Here’s an idea - negotiate your own deal based on the market like a big boy or girl - if you don’t like it look somewhere else. It’s a big free country out there.
Why does anyone need some union to protect them - do your job and do it well and the rest will take care of itself. Only the lousy teachers and workers need the union to protect them. Employers don’t get rid of good and productive employees.
When you get hosed move on as soon as you can - don’t always expect big daddy government or big daddy union to come wipe your little bent out of shape nose. People are getting tired of this union baby bull crap.
With some of the comments I have heard coming from the mouths of so-called teachers up there protesting - I would say the herd needs a little turnover anyway. Just another reason why unions need to go the way of the dinosaur - they protect the bad teachers. Next thing you know the system is infected with them.
I love the comment from one of the nurses at the protests, advising them to get medical notes. “We think emotional stress can be detrimental to one’s health and should those siffering from it should be excused from work” (Something to that effect). Apparently, the remedy is to go to the state courthouse and yell your lungs out.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Here’s an idea - negotiate your own deal based on the market like a big boy or girl - if you don’t like it look somewhere else. It’s a big free country out there.
Why does anyone need some union to protect them - do your job and do it well and the rest will take care of itself. Only the lousy teachers and workers need the union to protect them. Employers don’t get rid of good and productive employees.
When you get hosed move on as soon as you can - don’t always expect big daddy government or big daddy union to come wipe your little bent out of shape nose. People are getting tired of this union baby bull crap.[/quote]
What happens when your job has no connection to the free market, like cops and firefighters?
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Here’s an idea - negotiate your own deal based on the market like a big boy or girl - if you don’t like it look somewhere else. It’s a big free country out there.
Why does anyone need some union to protect them - do your job and do it well and the rest will take care of itself. Only the lousy teachers and workers need the union to protect them. Employers don’t get rid of good and productive employees.
When you get hosed move on as soon as you can - don’t always expect big daddy government or big daddy union to come wipe your little bent out of shape nose. People are getting tired of this union baby bull crap.[/quote]
What happens when your job has no connection to the free market, like cops and firefighters?[/quote]
You mean like the majority of firefighters in existence whom are volunteers? That seems to work pretty well in a free market.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Here’s an idea - negotiate your own deal based on the market like a big boy or girl - if you don’t like it look somewhere else. It’s a big free country out there.
Why does anyone need some union to protect them - do your job and do it well and the rest will take care of itself. Only the lousy teachers and workers need the union to protect them. Employers don’t get rid of good and productive employees.
When you get hosed move on as soon as you can - don’t always expect big daddy government or big daddy union to come wipe your little bent out of shape nose. People are getting tired of this union baby bull crap.[/quote]
What happens when your job has no connection to the free market, like cops and firefighters?[/quote]
You mean like the majority of firefighters in existence whom are volunteers? That seems to work pretty well in a free market.[/quote]
Volunteer or career, makes no difference. The municipality has a monopoly on your fire service, and competes with nobody; hence, no free market.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Here’s an idea - negotiate your own deal based on the market like a big boy or girl - if you don’t like it look somewhere else. It’s a big free country out there.
Why does anyone need some union to protect them - do your job and do it well and the rest will take care of itself. Only the lousy teachers and workers need the union to protect them. Employers don’t get rid of good and productive employees.
When you get hosed move on as soon as you can - don’t always expect big daddy government or big daddy union to come wipe your little bent out of shape nose. People are getting tired of this union baby bull crap.[/quote]
What happens when your job has no connection to the free market, like cops and firefighters?[/quote]
You mean like the majority of firefighters in existence whom are volunteers? That seems to work pretty well in a free market.[/quote]
Volunteer or career, makes no difference. The municipality has a monopoly on your fire service, and competes with nobody; hence, no free market. [/quote]
This is an interesting point.
There are two sides to this - the “consumer” side and the “labor” side.
From the “consumer” perspective - you’re right, these services are monopolized by the municipality or the state.
From the “labor” side however - working for your state/municipality is not the only option, if they can find another employer who is willing to pay more - the municipality will be forced to pay more to attract/keep the employees.
So the supply/demand rule is still there.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Here’s an idea - negotiate your own deal based on the market like a big boy or girl - if you don’t like it look somewhere else. It’s a big free country out there.
Why does anyone need some union to protect them - do your job and do it well and the rest will take care of itself. Only the lousy teachers and workers need the union to protect them. Employers don’t get rid of good and productive employees.
