However i dont think Wikileaks has done anything so far and is more annoying than anything else.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The reality of life is that in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs - I’m fine with that.
[/quote]
No you are not.
YOu are fine with it when the US government does it, but not if Assange does it.
[/quote]
I was speaking of a country’s foreign policy. ANY country. It isn’t pretty all the time. Last time I checked, Assange and Wikkileaks are NOT a country, he is a radical with an agenda to harm the United States, a country of which I am a citizen of and where my family and I reside. So why would I be OK with someone putting my self and my family at risk? This isn’t something small and insignificant!
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
All it takes is one of our allies (or “borderline” relationships that were affected by this) finding out a critical piece of data and NOT sharing it with us because they don’t trust us anymore because of this incident. What if that piece of data were the time and location of a terrorist attack? Or a name? Or a flight number? Or any one of a hundred seemingly insignificant details that could lead to the prevention of a terrorist attack?
Are you people that are supporting this asshole so blind that you can’t see the implications here?
[/quote]
I do see the implications.
In this day and age governments have a hard time keeping secrets.
Awesome.
Since I do not think that teh Amercian empire makes you or your family any safer and regularly costs the lifes of other people I have no real problem if someone pisses on their parade either.
[/quote]
I don’t agree with everything that the United States government does either. But given the CURRENT way things are structured, right or wrong, Wikkileakes has moved our security in a negative direction.
Do you disagree with that?[/quote]
No, but that brings us back to the breaking eggs part.
The threat of exposure is all that keeps them in line nowadays and at the end of the day the real danger for American freedom and security is not al-Quaeda or Iran but the federal government of the US of A.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This x2
[quote]back211 wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This x2[/quote]
Completely irrelevant.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]back211 wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This x2[/quote]
Completely irrelevant.
[/quote]
irrelevant to what?
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This is similar to what I was thinking about the latest “leaks”. It seems like he’s just doing this to do it, and to be a troll. I was just afraid to post my real thoughts because I know there are a lot of the “blame America first” crowd on this forum, so whatever makes America look bad is A.O.K.
This is interesting: State Department To Columbia University Students: DO NOT Discuss WikiLeaks On Facebook, Twitter | HuffPost Latest News
I guess the State Department is trying to corral the information cats that WikiLeaks has put out for mass consumption, or maybe not. It is not clear what the State Depts official take is on this. Good thing the gov’t cannot seize our online information…oh.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The reality of life is that in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs - I’m fine with that.
[/quote]
No you are not.
YOu are fine with it when the US government does it, but not if Assange does it.
[/quote]
I was speaking of a country’s foreign policy. ANY country. It isn’t pretty all the time. Last time I checked, Assange and Wikkileaks are NOT a country, he is a radical with an agenda to harm the United States, a country of which I am a citizen of and where my family and I reside. So why would I be OK with someone putting my self and my family at risk? This isn’t something small and insignificant!
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
All it takes is one of our allies (or “borderline” relationships that were affected by this) finding out a critical piece of data and NOT sharing it with us because they don’t trust us anymore because of this incident. What if that piece of data were the time and location of a terrorist attack? Or a name? Or a flight number? Or any one of a hundred seemingly insignificant details that could lead to the prevention of a terrorist attack?
Are you people that are supporting this asshole so blind that you can’t see the implications here?
[/quote]
I do see the implications.
In this day and age governments have a hard time keeping secrets.
Awesome.
Since I do not think that teh Amercian empire makes you or your family any safer and regularly costs the lifes of other people I have no real problem if someone pisses on their parade either.
[/quote]
I don’t agree with everything that the United States government does either. But given the CURRENT way things are structured, right or wrong, Wikkileakes has moved our security in a negative direction.
Do you disagree with that?[/quote]
No, but that brings us back to the breaking eggs part.
The threat of exposure is all that keeps them in line nowadays and at the end of the day the real danger for American freedom and security is not al-Quaeda or Iran but the federal government of the US of A.
[/quote]
Really dude? You really think that the honor and integrity of ALL the the men and women serving in the United States government and military has been compromised to the point where the only think keeping them in line is the “threat” of exposure?
