Nebraska, wrote: “I did stop it, not physically … but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room … I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police … no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds … trust me.”

Added McQueary: “Do with this what you want … but I am getting hammered for handling this the right way … or what I thought at the time was right … I had to make tough impacting quick decisions.”

According to the grand jury report, McQueary testified he spoke to his father and then to Paterno before speaking to athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president Gary Schultz, who oversaw campus police. Paterno has not been charged with any crime, and state prosecutors have said he is not a target. Curley and Schultz are accused of breaking the law by not going to police but maintain their innocence.
[/quote]

If true, I give McQueary a pass… We’d all like to think we’d get a baseball bat and go to work if we witnessed something like that, but facing reality is way different. I mean seeing something like that when you are not expecting it is, I am sure, quite a shock…I certainly never, ever, ever, ever want to witness anything remotely close to that.

744

Looks like something strange is afoot at the Citadel too…Not near as bad, but certainly inappropriate. I am starting to get afraid at how prevalent this shit really is in society. We don’t talk about it much, but their are child porn rings being busted with regularity…What the fuck is wrong with people?!

745

Agreed. the GJ report is merely a summation that is used to bring about a prosecution. I’m sure there is much more testimony than 23 pages.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
EXCERPT
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2011-11/penn-state-scandal/story/email-tv-talk-add-new-twists-to-penn-state-case

Penn State sex abuse scandal

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. A former Penn State graduate assistant cited by a grand jury report as claiming he saw an ex-assistant football coach sexually abusing a young boy in a campus locker room shower says in an email he made sure the act was stopped and then went to police contradicting what the report says.

Mike McQueary’s comments, in an email made available to The Associated Press on Tuesday, appeared to add more confusion to a scandal that has enveloped the university and resulted in the firing of head coach Joe Paterno, the ousting of president Graham Spanier and charges of perjury against the athletic director and a senior vice president.

McQueary, now the football team’s wide receivers coach, told a friend from Penn State that he made sure the 2002 shower assault he witnessed was stopped and went to the police about it. The friend made McQueary’s email, written Nov. 8, available to the AP on Tuesday on the condition he not be identified.

McQueary, who has been placed on administrative leave and did not coach in Saturday’s 17-14 loss to Nebraska, wrote: “I did stop it, not physically … but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room … I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police … no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds … trust me.”

Added McQueary: “Do with this what you want … but I am getting hammered for handling this the right way … or what I thought at the time was right … I had to make tough impacting quick decisions.”

According to the grand jury report, McQueary testified he spoke to his father and then to Paterno before speaking to athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president Gary Schultz, who oversaw campus police. Paterno has not been charged with any crime, and state prosecutors have said he is not a target. Curley and Schultz are accused of breaking the law by not going to police but maintain their innocence.
[/quote]

Like I’ve been saying…I want to know what Paterno knew and when…for precisely the reasons above, among others. A grand jury indictment is not the entire story. People need to testify and be cross-examined before we’ll have a more complete picture. [/quote]

746

[quote]pat wrote:
Looks like something strange is afoot at the Citadel too…Not near as bad, but certainly inappropriate. I am starting to get afraid at how prevalent this shit really is in society. We don’t talk about it much, but their are child porn rings being busted with regularity…What the fuck is wrong with people?![/quote]

It’s widely prevalent. I know of three people close to me that were abused to various degrees and other have told me of very mild abuse like I experienced ( an atempt at groping or someone exposing themselves and it going no further).

Most abusers that try to touch you will stop when you face them with the crowbar you were holding when they attempted it.

747

I read an article yesterday from an FBI profiler that stated maybe 10% would act and 90% would do what McQueary did when confronted with the situation.

Most here aren’t PSU grads like me. I’m a booster also so I’m familiar with various incidents some might not know about. In 2006 McQueary intervened when a former Football player, Chris Bell attempted to attack a teammate with a large knife, described as a butcher knife.

It doesn’t seem to be to me that he’s the kind of guy to just slink away.

