To the original question, has everyone seen fight club? Throughout the film he keeps on talking about ‘lost males’ who have no position in society or purpose. I think that’s why we do martial arts. Because we WANT to fight, it’s what we’re designed to do, and even though society, your mother, your wife, and your teachers all try to tell you it’s wrong, you can’t change your genetic mold. That great hormone, testosterone, needs to be fed with blood and sweat sometimes.
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The problem with this line of reasoning is that it gets close to saying it is ok to bash people who somehow transgress against you, because it is ‘natural’ for you to defend yourself and others. And it also ignores the role of reason in being able to control your base instincts.
I’m all for self-defence, but I hope I never do have to defend myself. I don’t want to be fed with blood and sweat.
I think martial arts have awesome benefits- fitness, coordination, self-defence and so on. Extracting blood ain’t one of them for me.
[quote]cymblmn wrote:
In a society where there is no warrior class and acts of aggression are punishable socially and legally, why practice something that trains people to react violently? Most people in society will not have a violent life, and excluding service men and women (Military, Law Enforcement, Private Security), we do not have to fight for our lives on a daily basis. So why invest the hundreds to thousands of dollars, time, sweat, blood, and even broken bodies, into something that in the end is unusable on a daily basis?
Taking into considering that most of the philosophical thought behind martial arts and non violence developed during a time of peace in Japan, when the Samurai were united under the rule of the Emperor or Shogun (sorry if I misspelled), and sought to find ways of justifying their continued existence as a warrior / noble class.
I understand many of the arguments about Martial art being a tool for personal growth, fitness, and to some extent spiritual satisfaction, but do these reasons justify training like a warrior? Especially when there are others ways of achieving the same end that is less expensive? If the above reasons were the case to continue the practice of martial arts, we should just pursue the budo and not judo or jitsu forms of the arts.
I ask this question, as a fellow martial artist, and as a person that trains like a warrior would.
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So you don’t get your ass kicked if you ever have to defend yourself. If someone does something to your family or to your friends, you may have to defend them brotha.
Well, besided the benefits of self defense or confidence boosting, how about it’s a great way to stay in shape? It trains mental quickness as much as physical quickness and agility… and how about flexibility and REAL cardio vascular health. I find it to be more entertaining than jogging on a treadmill like a rat… my 2 cents
(1) the system of legal punishment for violent conflict doesnt exist the world over.
(2) such a system doesnt stop attacks, it just tries to punish them after the fact. Having a guy sent to prison will in no way fix the damage done to your life through say broken knees, loss of life - yours or a loved ones.
(2.1) Though such a system exists that same system has clauses for the use of violence in the absence of police protection. Ie: your allowed to kill if you sincerely feared for you life, or were in threat of immediate grevious harm. ie: rape. if the system doesnt have a problem with it why should we?
(3) Confidence. I think exposure to serious yet essentially playfull violence such as full contact yet controlled sparing will leave you better prepared and confident in aggressive/violent situations then say meditation and flower arrangeing. Ive seen skinny kids who walk tall after a few karate lessons. Im not saying they can fight. But exposure made them more confident.
(4) Society has its ups and downs and may not be allways around to fullfill its obligations to its people.
the control and focus that is learned in being able to do some of the things in martial arts…its why I’ve been in them in one sort or another since I was ten
and sometimes yes it is nice to just put on the gloves/pads and duke it out
As long as you ‘know’ that, you’re putting yourself at incredible risk. If someone has a gun, you do what they say. Yes you have a chance of getting out of it, but there’s a much higher risk of becoming a paraplegic or being killed. It’s not worth it.
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Bullshit.
A man comes up behind you, puts a gun to your back. What do you do?
A man comes up behind you, puts a gun to your back. You are with your girlfriend/wife. He tells you that he’s going to rape you and your girl. What do you do?
A man comes up behind you, puts a gun to your back. You are with your kid. He tells you that he’s going to take your kid and have his fun. What do you do?
A man comes up to you in a parking lot, points a gun at you and tells you to hand over you keys. What do you do?
