Push some great photos in there. (Not the execution one).
Powerful.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I find little to disagree with your post. However, I find plenty to disagree with as far as your implied assertion that the Allies faced 5% of German forces. That is simply absurd. Or maybe I misunderstood you.[/quote]
Until the Normandy landings, these percentages were valid for the German Army (not the Navy and the Air force naturally). The numbers from 1944 if I recall correctly were 5% Italian front, North west Europe 21 % and the rest East. Of course, the figures varied depending on the offensive action taken (Kursk, Ardennes offensive…) or the losses incurred (Falaise gap, collapse of Army group Center…)
“You have in your hands not only my son Yakov but millions of my sons. Either you free them all or my son will share their fate.”
And his son did die while imprisoned. No matter how twisted and sadistic Stalin was without him as leader the Soviets would not of been anything. Off topic but Stalin is my favorite historical figure to learn about right now. The book Young Stalin is really good. I am sure most of you know about the Soviets policy on soldiers who would turn back on a charge toward the enemy in hopeless situations. A lot of times the russian troops did.nt even have rifles but were nothing more than targets charging the Nazis who were armed to the teeth.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
A blemish on an otherwise impressive presidency. Missouri’s own Harry Truman. Read the McCullough biography. He was a truly extra-ordinary man.[/quote]
Blemish? Blemish my ass. Ten times that number would have died if we had to invade the Japanese mainland, probably more.
And with that psychotic, cultish culture at the time, none of them would have surrendered, and we would have had to butcher them all.
I say good for Truman. He saved more lives than he ended, including probably the life of my grandfather, who fought in the Pacific.
You don’t want to get nuked, don’t go starting wars.[/quote]
Irish - every once and awhile you are a magnificent bastard! Excellent post!
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
I havent read this yet but its true that above all else WWII was a war between Socialism and Fascism.
[/quote]
I do believe that should have read “above all else WWII was a war against Socialism (Germany) and Facism (Italy)” . . .
I am reading “The Voice of War, the second world war told by those who fought it” by, James Owen and Guy Walters. This book is excellent so far. I recognize some of the stories from past books I’ve read on WW2 as well. All sides in the conflict contribute to the book so you get a picture from everyones perspective, leaders and soldiers alike.
Anyone else read this book?
[quote]loppar wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I find little to disagree with your post. However, I find plenty to disagree with as far as your implied assertion that the Allies faced 5% of German forces. That is simply absurd. Or maybe I misunderstood you.[/quote]
Until the Normandy landings, these percentages were valid for the German Army (not the Navy and the Air force naturally). The numbers from 1944 if I recall correctly were 5% Italian front, North west Europe 21 % and the rest East. Of course, the figures varied depending on the offensive action taken (Kursk, Ardennes offensive…) or the losses incurred (Falaise gap, collapse of Army group Center…)[/quote]
Wow - you’ve got some screwed up sources if you believe those figures, here’s the actual order of battle by front:
Axis Order of Battle 15 June 1944 - The Battle between two fronts
THE ARCTIC FRONT (UNDER OKW COMMAND)
TWENTIETH MOUNTAIN ARMY (GebirgsAOK 20):
AOK Reserves:
2 Geb.Div.
XVIII (18) Gebirgskorps:
7 Geb.Div. (most)
Div.â??Krautlerâ?? + 7 Geb.Div. (part)
XXXVI (36) Gebirgskorps:
163 Inf.Div.
169 Inf.Div.
XIX (19) Gebirgskorps:
KGrp.â??Ostâ??
6 Geb.Div.
Grp.â??Rossiâ??
210 Inf.Div.
ARMY of NORWAY (AOK-Norway)
And Wehr.Befh.-Norway:
AOK Reserves:
89 Inf.Div. (refitting)
LXXI (71) Armeekorps:
230 Inf.Div.
270 Inf.Div.
199 Inf.Div.
XXXIII (33) Armeeorps:
14 Luft.Fld.Div.
702 Inf.Div.
295 Inf.Div.
196 Inf.Div.
THE EASTERN FRONT (UNDER OKH COMMAND)
HEERESGRUPPE â??NORDâ??
HGrp.Reserves:
Fld.Trg.Div.â??Nordâ??
