True dat. I can’t tell you how many times I have triggered* my 24 y.o. son with a non-PC comment. It’s difficult, but for the most part I have managed to hear him out without rolling my eyes.
*Triggered meaning causing him to scold me for being patriarchal, heteronormative, racially insensitive, etc.
He accuses YOU of those things? You of all people? Odd, not my impression at all. Has he ever encountered a workplace yet? Or angry customers? Attended an NFL game? Does he hold you to a higher standard than every one else?
My four year old is definitely discovering obstinancy and the “why” of everything. So I explain everything I can, as calmly as I can manage.
“But why do I have to hold your hand in the parking lot daddy? Why can’t I do it all by my own?”
“Because if a car hits you, you’ll die. That’s it, no more kiddo. Then your mom and I will be sad and we’ll have to have a replacement kid.”
I tend to think back to my younger self (think early to mid 20s) and the things I did and thought make no sense to me now lol … I hope that I can keep that perspective.
Yes. Due in June. So far everything seems well on track and the baby is healthily developing.
100% … I’ve been reading On Liberty and Mill makes a great argument for all ideas being open for discussion.
I’ve become resigned to understanding that I will never have it all figured out. It’s been very difficult for me to get to the point I think I’m at right now in terms of trying to understand the position and perspective that differs from my own. But, the more I go into a discussion with this in mind the more likely I am to understand and learn an aspect of the topic that had not been readily clear to me before.
That being said, I’ll always bust chops. A tiger can’t change its spots 
@polo77j Congratulations!
I LOVE that. Yes, he makes that point very well. The need to hear other ideas.
There’s still hope for a son-in-law like this! I’m pretty sure you’ll remember the reference. Ha.
Betcha didn’t see that coming, huh?
Oh yeah, he’s had a number of jobs, including service jobs. Did fine in all of them.
I certainly hope so.
Ironically, he has on occasion regaled me with tales of internet discussion boards he’s been kicked off of because others found him too patriarchal/heteronormative/racially insensitive/etc.
Cute. I love that age. Edited to say - Not so fun to feel like you have to be so vigilant all the time. Suicide watch. I think every parent can vividly remember some close call.
There’s nothing like parenting to disabuse you of any cute ideas you had about being able to control everything.
One of his best…
I’m talking too much.
@treco I know you’ve had real worry and some heartbreak related to at least one of your young adult kids. I hope you know I wouldn’t make light of that. I was thinking about more minor things when I replied to your “stay off my lawn” comment.
You prove TB’s point with this statement:
This is the summation of it all.
This is all you needed to say. But what you think, and what is are not always in sync.
Technically, all protestations from the LGBTQ+ (LMNOP) should have died off with the victory in the supreme court. But, I suspect it’s not really about the government. They want to win,not only in society, not only in government but also in the churches.
The latter is never going to happen.
Wot?
Is this under the assumption that somehow bigotry was ended with the SCOTUS ruling?
Of course it will. No religion stands up to society in the long run.
This is an assumption that you can legislate bigotry. You cannot. Never could.
Wishful thinking on your part. Religion has outlasted many societies and stood the test of time against all odds. The society will fall before religion will.
Knowing this, why would you say
If bigotry can’t be legislated away, doesn’t it make perfect sense that protesting wouldn’t end with SCOTUS?
Not a specific society, society in general. All religion bows to society over time. Or it eventually goes the way of the dodo.
I’m not really sure what he means.
Judaism, for example, outlived the Babylonian Empire, Alexander the Great, various internal upheavals, the Greeks, part II (celebrated tonight), the Romans (although that was a big one, lasting effects now), various crusades of various kingdoms, and Hitler.
They’re all gone. We’re still here. Not going anywhere.
@ No religion stands up to society in the long run.
This is something you hear from the New Atheists. Humans are evolving past the need for religion. Soon we’ll all be more sophisticated. Get woke to the idea that science has replaced the need to believe in anything supernatural.