A man comes up to you in a parking lot, points a gun at you and tells you to hand over you keys. Inside the car is your wife and kid. What do you do?
To give a generic answer like “do whatever he says” is nonsense. To say “it’s not worth it” also means nothing. What’s not worth it? Losing your life because you didn’t hand over your wallet is one thing, but would give in so easily if a loved was involved?
I ask this question, as a fellow martial artist, and as a person that trains like a warrior would.
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Cymbimn just for clarification . . .no one can in modern society live life as a warrior in acient times. Back in those days (specially in Japan) the warriors were overloards of vast regions with plenty of peasants, artisans and others that would produce food and cloting and weapons.
Training would be an all day event and it usually started very early in life. 9 or 11 to be precise.
To be able to replicate on a 2 to 3 hours per day is not enough. It is a feeble attempt to maintain part of the history and to help kids manage the transition from childhood into adulthood.
As a child, in my class at least 10 minutes every was spent learning how to fall. How valuable of a skill is that?
1 year ago, I feel off a 10-foot hill, face first, onto the top of a brick retaining wall. And not rolled down the hill kind of fall. I left the ground and landed 10 feet down. Had it not been for me learning how to roll, I would have lost most my teeth, maybe broke half my face.
Instead, I just moved the way I was taught to and rolled out. Only got a few stitches and some soft tissue damage.
[quote]cymblmn wrote:
In a society where there is no warrior class and acts of aggression are punishable socially and legally, why practice something that trains people to react violently? Most people in society will not have a violent life, and excluding service men and women (Military, Law Enforcement, Private Security), we do not have to fight for our lives on a daily basis. So why invest the hundreds to thousands of dollars, time, sweat, blood, and even broken bodies, into something that in the end is unusable on a daily basis?
Taking into considering that most of the philosophical thought behind martial arts and non violence developed during a time of peace in Japan, when the Samurai were united under the rule of the Emperor or Shogun (sorry if I misspelled), and sought to find ways of justifying their continued existence as a warrior / noble class.
I understand many of the arguments about Martial art being a tool for personal growth, fitness, and to some extent spiritual satisfaction, but do these reasons justify training like a warrior? Especially when there are others ways of achieving the same end that is less expensive? If the above reasons were the case to continue the practice of martial arts, we should just pursue the budo and not judo or jitsu forms of the arts.
I ask this question, as a fellow martial artist, and as a person that trains like a warrior would.
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Where do you live that there is no aggression or violence?
As long as you ‘know’ that, you’re putting yourself at incredible risk. If someone has a gun, you do what they say. Yes you have a chance of getting out of it, but there’s a much higher risk of becoming a paraplegic or being killed. It’s not worth it.
Bullshit.
A man comes up behind you, puts a gun to your back. What do you do?
A man comes up behind you, puts a gun to your back. You are with your girlfriend/wife. He tells you that he’s going to rape you and your girl. What do you do?
A man comes up behind you, puts a gun to your back. You are with your kid. He tells you that he’s going to take your kid and have his fun. What do you do?
A man comes up to you in a parking lot, points a gun at you and tells you to hand over you keys. What do you do?
A man comes up to you in a parking lot, points a gun at you and tells you to hand over you keys. Inside the car is your wife and kid. What do you do?
To give a generic answer like “do whatever he says” is nonsense. To say “it’s not worth it” also means nothing. What’s not worth it? Losing your life because you didn’t hand over your wallet is one thing, but would give in so easily if a loved was involved?
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Well put
Also, at very close range, a gun is not much more effective than a knife.
[quote]mica617 wrote:
Most people that I know who have taken martial arts weren’t trained to “react violently”, rather trained to show discipline and restraint and PROPERLY react when physicality is needed.