12 Pz.Div.
SIXTEENTH ARMY (AOK 16):
AOK Reserves:
24 Inf.Div.
69 Inf.Div.
281 Sich.Div.
285 Sich.Div. (part)
I (01) Armeekorps:
205 Inf.Div.
87 Inf.Div.
X (10) Armeekorps:
389 Inf.Div. (most)
290 Inf.Div.
263 Inf.Div.
II (02) Armeekorps:
81 Inf.Div.
329 Inf.Div.
23 Inf.Div.
VI (06) SS-Korps:
15 SS-GR.Div. â??Lat.#1â??
19 SS-GR.Div. â??Lat.#2â??
93 Inf.Div.
L (50) Armeekorps:
218 Inf.Div.
132 Inf.Div.
83 Inf.Div.
EIGHTEENTH ARMY (AOK 18):
AOK Reserves:
215 Inf.Div.
XXXVIII (38) Armeekorps:
21 Luft.Fld.Div.
32 Inf.Div.
121 Inf.Div.
XXVIII (28) Armeekorps:
30 Inf.Div.
21 Inf.Div.
212 Inf.Div.
126 Inf.Div.
12 Luft.Fld.Div.
300 z.b.V.Div.:
1 (Estonian) Grenzschutz-Regt.
2 + 3 (Estonian) Grenzschutz-Regts. (attached to 227 Inf.Div.)
4 (Estonian) Grenzschutz-Regt.
5 (Estonian) Grenzschutz-Regt. (attached to 207 Sich.Div.)
207 Sich.Div. + 5 (Estonian) Grenzschutz-Regt.
ARMEE-ABT. â??NARVAâ??
Armee Reserves:
61 Inf.Div.
XXVI (26) Armeekorps:
227 Inf.Div. + 2, 3 (Estonian) Grenzschutz-Regts.
170 Inf.Div.
225 Inf.Div.
XXXXIII (43) Armeekorps:
58 Inf.Div.
11 Inf.Div.
122 Inf.Div.
III (03) Panzerkorps-SS:
SS-PzGR.Div. â??Nordlandâ?? + SS-GR.Bde. â??Nederlandâ??
20 SS-GR.Div. â??Estonian#1â??
Kustenverteidigung â??Ostâ??:
Stab 2 Luft.Flak-Div. + 5 (Estonian) Btls.
Kustenverteidigung â??Westâ??:
285 Sich.Div. + 4 (Estonian) Btls.
HEERESGRUPPE â??MITTEâ??
HGrp.Reserves:
390 Fld.Trg.Div.
707 Inf.Div.
14 Inf.Div.
OKH Reserves:
Pz.Grp.â??Fâ??
Wehr.Befh.â??Weissruthenienâ??:
221 Sich.Div.
391 Sich.Div.
SECOND ARMY (AOK 2):
AOK Reserves:
5 (Hung) Res.Div.
23 (Hung) Res.Div.
4 Kav.Bde.
1 (Hung) Cav.Div.
VIII (08) Armeekorps:
5 Jag.Div.
211 Inf.Div.
12 (Hung) Res.Div.
XX (20) Armeekorps:
K.Abt.â??Eâ?? (Div.Grps. 137 + 251)
3 Kav.Bde.
XXIII (23) Armeekorps:
7 Inf.Div.
203 Sich.Div.
Stab 17 z.b.V.Bde.
NINTH ARMY (AOK 9):
LV (55) Armeekorps:
102 Inf.Div.
292 Inf.Div.
XXXXI (41) Panzerkorps:
129 Inf.Div. (most)
35 Inf.Div.
36 Inf.Div.
XXXV (35) Armeekorps:
45 Inf.Div.
383 Inf.Div.
6 Inf.Div.
296 Inf.Div.
134 Inf.Div.
129 Inf.Div. (part)
FOURTH ARMY (AOK 4):
AOK Reserves:
286 Sich.Div.
XII (12) Armeekorps:
57 Inf.Div. (most)
267 Inf.Div.
18 PzGR.Div.
XXXIX (39) Panzerkorps:
31 Inf.Div.
12 Inf.Div.
337 Inf.Div.
110 Inf.Div.
XXVII (27) Armeekorps:
260 Inf.Div. + 57 Inf.Div. (part)
25 PzGR.Div.
78 Sturm Div.
THIRD PANZER ARMY (PzAOK 3):
AOK Reserves:
201 Sich.Div.
95 Inf.Div.
VI (06) Armeekorps:
256 Inf.Div.
299 Inf.Div.
197 Inf.Div.
LIII (53) Armeekorps:
206 Inf.Div.
6 Luft.Fld.Div.
4 Luft.Fld.Div.
246 Inf.Div.
IX (09) Armeekorps:
K.Abt.â??Dâ?? (Div.Grp. 252)
HEERESGRUPPE â??NORDUKRAINEâ??