The only real danger for our freedom and security is NOT Al-Quaeda or Iran, but the Federal Government?
REALLY?
After statements like that, I’m not sure I can ever take anything you ever write seriously again. You need to have your fucking head examined.
First of all, the “threat of exposure” certainly hasn’t kept us in line at ALL. Look at the Iraq war! Dubbya got it into his head that we were going to invade and we DID. We didn’t give a fuck about popular opinion! Was it a Bullshit war? I don’t know anymore, because as of this moment we have a SHIT TON of battle tested troops right next door to Iran, who just HAPPENS to be the next big problem that the WORLD is facing… Only History will tell us after it all plays out. But one thing is for sure: if Iran gets out of line, we don’t to have mobilize across an ocean (which would take MONTHS), we can strike them in 15 or 20 MINUTES if we wanted to. I don’t think that was an accident. Did people suffer in the process? Sure they did, but how many people would suffer and die if Iran (you know, the country run by crazy religious sociopaths) developed a nuclear weapon and used it? Far more than the cost of getting us into position to stop it. Let me emphasize: None of that will happen now that WE, the United fucking States, is in a position to STOP it!
What did YOUR country do? Write a strongly worded letter? Ask them nicely to stop? The fact is you sit in relative safety to make your smug comments BECAUSE of the United States. You’d be speaking German right now if it weren’t for us. You’re WELCOME.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]back211 wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This x2[/quote]
Completely irrelevant.
[/quote]
irrelevant to what?[/quote]
To pretty much everything.
His actions stand and fall on their own merits and if it takes an egomaniacal narcissits to do what he did, so be it.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
What did YOUR country do? Write a strongly worded letter? Ask them nicely to stop? The fact is you sit in relative safety to make your smug comments BECAUSE of the United States. You’d be speaking German right now if it weren’t for us. You’re WELCOME.[/quote]
He speaks german, he’s from Austria. freethink about it LOL 
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
What did YOUR country do? Write a strongly worded letter? Ask them nicely to stop? The fact is you sit in relative safety to make your smug comments BECAUSE of the United States. You’d be speaking German right now if it weren’t for us. You’re WELCOME.[/quote]
He speaks german, he’s from Austria. freethink about it LOL
[/quote]
That actually made me lol.
To speak German, the horror!
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
What did YOUR country do? Write a strongly worded letter? Ask them nicely to stop? The fact is you sit in relative safety to make your smug comments BECAUSE of the United States. You’d be speaking German right now if it weren’t for us. You’re WELCOME.[/quote]
He speaks german, he’s from Austria. freethink about it LOL
[/quote]
That actually made me lol.
To speak German, the horror!
[/quote]
Whatever, I wasn’t looking at his location. But my point still stands. What did Austria do? Bend over to Germany with out a fight.
But this is PWI, though - lets harp on the ONE error and miss the point entirely.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The reality of life is that in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs - I’m fine with that.
[/quote]
No you are not.
YOu are fine with it when the US government does it, but not if Assange does it.
[/quote]
I was speaking of a country’s foreign policy. ANY country. It isn’t pretty all the time. Last time I checked, Assange and Wikkileaks are NOT a country, he is a radical with an agenda to harm the United States, a country of which I am a citizen of and where my family and I reside. So why would I be OK with someone putting my self and my family at risk? This isn’t something small and insignificant!
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
All it takes is one of our allies (or “borderline” relationships that were affected by this) finding out a critical piece of data and NOT sharing it with us because they don’t trust us anymore because of this incident. What if that piece of data were the time and location of a terrorist attack? Or a name? Or a flight number? Or any one of a hundred seemingly insignificant details that could lead to the prevention of a terrorist attack?
Are you people that are supporting this asshole so blind that you can’t see the implications here?
[/quote]
I do see the implications.
In this day and age governments have a hard time keeping secrets.
Awesome.
Since I do not think that teh Amercian empire makes you or your family any safer and regularly costs the lifes of other people I have no real problem if someone pisses on their parade either.
[/quote]
I don’t agree with everything that the United States government does either. But given the CURRENT way things are structured, right or wrong, Wikkileakes has moved our security in a negative direction.
Do you disagree with that?[/quote]
No, but that brings us back to the breaking eggs part.