And remember, according to the FBI, 9/10 people would just freeze. It’s not often we walk into such a scene with a man who we have know for 10-20 years or more. someone we trust etc.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
EXCERPT
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2011-11/penn-state-scandal/story/email-tv-talk-add-new-twists-to-penn-state-case

Penn State sex abuse scandal

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. A former Penn State graduate assistant cited by a grand jury report as claiming he saw an ex-assistant football coach sexually abusing a young boy in a campus locker room shower says in an email he made sure the act was stopped and then went to police contradicting what the report says.

Mike McQueary’s comments, in an email made available to The Associated Press on Tuesday, appeared to add more confusion to a scandal that has enveloped the university and resulted in the firing of head coach Joe Paterno, the ousting of president Graham Spanier and charges of perjury against the athletic director and a senior vice president.

McQueary, now the football team’s wide receivers coach, told a friend from Penn State that he made sure the 2002 shower assault he witnessed was stopped and went to the police about it. The friend made McQueary’s email, written Nov. 8, available to the AP on Tuesday on the condition he not be identified.

McQueary, who has been placed on administrative leave and did not coach in Saturday’s 17-14 loss to Nebraska, wrote: “I did stop it, not physically … but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room … I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police … no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds … trust me.”

Added McQueary: “Do with this what you want … but I am getting hammered for handling this the right way … or what I thought at the time was right … I had to make tough impacting quick decisions.”

According to the grand jury report, McQueary testified he spoke to his father and then to Paterno before speaking to athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president Gary Schultz, who oversaw campus police. Paterno has not been charged with any crime, and state prosecutors have said he is not a target. Curley and Schultz are accused of breaking the law by not going to police but maintain their innocence.
[/quote]

If true, I give McQueary a pass… We’d all like to think we’d get a baseball bat and go to work if we witnessed something like that, but facing reality is way different. I mean seeing something like that when you are not expecting it is, I am sure, quite a shock…I certainly never, ever, ever, ever want to witness anything remotely close to that.[/quote]

748

[quote]tom63 wrote:
I read an article yesterday from an FBI profiler that stated maybe 10% would act and 90% would do what McQueary did when confronted with the situation.

Most here aren’t PSU grads like me. I’m a booster also so I’m familiar with various incidents some might not know about. In 2006 McQueary intervened when a former Football player, Chris Bell attempted to attack a teammate with a large knife, described as a butcher knife.

It doesn’t seem to be to me that he’s the kind of guy to just slink away.

And remember, according to the FBI, 9/10 people would just freeze. It’s not often we walk [/quote]

I have no doubt that his initial reaction was normal. (Regardless of what all the internet warriors claim they would do.)

It is his lack of action that followed is really what the uproar is about.

I think the email is just a lame attempt to save face.

749

Deadspin put together a total timeline of the incidents if anybody is interested.

750

[quote]Christine wrote:
I think the email is just a lame attempt to save face. [/quote]

I know, right?

McQueary’s friend releases an email where McQueary says he did the right thing. Convenient.

751

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
I read an article yesterday from an FBI profiler that stated maybe 10% would act and 90% would do what McQueary did when confronted with the situation.

Most here aren’t PSU grads like me. I’m a booster also so I’m familiar with various incidents some might not know about. In 2006 McQueary intervened when a former Football player, Chris Bell attempted to attack a teammate with a large knife, described as a butcher knife.

It doesn’t seem to be to me that he’s the kind of guy to just slink away.

And remember, according to the FBI, 9/10 people would just freeze. It’s not often we walk [/quote]

I have no doubt that his initial reaction was normal. (Regardless of what all the internet warriors claim they would do.)

It is his lack of action that followed is really what the uproar is about.

I think the email is just a lame attempt to save face. [/quote]

Perhaps… I don’t really see him as the bad guy here though. He wasn’t in any position of authority. If the email is true, then he pretty much did what he could. If it’s not, he should have done more, but being a subordinate in a role where you got big time muckity mucks telling you you may not have seen what you saw and it’s your ass if you are even remotely wrong, you may be a bit more sheepish about making an big stink when everybody around you doesn’t think it’s a big deal. It’s hard to be the lone wolf, especially when your the runt in a very powerful litter.