HGrp.Reserves:
Stab II (02) Panzerkorps-SS
9 SS-Pz.Div. â??Hohenâ??
10 SS-Pz.Div. â??Frundâ??
16 SS-Pz.Div. â??RFSSâ??
FIRST (HUNGARIAN) ARMY:
Army Reserves:
2 (Hung) Pz.Div.
19 (Hung) Res.Div.
VI (06) (Hung) Corps:
2 (Hung) Mtn.Bde.
Bde. â??Schlebruggeâ??
27 (Hung) Light Div
1 (Hung) Mtn.Bde.
XI (11) Armeekorps:
18 (Hung) Res.Div.
25 (Hung) Inf.Div.
101 Jag.Div.
24 (Hung) Inf.Div.
VII (07) (Hung) Corps:
68 Inf.Div.
16 (Hung) Inf.Div.
FIRST PANZER ARMY (PzAOK 1):
AOK Reserves:
Stab III (03) Panzerkorps
1 Pz.Div.
7 Pz.Div.
8 Pz.Div.
17 Pz.Div.
20 PzGR.Div.
XXXXVI (46) Panzerkorps:
367 Inf.Div.
168 Inf.Div.
1 Inf.Div.
LIX (59) Armeekorps:
20 (Hung) Inf.Div.
208 Inf.Div.
254 Inf.Div.
XXIV (24) Panzerkorps:
371 Inf.Div.
75 Inf.Div.
100 Jag.Div.
XXXXVIII (48) Panzerkorps:
359 Inf.Div.
96 Inf.Div.
357 Inf.Div.
349 Inf.Div.
FOURTH PANZER ARMY (PzAOK 4):
AOK Reserves:
454 Sich.Div.
4 Pz.Div.
5 Pz.Div.
28 Jag.Div.
XIII (13) Armeekorps:
K.Abt.â??Câ?? (Div.Grps. 183-217-339)
361 Inf.Div.
340 Inf.Div.
XXXXII (42) z.b.V. Korps:
291 Inf.Div.
88 Inf.Div.
72 Inf.Div.
214 Inf.Div.
LVI (56) Panzerkorps:
1 Ski-Jag,Div.
253 Inf.Div.
131 Inf.Div.
342 Inf.Div.
26 Inf.Div.
HEERESGRUPPE â??SUDUKRAINEâ??
HGrp. Reserves:
Stab: Seventeenth Army (AOK 17)
Stab V (05) Armeekorps
Stab XXXXIX (49) Gebirgskorps
153 Fld.Trg.Div.
1 (Slov) Inf.Div.
8 (Rum) Cav.Div.
1 (Rum) Arm.Div. (part)
ARMEE-GRUPPE â??DUMITRESCUâ??
(HQ: Third (Rumanian) Army)
AGrp. Reserves:
HQ: II (02) (Rum) Corps
Stab LXXII (72) z.b.V. Korps
THIRD (RUMANIAN) ARMY:
Army Reserves:
9 (Rum) Inf.Div.
(Rum) Kdt. d.â??Donau-Mundungâ??
III (03) (Rum) Corps:
110 (Rum) Inf Bde
2 (Rum) Inf.Div.
15 (Rum) Inf.Div.
Stab 685 z.b.V. Regt.
XXIX (29) Armeekorps:
304 Inf.Div.
21 (Rum) Inf.Div.
4 (Rum) Mtn.Div.
9 Inf.Div.
SIXTH ARMY (AOK 6):
AOK Reserves:
3 Pz.Div.
13 Pz.Div.
XXX (30) Armeekorps:
306 Inf.Div.
15 Inf.Div.
257 Inf.Div.
302 Inf.Div.
384 Inf.Div.
LII (52) Armeekorps:
K.Abt.â??Dâ?? (Div.Grps. 161-293-355)
17 Inf.Div.
320 Inf.Div.
97 Jag.Div.
294 Inf.Div.
4 Geb.Div.
XXXXIV (44) Armeekorps:
335 Inf.Div.
282 Inf.Div.
10 PzGR.Div.
K.Abt.â??Fâ?? (Div.Grps. 38-62-123)
258 Inf.Div.
VII (07) Armeekorps:
14 (Rum) Inf.Div.