The threat of exposure is all that keeps them in line nowadays and at the end of the day the real danger for American freedom and security is not al-Quaeda or Iran but the federal government of the US of A.
[/quote]
Really dude? You really think that the honor and integrity of ALL the the men and women serving in the United States government and military has been compromised to the point where the only think keeping them in line is the “threat” of exposure?
The only real danger for our freedom and security is NOT Al-Quaeda or Iran, but the Federal Government?
[/quote]
Yes really.
I do not doubt the integrity of all of them, just most of them and almost all who actually make the decisions.
But, even those who try to keep their dignity cant, because on a dirty playing field noone keeps his hands clean.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
What did YOUR country do? Write a strongly worded letter? Ask them nicely to stop? The fact is you sit in relative safety to make your smug comments BECAUSE of the United States. You’d be speaking German right now if it weren’t for us. You’re WELCOME.[/quote]
He speaks german, he’s from Austria. freethink about it LOL
[/quote]
That actually made me lol.
To speak German, the horror!
[/quote]
Whatever, I wasn’t looking at his location. But my point still stands. What did Austria do? Bend over to Germany with out a fight.
But this is PWI, though - lets harp on the ONE error and miss the point entirely.[/quote]
What would you have us do?
Fight an army that it took the whole world 5 years to take down?
edited to make sense
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The reality of life is that in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs - I’m fine with that.
[/quote]
No you are not.
YOu are fine with it when the US government does it, but not if Assange does it.
[/quote]
I was speaking of a country’s foreign policy. ANY country. It isn’t pretty all the time. Last time I checked, Assange and Wikkileaks are NOT a country, he is a radical with an agenda to harm the United States, a country of which I am a citizen of and where my family and I reside. So why would I be OK with someone putting my self and my family at risk? This isn’t something small and insignificant!
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
All it takes is one of our allies (or “borderline” relationships that were affected by this) finding out a critical piece of data and NOT sharing it with us because they don’t trust us anymore because of this incident. What if that piece of data were the time and location of a terrorist attack? Or a name? Or a flight number? Or any one of a hundred seemingly insignificant details that could lead to the prevention of a terrorist attack?
Are you people that are supporting this asshole so blind that you can’t see the implications here?
[/quote]
I do see the implications.
In this day and age governments have a hard time keeping secrets.
Awesome.
Since I do not think that teh Amercian empire makes you or your family any safer and regularly costs the lifes of other people I have no real problem if someone pisses on their parade either.
[/quote]
I don’t agree with everything that the United States government does either. But given the CURRENT way things are structured, right or wrong, Wikkileakes has moved our security in a negative direction.
Do you disagree with that?[/quote]
No, but that brings us back to the breaking eggs part.
The threat of exposure is all that keeps them in line nowadays and at the end of the day the real danger for American freedom and security is not al-Quaeda or Iran but the federal government of the US of A.
[/quote]
Really dude? You really think that the honor and integrity of ALL the the men and women serving in the United States government and military has been compromised to the point where the only think keeping them in line is the “threat” of exposure?
The only real danger for our freedom and security is NOT Al-Quaeda or Iran, but the Federal Government?
[/quote]
Yes really.
I do not doubt the integrity of all of them, just most of them and almost all who actually make the decisions.
But, even those who try to keep their dignity cant, because on a dirty playing field noone keeps his hands clean.
[/quote]
How many members of the United States military have YOU met? How about members of our government?
Does anyone else have a problem with someone saying that MOST of our military have no integrity and ALMOST ALL of our officers have no integrity?
Please justify your statement.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]back211 wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This x2[/quote]
Completely irrelevant.
[/quote]
irrelevant to what?[/quote]
To pretty much everything.
His actions stand and fall on their own merits and if it takes an egomaniacal narcissits to do what he did, so be it.
[/quote]
Actually, that was exactly relevant to this thread. It is asking our thoughts on the Wikileaks situation and so the motives of the “culprit” come into play.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The reality of life is that in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs - I’m fine with that.
[/quote]
No you are not.
YOu are fine with it when the US government does it, but not if Assange does it.