We tend to show more self control rather than snap reactions and we are a ton less brutal although much more effective when violence is involved. [/quote]
Martial art is especially good for children – they learn to pay attention, follow directions, gain coordination, and many other benefits. They learn to control their anger and use force when necessary. If the teacher is a good one, they learn to respect other members of the class.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
cymblmn wrote:
In a society where there is no warrior class and acts of aggression are punishable socially and legally, why practice something that trains people to react violently? Most people in society will not have a violent life, and excluding service men and women (Military, Law Enforcement, Private Security), we do not have to fight for our lives on a daily basis. So why invest the hundreds to thousands of dollars, time, sweat, blood, and even broken bodies, into something that in the end is unusable on a daily basis?
Taking into considering that most of the philosophical thought behind martial arts and non violence developed during a time of peace in Japan, when the Samurai were united under the rule of the Emperor or Shogun (sorry if I misspelled), and sought to find ways of justifying their continued existence as a warrior / noble class.
I understand many of the arguments about Martial art being a tool for personal growth, fitness, and to some extent spiritual satisfaction, but do these reasons justify training like a warrior? Especially when there are others ways of achieving the same end that is less expensive? If the above reasons were the case to continue the practice of martial arts, we should just pursue the budo and not judo or jitsu forms of the arts.
I ask this question, as a fellow martial artist, and as a person that trains like a warrior would.
Where do you live that there is no aggression or violence?[/quote]
I was under the impression that it was the ultimate aim of martial artists to avoid conflict. I think of Matsimura (spelling?) along with Funakoshi in his book Karate-do. And I currently reside in a very small college town in the midwest.
I posted this question so long ago I honestly forget why I posted it. Sorry.
I lift to be strong and fit. I am 55 years old and want to be strong and able to do anything physically I want.
I take close quarter combat training from an ex Navy Seal because I am a Transit bus driver who drives the slums/projects and I need to be able to defend myself from young men who are very fit and have nothing to lose. I am seat belted in and cannot move.
Last month a young man stood in the doorway of my bus and pepper sprayed me. Why? Because he could. He was laughing so hard he almost didn’t notice that I had blocked most of the spray with my forearm and was closing the door on him so that we could discuss the situation. Fortunately, he escaped. I was told that if I had hurt him I would have been the one arrested because he had stopped his assault. I am sure there is some irony in there somewhere. It just escapes me at the present.
I live with violence and the threat of violence every day. Violence is not an abstract concept for me...It is my daily reality and I never know when or in what form it will arrive.
Therefore, I take real martial arts so I will have a CHANCE to lift, be strong, and able to do the things that I like to do...Like live another day.
cyblmn you have some real misconceptions about martial arts. It’s not all about violence. There are plenty of controlling techniques in martial arts.
The reason why many today practice martial arts is the same as the Okinawans hundreds of years ago. Martial arts is the one form of self defense that the government can’t take away.
As effective as guns are you can’t take them everywhere. You can’t take them with you overseas. You can’t take them on an airplane. Guns are limited in their use. You can’t just smoke someone because they threw a punch at you.
Guns can give a false sense of security. There have been plenty is instances of someone who was armed getting disarmed and shot with their own weapon.
I had a teacher who was a cop who was jumped by 8 attackers, he couldn’t get his gun out and had to go hand to hand with them.
If they had beaten him down they could have taken his gun away from him. If all he had to defend himself with was his gun, they might have taken it away from him as he was drawing it.
So you are wrong in your premise, there is plenty of reason to practice martial arts even in todays world.
[quote]cymblmn2006 wrote:
I was under the impression that it was the ultimate aim of martial artists to avoid conflict. I think of Matsimura (spelling?) along with Funakoshi in his book Karate-do. And I currently reside in a very small college town in the midwest.
I posted this question so long ago I honestly forget why I posted it. Sorry.
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I didn’t even realize this thread had been started almost a year ago. Yes, the goal is to avoid conflict. This is best done when you are not clueless of how to defend yourself. You can stand your ground without running in fright at the slightest opposition.
In fact, it isn’t just to avoid conflict, but to control situations you may find youself in. In that aspect, it teaches self control and above all, knowledge of self as far as your own abilities. There are many people today who will never push themselves to their limits. They will never know what they are capable of. I can honestly say I don’t have that problem.