106 Inf.Div.
370 Inf.Div.
ARMEE-GRUPPE â??WOHLERâ??
(Stab: Eighth German Army)
AGrp. Reserves:
Stab XXXX (40) Panzerkorps
18 (Rum) Mtn.Div. (most)
EIGHTH ARMY (AOK 8):
IV (04) (Rum) Corps:
(Rum) Fast Bde.â??Cojucaruâ??
102 (Rum) Mtn.Bde.
5 (Rum) Cav.Div.
Group â??Gen.Miethâ?? (Stab IV (04) Armeekorps):
376 Inf.Div.
11 (Rum) Inf.Div.
23 Pz.Div.
79 Inf.Div.
3 (Rum) Inf.Div.
FOURTH (RUMANIAN) ARMY:
Army Reserves:
1 (Rum) Cav.Div.
Grp. â??Dâ??
24 Pz.Div.
3 SS-Pz.Div. â??Tot.â??
8 (Rum) Inf.Div.
198 Inf.Div. (KGrp)
Group â??Knobelsdorffâ?? (Stab LVII (57) Panzerkorps):
Grp. Reserves:
14 Pz.Div.
(Units under LVII (57) Panzerkorps.Command):
VI (06) (Rum) Corps:
7 (Rum) Inf.Div.
76 Inf.Div.
18 (Rum) Mtn.Div. (part)
5 (Rum) Inf.Div.
101 (Rum) Mtn.Bde.
V (05) (Rum) Corps:
4 (Rum) Inf.Div.
1 (Rum) Guard Div.
LVII (57) Panzerkorps:
1 (Rum) Inf.Div.
46 Inf.Div.
13 (Rum) Inf.Div.
I (01) (Rum) Corps:
6 (Rum) Inf.Div.
20 (Rum) Inf.Div.
VII (07) (Rum) Corps:
104 (Rum) Inf.Bde.
103 (Rum) Inf.Bde.
XVII (17) Armeekorps:
3 Geb. Div. + (Rum) Gr.-Wa.-Einh.
8 Jag.Div. (most) + (Rum) Gr.-Wa.-Einh.
THE BALKANS FRONT (UNDER OKW COMMAND)
HEERESGRUPPE â??Fâ??:
And OB â??Southeastâ??:
OKW Reserves:
1 Geb.Div.
18 SS-PzGR.Div. â??H.Wesselâ?? (refitting)
8 SS-Cav.Div. â??Florian Geyerâ?? (forming)
98 Inf.Div. (in transit)
SECOND PANZER ARMY (PzAOK 2):
LXIX (69) z.b.V. Korps:
1 Kos.Cav.Div.
373 (Kroat.) Inf.Div.
XV (15) Gebirgskorps:
1 Res.Ski-Jag.Regt.
392 (Kroat.) Inf.Div.
264 Inf.Div.
1 Regt. â??Brandenburgâ??
4 Regt. â??Brandenburgâ??
92 Mot.Inf.Regt.
V (05) Gebirgskorps-SS:
13 SS-Geb.Div. â??Kroat#1â??
HQ: (Russ.) Schutz Kps.
7 SS-Geb.Div. â??Prinz Eugenâ??
369 Inf.Div.
118 Jag.Div.
XXI (21) Gebirgskorps:
2 Regt. â??Brandenburgâ??
5 SS-Police Regt.
F.K.1040
181 Inf.Div.
297 Inf.Div.
21 SS-Geb.Div. â??Albanian#1â?? (refitting)
I (01) (Bulg) Corps:
22 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
24 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
25 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
27 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
Heeresgruppe â??Eâ??:
(Acting as an AOK under HGrp.â??Fâ??)
HGrp.Reserves:
18 SS-Police Geb.Jag.Regt.
Sturm Div. â??Rhodesâ??
XXII (22) Gebirgskorps:
104 Jag.Div.
Festung Regt. 966
LXVIII (68) Armeekorps:
117 Jag.Div.
41 Festung Div.
11 Luft.Fld.Div.
Kdt.v.Crete:
22 Inf.Div.
133 Festung Div.
II (02) (Bulg) Corps:
7 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
16 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
28 (Bulg) Inf.Div.