[/quote]
I was speaking of a country’s foreign policy. ANY country. It isn’t pretty all the time. Last time I checked, Assange and Wikkileaks are NOT a country, he is a radical with an agenda to harm the United States, a country of which I am a citizen of and where my family and I reside. So why would I be OK with someone putting my self and my family at risk? This isn’t something small and insignificant!
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
All it takes is one of our allies (or “borderline” relationships that were affected by this) finding out a critical piece of data and NOT sharing it with us because they don’t trust us anymore because of this incident. What if that piece of data were the time and location of a terrorist attack? Or a name? Or a flight number? Or any one of a hundred seemingly insignificant details that could lead to the prevention of a terrorist attack?
Are you people that are supporting this asshole so blind that you can’t see the implications here?
[/quote]
I do see the implications.
In this day and age governments have a hard time keeping secrets.
Awesome.
Since I do not think that teh Amercian empire makes you or your family any safer and regularly costs the lifes of other people I have no real problem if someone pisses on their parade either.
[/quote]
I don’t agree with everything that the United States government does either. But given the CURRENT way things are structured, right or wrong, Wikkileakes has moved our security in a negative direction.
Do you disagree with that?[/quote]
No, but that brings us back to the breaking eggs part.
The threat of exposure is all that keeps them in line nowadays and at the end of the day the real danger for American freedom and security is not al-Quaeda or Iran but the federal government of the US of A.
[/quote]
Really dude? You really think that the honor and integrity of ALL the the men and women serving in the United States government and military has been compromised to the point where the only think keeping them in line is the “threat” of exposure?
The only real danger for our freedom and security is NOT Al-Quaeda or Iran, but the Federal Government?
[/quote]
Yes really.
I do not doubt the integrity of all of them, just most of them and almost all who actually make the decisions.
But, even those who try to keep their dignity cant, because on a dirty playing field noone keeps his hands clean.
[/quote]
How many members of the United States military have YOU met? How about members of our government?
Does anyone else have a problem with someone saying that MOST of our military have no integrity and ALMOST ALL of our officers have no integrity?
Please justify your statement.[/quote]
I was talking about US diplomats, but whatever.
As far has having met US soldiers, quite a few, and a far as integrity goes, well they can keep their integrity by seriously bullshitting themsellves when it comes to what they are doing,
That does not make their victims any less dead or desolate but I guess as long as they sleep tight that is a-ok.
Also, if push came to shove you would be surprised how many of them would confiscate your weapons or plain shoot you.
All with their integrity intact, no doubt.
[quote]brnforce wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]back211 wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It seems that Assange revealed this classified information FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, not for transparency in the government or getting rid of corruption. This to me just shows Assange is an egotistical fuckhead and is revealing classified information to make a name for himself and for WikiLeaks… regardless of how he thinks what he is doing is ethical.[/quote]
This x2[/quote]
Completely irrelevant.
[/quote]
irrelevant to what?[/quote]
To pretty much everything.
His actions stand and fall on their own merits and if it takes an egomaniacal narcissits to do what he did, so be it.
[/quote]
Actually, that was exactly relevant to this thread. It is asking our thoughts on the Wikileaks situation and so the motives of the “culprit” come into play. [/quote]
No they dont.
It is out there, deal with it.
It is a flimsy way of turning away attention from the information contained in these files.
Ok, a little sanity, please!
Members of the US military are not mostly bad people. I’ve met a few. They’re quite impressive.
US diplomats and civil servants aren’t mostly bad people either. A few of my friends are starting careers in that sort of thing. They do it because they want to make the world better.
It does not require bad people for organizations to do harmful things. Ignorance, poor communication, misaligned incentives, and ordinary human failings are more than enough.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Ok, a little sanity, please!
Members of the US military are not mostly bad people. I’ve met a few. They’re quite impressive.
US diplomats and civil servants aren’t mostly bad people either. A few of my friends are starting careers in that sort of thing. They do it because they want to make the world better.
It does not require bad people for organizations to do harmful things. Ignorance, poor communication, misaligned incentives, and ordinary human failings are more than enough.[/quote]
Oh noez!
They stumbled and fell and ended up where they are, doing what they are doing.
Its a fucking tragedy man!