Self proclaimed liberal chiming in here (and I like to think I can accept other opinions sometimes). Statements like this are akin to calling Trump supporters ‘deplorable’ and only serve to further the divide while showing off the ignorance of a blanket statement like ‘liberals simply can’t fathom that anyone would ever think differently of them.’
I’d wager a guess that the portion of ‘liberals’ who fit your statement are not only impossible to quantify, but wouldn’t be anywhere near a significant number if you could.
And the people he described are not even liberals and don’t represent liberal thinking. He just swallowed the Republican bait of labelling anything they don’t agree with as liberal.
Back at the original topic I do think Trump has a decent shot at reelection based on the following factors.
We really like to elect Presidents to two terms when you look at recent history.
if the economy is in good shape Trumps in good shape. People may want someone who isn’t as big of a jackass but the demand for change is going to be way less if he is viewed as an economic success at the time.
Trump can you believe he said or did that fatigue. By being a constant buffoon who contradicts himself constantly Trump has cocooned himself from attacks. People are so already used to Trump saying dumb things almost constantly. I can’t even remember half the stupid things because of the frequency. People are so desensitized to this now so bad things tend to not stick as well.
No matter who runs against Trump they will be at a mud slinging disadvantage. Trump is good at attacking people and having stupid attacks stick. Low energy Jeb didn’t make much sense but once he focused on it it hurt him. Trump repeats things into the “truth”. Ted Cruz couldn’t hold a candle to the number of lies and distortions but Lying Ted stuck despite that. Not to mention hard to say you’re going to run as the adult in the room if you won’t stoop to his level.
I could see it being a GWB Kerry type election. People thought GWB was an idiot but in the end he won a narrow victory. If Russia scandals don’t pan out Trump has an easy attack on any democrat as well.
I hope I’m wrong because I think Trumps behavior alone should disqualify him against anyone but with those factors I certainly can see him winning a second term. I wouldn’t lay any money on it, but he will have a shot. He is going to need to turn some approval rating numbers around before then because he can’t win at the current trend level
Ok, so I am sowing division by pointing out that a lot of self-proclaimed liberals actually don’t practice what they preach on terms of tolerance, open-mindedness, and appreciation of diversity, and how I wish they were, in fact, more liberal in their thinking? I’m being divisive by urging liberals to be less divisive?
Not sure I’m am I’m understanding you on this one.
My point is really that the irony of a lot of liberals are anything but - they are driven by confirmation bias, operate in self-selected echo chambers, and become bumfuzzled when they run into ideas and people different from them. That’s precisely what many liberals accuse conservatives of being and what sets self-styled liberals apart from them. And yet - they are guilty of the same sin, and it’s made worse by the hypocrisy.
And it isn’t “divisive” to point out how the main of Liberalism has become increasingly illiberal over time. That’s an observation about a political movement, and it’s as “divisive” as noting how Conservatism no longer wants to conserve its original principles any more and is hardly conservative about anything (which is true). Criticism isn’t creating division.
I doubt we could quantify it either, but I think you’re wrong about its significance - it’s driving much of the agenda on social issues on the Left. Shutting down dissent on campuses, hoping for ends-around to the democratic process on social issues, laws punishing religious bakers for the sake of punishment alone, all that. Plus, look at demographic trends - look at where liberals lives, how they cloister themselves, and how less often they engage socially with conservatives (as friends, etc.)
But to be clear, I don’t think this is all ‘liberals’ - and the scare quotes are intentional, because I obviously don’t think people who operate this way are very liberal at all.
Ofc not. By contrast, Hillary wasn’t sowing division in this aspect by calling half of Trump’s supporters Xenophobic deplorables. They way it DOES sow division is by lumping all ‘liberals’ into the same category and accusing them of something like them being incapable of fathoming a different opinion having merit. I would daresay the liberal usage of this tactic was a large factor in losing the 2016 election.
Ironically, seems to be exactly what you’re doing here.
Agreed, assuming the scope of said criticism hits its mark and doesn’t tag a few others in the process
I wasn’t speaking of its significance, merely its presence compared to the total.
Well I wish you would have said this up at the top before I started typing. Now I feel silly.
I’d have to humbly disagree - while I’m far from perfect, I actually actively seek out people who think differently from me. I learn from these people, even if I never come around to their point of view. Again, I don’t claim perfection here, but I’m intentional about wanting to be exposed to views other than my own. That’s true even here in PWI.
Oh, don’t, I definitely could have stated my case better and more clearly. Sorry for any confusion.
I was referring to criticizing liberals for painting with a broad brush following up your criticism of liberals with a broad brush, not your placement on that metric specifically.
Ain’t gonna lie - l don’t want to hear someone’s opinion, when it is diametrically opposed to mine. I already feel that they are wrong, so why suffer through their pontification?
I’m thinking more like a place in West Hell…where little Demons are running around with “MAGA” hats on…and he is being tortured by a Succubus who looks like Hillary Clinton.
If someone is not thinking nor behaving like a liberal then how are they a liberal? They can call themselves liberals. You can call them liberals. That doesn’t make it so.
You also need to study up on the history of how liberal became a pejorative term during the Reagan years.
Republicans have done a terrific job with that word. Disagree with them on anything and you are a Prius driving art history major who is triggered by everything and require safe spaces on campus
But when you look at it objectively, the correct term would be “authoritarian left” or “neo-marxists” while the original meaning of the world “liberal” would be the complete antithesis to that.
John Locke and Montesquieu most certainly would find both repulsive - aka the horseshoe theory
Good question - hence my use of intentional scare quotes when describing these “liberals”. That was my entire point - despite the self-labeling, they’re anything but.
Anyone with teenagers or adult kids better get used to meeting their ideas and opinions with curiosity instead of a rush to judgement. Otherwise, they will either stop talking to you about their lives, or you’re going to be constantly frustrated by their failure to be carbon copies of their parents. Haha. I’ll admit, it’s sometimes hard to stop and ask, “Hey, please tell me more about why you want to do that?” Instead of popping off with your first impulse which is “That’s dumb, and it’s going to end badly!!”
Yep. Ha! These humans have their own ideas. And they sometimes do things that make no sense to us. Haha. Are you expecting, Polo? I seem to remember a comment about baby gear.
Seriously, with politics and religion it’s a bit the same, right? There’s a sense of comfort when you agree, find common ground. Then you run into people who don’t think like you, maybe they’re the opposite. If you’re able to meet them with openness, intellectual curiosity, and have some genuine desire to find out why they think the way they do, there’s some possibility that you will at least understand each other better. Not see each other as enemies. We can sense that in other people.
Anyway, I worry about our partisan divide. I’m trying to be more curious, instead of deciding that I have it figured out. It’s a work in progress.