O.F.K. 395:
Festung Regt. 963
4 SS-PzGR.Div. â??Polizeiâ??
Befh.i.Op.Geb. Ost-Ungarn:
1 SS-Cav.Div. (refitting)
73 Inf.Div. (forming)
THE ITALIAN FRONT (UNDER OKW COMMAND)
HEERESGRUPPE â??Câ??:
And OB â?? â??Southwestâ??:
HGrp.Reserves:
715 Inf.Div. (in transit)
FOURTEENTH ARMY (AOK 14):
AOK Reserves:
65 Inf.Div.
92 Inf.Div.
362 Inf.Div. (in transit)
19 Luft.Fld.Div. (most)
XIV (14) Panzerkorps:
162 Inf.Div.
90 PzGR.Div.
29 PzGR.Div.
20 Luft.Fld.Div.
I (01) Fschjag.korps:
3 PzGR.Div. (remnants)
26 Pz.Div.
4 Fschjag.Div.
356 Inf.Div.
TENTH ARMY (AOK 10):
AOK Reserves:
114 Jag.Div. (in transit)
LXXVI (76) Panzerkorps:
16 SS-PzGR.Div. â??RFSSâ??
135 Festung Bde.
42 Jag.Div.
19 Luft.Fld.Div. (part)
Befh.Venetianische Kuste:
Festung Einh.
Befh.Op.Zone Adriat. Kustenland:
Al.Regt.â??Brandenburgâ??
THE WESTERN FRONT (UNDER OKW COMMAND)
Wehf.Befh. â??Denmarkâ??:
416 Inf.Div.
166 Res.Div.
160 Res.Div.
233 Res.Pz.Div. (refitting)
363 Inf.Div. (refitting)
Wehr.Befh. â??Netherlandsâ??:
Befh.Reserves:
Befh.d.Waff.SS
19 Pz.Div. (KGrp)
LXXXVIII (88) Armeekorps:
347 Inf.Div.
16 Luft.Fld.Div.
719 Inf.Div.
HEERESGRUPPE - â??Dâ??
And OB â?? â??WESTâ??:
OKW Reserves:
Stab: First Parachute Army (Fschjag.AOK 1)
HEERESGRUPPE â?? â??Bâ??
HGrp.Reserves:
Stab Pz.Group â??Westâ??
Stab LXV (65) z.b.V.Korps
2 Pz.Div. (part)
116 Pz.Div.
FIFTEENTH ARMY (AOK 15):
AOK Reserves:
Stab LXIV (64) Reservekorps
1 SS-Pz.Div. â??LAHâ?? (forming)
182 Res.Div.
326 Inf.Div.
331 Inf.Div. (refitting)
85 Inf.Div.
84 Inf.Div.
LXXXIX (89) Armeekorps:
165 Res.Div.
712 Inf.Div.
48 Inf.Div.
LXXXII (82) Armeekorps:
18 Luft.Fld.Div.
47 Inf.Div.
49 Inf.Div.
LXVII (67) Armeekorps:
344 Inf.Div.
348 Inf.Div.
LXXXI (81) Armeekorps:
245 Inf.Div.
17 Luft.Fld.Div.
711 Inf.Div.
346 Inf.Div.
21 Pz.Div. (part)
SEVENTH ARMY (AOK 7):
AOK Reserves:
Stab XXXXVII (47) Panzerkorps
5 Fschjag.Div.
17 SS-PzGR.Div. â??Gotz v.Berl.â?? (part: in transit)
I (01) Panzerkorps-SS:
21 Pz.Div. (most)
12 SS-Pz.Div. â??Hitlerjugendâ??
Pz.Div.â??Lehrâ??
716 Inf.Div.
LXXXIV (84) Armeekorps:
Korps Reserves:
319 Inf.Div.
II (02) Fschjag.korps:
2 Pz.Div. (part)
3 Fschjag.Div.
352 Inf.Div. + 275 Inf.Div. (KGrp)
6 Fschjag.Regt.
265 Inf.Div. (part-KGrp.)
17 SS-PzGR.Div. â??Gotz v.Berl.â?? (most)
Group â??Hellmichâ??:
243 Inf.Div.
91 Luft.Landing Div.
77 Inf.Div.
709 Inf.Div.
752 Inf.Regt.
ARMEE-GRUPPE â?? â??Gâ??