When you get hosed move on as soon as you can - don’t always expect big daddy government or big daddy union to come wipe your little bent out of shape nose. People are getting tired of this union baby bull crap.[/quote]
What happens when your job has no connection to the free market, like cops and firefighters?[/quote]
You mean like the majority of firefighters in existence whom are volunteers? That seems to work pretty well in a free market.[/quote]
Volunteer or career, makes no difference. The municipality has a monopoly on your fire service, and competes with nobody; hence, no free market. [/quote]
No, you are confusing free marked with no monopolies. A free marked is one that isn’t artificially manipulated by a governing body. Big difference.
Second, they do technically compete with the option of not having those services.
But volunteer fire departments are a perfect example to the free market version of services like these.
But what also makes it a free market is that I could start a company called “Duce’s fire removal service” and people could call me up and pay me to put out a fire.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong…but I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that police and fire services would be “better” if subject to “market forces”.
I know the word “monopoly” may be heresy to the free market mind…but a “neccesary” part of timely, efficient and non-confusing emergency delivery is 1) the single firehouse or precinct being responsible for a defined area and 2) the cooperation, because they are “one”, between the firehouses and precincts.
I just don’t see competing, for-profit entities delivering that same kind of service. One need only see what happens when there are competing Ambulance Services for a defined area. It’s the most confusing thing you’ll ever witness.
Now…I’m all ears!
(P.S. I would love to hear from a firefighter or policeman).
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong…but I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that police and fire services would be “better” if subject to “market forces”.
I know the word “monopoly” may be heresy to the free market mind…but a “neccesary” part of timely, efficient and non-confusing emergency delivery is 1) the single firehouse or precinct being responsible for a defined area and 2) the cooperation, because they are “one”, between the firehouses and precincts.
I just don’t see competing, for-profit entities delivering that same kind of service. One need only see what happens when there are competing Ambulance Services for a defined area. It’s the most confusing thing you’ll ever witness.
Now…I’m all ears!
(P.S. I would love to hear from a firefighter or policeman). [/quote]
I’m a volunteer (as of a couple of days lol).
And you guys are asserting things about the free market that simply are not true. They do not have to be for-profit, they do not have to be anti-monopoly.
In fact anti-monopoly interference is anti-free market.
I don’t know where you guys are coming up with this stuff about a free market.
In the purest sense, a free-market is also one not regulated by a governmental entity.
In my way of thinking, there is 1) regulation 2) OVER regulation and 3) UNDER/NO regulation.
A true “free marketer” wants none…and IMO that can be worse than over-regulation, ESPECIALLY with something like Emergency Services.
Mufasa[/quote]
I was using free market in the sense that it isn’t over-regulated (IE run by the government). In the way we typically talk about a free market. Because, yes in all honesty no market anywhere is actually a pure free-market.
(First off…God Bless you for what you guys do and sacrifice, DD…thanks!)
Ummmmm…maybe we are talking too much “theory” here, DD…
But…are YOU confusing “big” or “dominant market share” with monopoly?
Let’s take our beloved Wal-Mart…people call them a “monopoly”, when in fact they are just “big” and battle it our in the markets they are in. Hold down cost…sell cheaper than the next guy…let people choose…free market…
A monopoly, on the other hand, crushes/makes it virtually impossible (either via regulation or brute-force) any and all opposition. They tend to be VERY “anti” free-market.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
(First off…God Bless you for what you guys do and sacrifice, DD…thanks!)
Ummmmm…maybe we are talking too much “theory” here, DD…
But…are YOU confusing “big” or “dominant market share” with monopoly?
Let’s take our beloved Wal-Mart…people call them a “monopoly”, when in fact they are just “big” and battle it our in the markets they are in. Hold down cost…sell cheaper than the next guy…let people choose…free market…
A monopoly, on the other hand, crushes/makes it virtually impossible (either via regulation or brute-force) any and all opposition. They tend to be VERY “anti” free-market.
Am I off here?
Mufasa[/quote]
I think you are off because you are leaving out natural monopolies.
But think of it this way. In a really small town there may only be one of many things. If there is only 1 barber shop, is it a monopoly? yes. Is it somehow no longer a free market? No.
Monopolies exist as part of a free market all the time.
When it comes to Emergency Services, are we “better off” having 1) a sort of “regulated monopoly”, OR 2) having them be more open to the “free market”?
That’s what I have to get my head wrapped around. (I’m leaning toward the former).
When it comes to Emergency Services, are we “better off” having 1) a sort of “regulated monopoly”, OR 2) having them be more open to the “free market”?
That’s what I have to get my head wrapped around. (I’m leaning toward the former).
Mufasa [/quote]
Are they not open to the free market?
I know police work definitely is. There is a whole market segment for privately funded and operated police work.