Belief in spaghetti monsters aside, they fail to understand many of the very positive social aspects of humans building communities of trust outside close kinship groups, the common values that bind people together in harship. We have yet to see a secular collective/ community endure.
So basically they are a re-boot of the Tobiads (Greeks and secularizing Jews) who defiled the Temple as unnecessary superstition in 167 BCE.
And who were, promptly thereafter, defeated by my people who rejected secularization (and candidly should have been defeated if we did not have assistance of the kind secularist just do not understand).
Starting a celebration called Hanukkah, which starts again tonight.
2184 years (give or take).
Happy Hanukkah, to one and all.
Judaism survived societies, not society. In the absence of a complete social collapse, society has outlived every no longer existent religion to date. Religions follow a pretty short time span given the length of humanity.
Would you say Judaism has NOT undergone immense fundamental changes surrounding nearly every aspect of society since it’s creation? People adapt. As religions are made up of people, the more time goes on the more they tend to stray from the original.
Re: “Gays winning in churches” as Pat has spoken about, churches have been suffering crippling losses in that regard for long enough to notice at this point. The absurd assumption that somehow Christianity won’t continue to adapt to homosexuality (the way it already has) is confusing to say the least.
Also I’m not saying Judaism (or any religion) is “going anywhere” in anywhere near the short term. Religion lifespans tend to be measured in thousands of years. It’ll likely be quite a while before Judaism goes the way of the dodo, and even longer for the religions that came after it.
No SINGLE religion stands up to society in the long run. The concept of religion will probably be everlasting (or at least until we find a way to nuke ourselves into oblivion).
I’m happy to report that as a “New Atheist” I can assure you I fail to understand none of this. Religion serves a very vital place in society, I just don’t personally accept it. Pretty big difference tbh.
Exactly. Thanks for the history. Happy Hannukah!
I’m talking Harris, Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens. They love to look at religious belief as unsophisticated, a parasite, a delusion that gets in the way of science, and modernity, and reason. We’ll some day be embarrassed of because it’s so backward and primitive. Individuals believing in the tooth fairy. They focus on individual belief, and on all the aspects of religion that they see as dysfunctional. Belief is only one aspect of religion.
When you look at belonging, and behavior you begin to understand why religion does something that no secular collective group has been able to do for any extended period of time. Create a community of trust, based on shared moral values, where people will voluntarily sacrifice for the group.
The average lifespan of secular communal communities is eight years. It’s really, really rare to find some secular communal group that lasts 20 years. When people experience hardship or discord they do a cost benefit analysis and walk away. They don’t have a value system sufficient to sustain voluntary sacrifice. No ties to bind.
This is why progressives who claim to want to be collective, claim to care about the group, can’t get anything done without a lot of government intervention.
If you take 100 of Jewbacca’s people, they’ll help each other, start a school, start businesses, take care of the poor and elderly among them. Their faith is social glue. So far, humans haven’t found any better way to create lasting communities of trust outside of family bonds.
Are you basing this on research, or just your impressions? Do you assume that churches that adopt more progressive attitudes are booming, growing in membership, in relation to churches that have not? Mainline Protestant churches who have liberalized their teachings on homosexuality, or have downplayed sexual morality are experiencing rapid growth? Do you assume they are booming in membership, in relation to say the Catholics or Evangelicals?
I recently attended the wedding of a gay friend of my wife’s. They were married in a catholic church by their priest that they’ve apparently known for years or something. Damn thing was like 2 hours long, extra cheesy, bleeding with stereotypes. The existence of this in any number shows a significant change re: Catholic churches over the last, say, 100 years?
Booming in membership isn’t the bar to earn the level of change. The mere existence of it is proof of change.
I’ve never stated anything to the contrary. As I’ve said many times in my life (several times on these boards alone), religion serves a very vital role in society. I don’t have disdain for the concept, I merely don’t wish to be ruled by it, and I don’t wish to be involved with it.