AGrp.Reserves:
Stab LXVI (66) Reservekorps
Stab LVIII (58) Reserve Panzerkorps
2 SS-Pz.Div. â??Das Reichâ?? (in transit)
9 SS-Pz.Div. â??Hohenâ?? (refitting)
189 Res.Div.
FIRST ARMY (AOK 1):
AOK Reserves:
11 Pz.Div. (refitting)
LXXX (80) Armeekorps:
158 Res.Div.
708 Inf.Div.
LXXXVI (86) Armeekorps:
159 Res.Div.
276 Inf.Div. (forming)
NINETEENTH ARMY (AOK 19):
AOK Reserves:
157 Res.Div.
IV (04) Luft.Fld.Korps:
272 Inf.Div. (forming)
277 Inf.Div. (forming)
271 Inf.Div. (forming)
Group â??Kniessâ??:
338 Inf.Div.
244 Inf.Div.
LXII (62) Reservekorps:
242 Inf.Div.
148 Res.Div.
[quote]0mar wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]0mar wrote:
The Pacific Front was nearly 100% America, yes, but the European front was 95% Russia…
[/quote]
The North Sea, North Atlantic, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Italy, Sicily, Greece, North Africa, Yugoslavia and the Balkans, do not equal 5%.[/quote]
Those fronts only opened up because the Eastern Front demanded more and more resources. Like I said before, we faced less than 25% of the Wehrmacht, 10% of the Waffen-SS and less than 5% of the Luftwaffe. Every single available resource was shipped to the Eastern Front as a priority. We fought rest/refit units throughout the Western front.
The best way to look at it is this way. Without Russia, Germany wins, no matter what. Without the Western Allies, Germany still loses, no matter what.[/quote]
LOL - you are miunderstanding the figures you have seen. The statement that 80% of the German Army served on the Eastern front does not mean that 80% of the German Army was on the Eastern Front at any given time. It reflects the rotation of units/troops/wounded and replacements of losses, not a percentage of total force. It is a summary of the number who served at some point on the Eastern front over the entire length of the war.
Here is the breakdown by June of each year of German divisions in the Eastern Front:
1941 = 38, 1942 = 171, 1943 = 179, 1944 = 157
And on the Western Front
1941 = 61, 1942 = 55, 1943 = 77, 1944 = 117
Percentages of German Forces on the Eastern Front Each Year
Divisional Strength: 1941 = 67%, 1942 = 75%, 1943 = 60%, 1944 = 57%
Troop Strength: 1941 = 84%, 1942 = 74%, 1943 = 72%, 1944 = 40%
Aircraft: 1941 = 64%, 1942 = 65%, 1943 = 42%m 1944 = 45%
So while a proportionally large number of the German forces were applied to the struggle on the Eastern front given the vast area and soviet manpower, it was nowhere near as lopsided as some have claimed on here. Especially considering that the groun war in Europe itself started late in the War and the Normandy landings were not made until 1944 - so the claim made about the “faced less than 25% of the Wehrmacht” is completely false - we faced 40%, and the Luftwaffe numbers cited of 5% . . . well, they speak for themselves . . .
Saddest stat of all is the soviet meatgrinder: 80% of Soviet men born in 1923 did not survive WW2 . . .
In addition, some one mentioned the Canadian contribution - did you know that they had the 4th largest air force and the 3rd largest navy? They also added tremendously on the industrial output and contributed 6 army divisions to the war effort.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Just started reading Robert Leckie’s book, “A Helmet for My Pillow,” about this Marine’s experience on Guadalcanal and Peleliu.
I highly recommend it if one wants the perspective of a grunt in the hellholes of the Pacific in WWII.[/quote]
I’ll check out your book if you check out mine, deal? 
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Wow - you’ve got some screwed up sources if you believe those figures, here’s the actual order of battle by front:
Axis Order of Battle 15 June 1944 - The Battle between two fronts
[/quote]
And the OOB contradicts my percentages how? Have you read what is written there?
Ruling out reserve units, units being raised and divisions being rested and refitted in the West, you have the approximate figures for front line troops. The Arctic front was directed against the USSR, by the way.