752

Another factor is he knew Sanddusky well. He played little league with one of his kids for example. Just another factor in how he might have been shocked Pat.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
I read an article yesterday from an FBI profiler that stated maybe 10% would act and 90% would do what McQueary did when confronted with the situation.

Most here aren’t PSU grads like me. I’m a booster also so I’m familiar with various incidents some might not know about. In 2006 McQueary intervened when a former Football player, Chris Bell attempted to attack a teammate with a large knife, described as a butcher knife.

It doesn’t seem to be to me that he’s the kind of guy to just slink away.

And remember, according to the FBI, 9/10 people would just freeze. It’s not often we walk [/quote]

I have no doubt that his initial reaction was normal. (Regardless of what all the internet warriors claim they would do.)

It is his lack of action that followed is really what the uproar is about.

I think the email is just a lame attempt to save face. [/quote]

Perhaps… I don’t really see him as the bad guy here though. He wasn’t in any position of authority. If the email is true, then he pretty much did what he could. If it’s not, he should have done more, but being a subordinate in a role where you got big time muckity mucks telling you you may not have seen what you saw and it’s your ass if you are even remotely wrong, you may be a bit more sheepish about making an big stink when everybody around you doesn’t think it’s a big deal. It’s hard to be the lone wolf, especially when your the runt in a very powerful litter.[/quote]

753

More will come out after the trial. The devil is in the details. The GJ report is merely a 23 page summation of testimony with no cross examination. If it comes out later that he did intercede and did talk to the police a lot of people are going to look very stupid with their knee jerk reactions.

The piling on before we learned everything is vile. If you’re living in Pa. or have been following this very closely like I have you’ll see there are a lot of factors politically from the governor’s office down and a lot of speculation and a huge lack of facts at this time.

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
I read an article yesterday from an FBI profiler that stated maybe 10% would act and 90% would do what McQueary did when confronted with the situation.

Most here aren’t PSU grads like me. I’m a booster also so I’m familiar with various incidents some might not know about. In 2006 McQueary intervened when a former Football player, Chris Bell attempted to attack a teammate with a large knife, described as a butcher knife.

It doesn’t seem to be to me that he’s the kind of guy to just slink away.

And remember, according to the FBI, 9/10 people would just freeze. It’s not often we walk [/quote]

I have no doubt that his initial reaction was normal. (Regardless of what all the internet warriors claim they would do.)

It is his lack of action that followed is really what the uproar is about.

I think the email is just a lame attempt to save face. [/quote]

754

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
I think the email is just a lame attempt to save face. [/quote]

I know, right?

McQueary’s friend releases an email where McQueary says he did the right thing. Convenient.

[/quote]

Again, the summation isn’t all of the facts. All of this now is speculation.

755

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Sandusky’s lawyer allegedly impregnated a minor when he was 44. Some sick club these bastards are in.[/quote]

He didnt ‘allegedly’ impregnant his eventual WIFE. He DID impregnate her, twice.

Obviously, in the U.S., it’s abnormal for a 40 something year old to marry a 16-17 year old but the age of consent in PA is 16.

The age of consent in Mexico is 12 in many states/provinces/regions whatever. 14 for many European countries. Im sure someone can find a place where it’s even lower.

Judge the guy how you please, but it is not in the same universe as raping 20+ prepubescent boys.

Edit.

Canada raised the age of consent from 14 to 16.

Guess when

What’s your point again? [/quote]

I wasn’t comparing what Sandusky did to what the lawyer did. I think what Sandusky did is 100 times worse, and he should be put to jail where the OGs get turns with him.

I was trying to point out the irony of a rapist hiring a lawyer with that type of history.

And yes, I get what you’re saying. Back in the old days, old men had 13 year old wives. One of them I think eventually became President of the US.

756

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And by the way ladies and gents, some of which are over in PWI doing this thread injustice; there is a difference between grand jury SUMMARY and grand jury testimony. Most of you have been building your “arguments” and “logic” based upon the linked GRAND JURY SUMMARY - NOT TESTIMONY.

Huge difference. [/quote]

Quite correct.

But I still maintain that the firing of Paterno was a moral issue not a legal one.

The leader has to take the fall when something this egregious happens under their watch, fair or not…the buck has to stop someplace.

And Paterno was the most powerful man at Penn State.[/quote]

I’ve never uttered he didn’t deserve to be fired. Only that any moral or legal judgment as to his actions and “culpability” (if any) need wait for a full disclosure of the facts and timeline. That has not occurred yet.

757

[quote]tom63 wrote:
More will come out after the trial. The devil is in the details. The GJ report is merely a 23 page summation of testimony with no cross examination. If it comes out later that he did intercede and did talk to the police a lot of people are going to look very stupid with their knee jerk reactions.

The piling on before we learned everything is vile. If you’re living in Pa. or have been following this very closely like I have you’ll see there are a lot of factors politically from the governor’s office down and a lot of speculation and a huge lack of facts at this time.

[/quote]

This is pretty much what I’ve been saying for pages here and you’d think I had spoken some heresy against the Almighty. At one point, I was accused of “trolling”. Sorry, it’s called having critical thinking and analytical skills. I guess I take it for granted that the average person is capable of CRITICAL THINKING (they are not). And my guess is that most here were raised with what passes as “journalism” these days where it’s “damn the facts”, let’s sell some newspapers. This of course requires no restraint and just a herd mentality of rushing to judgment and being provocative.

There are still people here, when confronted with the FACT that THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY FACTS, building arguments (speculation really) on a house of cards. But don’t worry, so-called “journalists” are doing the same thing so it must be right :slight_smile:

758

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And by the way ladies and gents, some of which are over in PWI doing this thread injustice; there is a difference between grand jury SUMMARY and grand jury testimony. Most of you have been building your “arguments” and “logic” based upon the linked GRAND JURY SUMMARY - NOT TESTIMONY.

Huge difference. [/quote]

Quite correct.

But I still maintain that the firing of Paterno was a moral issue not a legal one.

The leader has to take the fall when something this egregious happens under their watch, fair or not…the buck has to stop someplace.

And Paterno was the most powerful man at Penn State.[/quote]

I’ve never uttered he didn’t deserve to be fired. Only that any moral or legal judgment as to his actions and “culpability” (if any) need wait for a full disclosure of the facts and timeline. That has not occurred yet. [/quote]

OK…then I agree with you mostly.

Moral culpability does not carry the burden of proof that legal guilt does…clearly the board of trustees had seen enough to fire the President, the AD, the Director of Business and Finance and Paterno.

The Board’s moral threshold had been met…if Paterno feels he was wrongly fired there is legal civil recourse I would assume.

759

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And by the way ladies and gents, some of which are over in PWI doing this thread injustice; there is a difference between grand jury SUMMARY and grand jury testimony. Most of you have been building your “arguments” and “logic” based upon the linked GRAND JURY SUMMARY - NOT TESTIMONY.

Huge difference. [/quote]

Quite correct.

But I still maintain that the firing of Paterno was a moral issue not a legal one.

The leader has to take the fall when something this egregious happens under their watch, fair or not…the buck has to stop someplace.

And Paterno was the most powerful man at Penn State.[/quote]

I’ve never uttered he didn’t deserve to be fired. Only that any moral or legal judgment as to his actions and “culpability” (if any) need wait for a full disclosure of the facts and timeline. That has not occurred yet. [/quote]

OK…then I agree with you mostly.

Moral culpability does not carry the burden of proof that legal guilt does…clearly the board of trustees had seen enough to fire the President, the AD, the Director of Business and Finance and Paterno.

The Board’s moral threshold had been met…if Paterno feels he was wrongly fired there is legal civil recourse I would assume.[/quote]

We may have some common ground, but for the rest of the above…no.

The board did a great big CYA PR move in the face of a great shit storm.

And I don’t think Joe would file any such suit given his age, and his pension. There is really no economic loss to him.

760

Wonder if Joe raped too…