As for my previous comment, prior to the Normandy landings, the Allies fought the Heer in North Africa, Sicily and mainland Italy.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Just started reading Robert Leckie’s book, “A Helmet for My Pillow,” about this Marine’s experience on Guadalcanal and Peleliu.
I highly recommend it if one wants the perspective of a grunt in the hellholes of the Pacific in WWII.[/quote]
Great book form a great man, Leckie was awarded five battle stars, the Naval commendaation medal with combat V and the Purple Heart.
If you like Leckie’s book, try Eb Sledge’s book ‘‘With the old breed’’, these guys had balls of steel.
[quote]loppar wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Wow - you’ve got some screwed up sources if you believe those figures, here’s the actual order of battle by front:
Axis Order of Battle 15 June 1944 - The Battle between two fronts
[/quote]
And the OOB contradicts my percentages how? Have you read what is written there?
Ruling out reserve units, units being raised and divisions being rested and refitted in the West, you have the approximate figures for front line troops. The Arctic front was directed against the USSR, by the way.
As for my previous comment, prior to the Normandy landings, the Allies fought the Heer in North Africa, Sicily and mainland Italy.
[/quote]
You’ll have to explain your math - I don’t see how 26% equals 60% . . .
More numbers…
The spoils of war: Because of the absence of glass any longer in most windows, all over Berlin there could be heard the screams of women being raped. Doctors later estimated that between 95,000 and 130,000 women were raped by the Red Army, of whom 10,000 subsequently died, mainly through suicide. In all, some two million German women are thought to have been violated in the last weeks of the war.
On 21 June, General Ushijima’s HQ on hill 69 was captured. US Marines found his body inside, one of 160,000 Japanese who died defending Okinawa. The American troops had lost 12,500.
The Japanese belief that surrender was a disgrace for any soldier led them to treat their prisoners abominably. More than 12,000 Alliad POWs and 90,000 native workers died building the Burma railway alone. Untill the last months of the war, hardley any Japanese were taken alive. Germany incidently, which unlike Japan had ratified the Geneva convention, treated it’s Soviet captives with equal harshness; more than 90 percent of them never returned home.
Quoted from The Voice of War.
^ another pointed reminder of the horrors of war.
“It is good that war is so horrible, or we might grow to like it” - Robert E Lee
I grabbed the Tommy gun and followed the corpsman. He was just finishing bandaging one of the wounded Marines of the 37mm gun crew when I got there. Other Marines were coming over to see if they could help. Several men had been wounded when two enemy officers crept up the steep slope, threw grenades into the gun emplacement, and jumped in swinging there samurai sabres.
One Marine had parried a sabre blow with his carbine. His buddy then had shot the Japanese officer who fell backwards a short distance down the slope. The sabre blow had severed a finger and sliced through the mahogoney carbine forstock to the matal barrel
The second Japanese officer lay dead on his back next to the wheel of the 37mm gun. Nothing remained of of his head from the nose up- just a mass of crushed skull, brains, and bloody pulp. A grimey Marine with a dazed expression stood over the Japanese.
With a foot planted firmly on the ground on each side of the enemy officers body, the Marine held his rifle by the forstock with both hands and slowly and mechanically moved up and down like a plunger. I winced each time it came down with a sickening sound into the gory mass. Brains and blood were splatered all over the Marines rifle, boondockers, and canvas leggings, as well as the wheel of the 37mm gun.
The Marine was obviously in a complete state of shock. We gently took him by the arms . One of his uninjured buddies set aside the gore covered rifle. “Let’s get you outta here, Cobber”. The poor guy responded like a sleepwalker as he was led off with the wounded. The man who lost his finger cluched the sabre in his hand “I’m gonna keep this as a souvenir”
We dragged the battered enemy officer to the edge of the gun emplacement and rolled him down the hill. Replete with violince , shock, blood, gore, and suffering , this was the type of incident that should be witnessed by anyone who has any delusions about the glory of war. It was as savage and brutal as though the enemy and we were primitive barbarians rather than civilised men.
Eugene Sledge
I apologise for the wall of text but that last paragraph really got me. Fuck, my life is cushy because of men like Eugene Sledge.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
^ another pointed reminder of the horrors of war.
“It is good that war is so horrible, or we might grow to like it” - Robert E Lee[/quote]
That has probably been said over and over in many languages over the millenia…so true though.