[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
laughing
mike[/quote]
Can’t hear you.
Come out of the closet already.
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
That young lady was 11, and demonstrated a level of proficiency and respect with her military pattern firearm that most adults will never have.
i don’t care,
i decided long ago not to respond to your posts anymore, remember ?[/quote]
You tell him! Keep on not responding to his posts! Hey, wait a minute here…
I am confused now, what is wrong with an 11 year old using a rifle?
[quote]John S. wrote:
I am confused now, what is wrong with an 11 year old using a rifle? [/quote]
The sensible question is what’s wrong with an 11 year old NOT USING a riffle ?
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
It isn’t very hard to convince people that the official 911 story is a lie, if one can persuade them to surmount their initial resistance and look objectively at the available evidence. [/quote]
The official 9/11 story has holes the size of Jupiter’s craters. Shit, it’s not far fetched to believe the intelligence community knew it was going to happen, and some people in the government deliberately let it happen. But you cross the line when you pretend Israel or some other government was behind it.
The story is plain (plane?) and simple. For whatever reasons, a bunch of angry Arabs decided to blow up civilian targets. Get over it! Your theories are only distracting from the important issues; namely, criminal wars and human rights violations.
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
John S. wrote:
I am confused now, what is wrong with an 11 year old using a rifle?
The sensible question is what’s wrong with an 11 year old NOT USING a riffle ?
[/quote]
“I know. I just said that.”
“I know you just said that.”
“Okay, I’m not sure where you’re going with this.”
“Well, I’m not sure where you’re going with this.”
“That’s what I said.”
“That’s what I’m saying to you.”
“All right.”
“…Touche.”
[quote]lixy wrote:
jeffdirect wrote:
It isn’t very hard to convince people that the official 911 story is a lie, if one can persuade them to surmount their initial resistance and look objectively at the available evidence.
The official 9/11 story has holes the size of Jupiter’s craters. Shit, it’s not far fetched to believe the intelligence community knew it was going to happen, and some people in the government deliberately let it happen. But you cross the line when you pretend Israel or some other government was behind it.
The story is plain (plane?) and simple. For whatever reasons, a bunch of angry Arabs decided to blow up civilian targets. Get over it! Your theories are only distracting from the important issues; namely, criminal wars and human rights violations.[/quote]
Ok.
What plane struck building 7 to make him crumble at free fall speed ?
Why the testimony of William Rodriguez was censured from the 911 report ?
Have you watched David Ray Griffin conferences ?
Why are we fighting wars for Israel? Iraq, Afghanistan, maybe Iran next? Why are AMERICANS dying? why have over half a million Iraqis died?
Just like the Muslim extremists hate the Jews, the Israeli extremists hate the Muslims. It just so happens that the extremists happen to be in power.
Israeli spy programs which grant them 800,000 pages of top secret documents including nuclear secrets (Pollard) is just as bad if not worse than Iran trying to get the knowledge to enrich uranium. However, only Iran is acused of trying to start WWIII and called evil.
We often hear politicians say that we support Israel since it is the only democracy in the middle east and that it is our ally.
I would like to dispute these two assertions:
- Israel is NOT an ally. The spy programs are just the tip of the iceberg.
The power of their lobby is amazing. For example, they got the news networks to call the illegal settlements “neighborhoods”. doesnt that sound nice? Also, it just so happens that every act of aggression towards the occupied people is called retaliation or defense, while every person throwing a stone is called a militant or attacker? Twisting the media like that just misinforms Americans.
Its bad enough that a self sufficient country receive the lion’s share of aid, when places like Darfur are more deserving. They also found a way to purchase state of the art aircraft and military equipment at surplus pricing. So the US tax payers are taking it up the ass on that one too.
the list goes on…
suffice it to say that they sure as hell dont act like allies.
- They are NOT democratic.
What would you do if you were forced to show a passport to travel anywhere, even in your own boarders? What if your religion was printed boldly right next to your picture and that determined if you could pass or not?
I would be pretty pissed off about not having freedom to move about my own country to work or see family. That is the case for non jewish people under Israeli control.
In Israel, it is a crime punishable by jail time ( 1 year in prison if im not mistaken) to impersonate a Jew, but not if you impersonate another religion. This means that there must be some special treatment for non Jews to try to impersonate a Jew. In fact the best lands, most rights, and most freedom are granted to the Jews of Israel. Others are denied.
not very democratic.
So this racist, back stabbing, oppressive regime is the only democracy in the region and our greatest ally?
Bullshit. On these grounds, I would like to see the US return to a sensible foreign policy and let Israel fight its own battles.
Israel is a dictatorship, just as Pakistan, and both regimes are supported by Washington.
Pakistani and Israeli citizens are not free citizens.
Zionist US controlled medias are censuring every news painting Irael in a negative way.
Only free thinking Americans escape this brainwashing.
Most,-even those considering themselves superior to the common “sheeple”- ,believe America stands for freedom, at home and abroad.
They hold gun culture to be the synonyme for freedom, and consider weak and unwise those not agreeing with that analogy.
They will train their 11 year old daughters to use guns so they will be ready in the future to be shipped to Pakistan, Lybia, Iran and install “democracy”.
[quote]UB07 wrote:
Why are we fighting wars for Israel? Iraq, Afghanistan, maybe Iran next? Why are AMERICANS dying? why have over half a million Iraqis died?[/quote]
Those numbers are way off. You hurt your point.[quote]
Just like the Muslim extremists hate the Jews, the Israeli extremists hate the Muslims. It just so happens that the extremists happen to be in power.
Israeli spy programs which grant them 800,000 pages of top secret documents including nuclear secrets (Pollard) is just as bad if not worse than Iran trying to get the knowledge to enrich uranium. However, only Iran is acused of trying to start WWIII and called evil. [/quote]
But Israel isn’t threatening to use their nukes as an offensive weapon. Hell, I’d be okay with Iran getting nuke energy if they weren’t running around threatening to use a nuke once they get it.[quote]
We often hear politicians say that we support Israel since it is the only democracy in the middle east and that it is our ally.
I would like to dispute these two assertions:
- Israel is NOT an ally. The spy programs are just the tip of the iceberg.
[/quote]
They may not be an ally. But they are an enemy of our enemy. [quote]
The power of their lobby is amazing. For example, they got the news networks to call the illegal settlements “neighborhoods”. doesnt that sound nice? Also, it just so happens that every act of aggression towards the occupied people is called retaliation or defense, while every person throwing a stone is called a militant or attacker? Twisting the media like that just misinforms Americans.
Its bad enough that a self sufficient country receive the lion’s share of aid, when places like Darfur are more deserving. They also found a way to purchase state of the art aircraft and military equipment at surplus pricing. So the US tax payers are taking it up the ass on that one too. [/quote]
I can’t back this up because I don’t care to look, but according to Ron Paul for every dollar we give Israel, we give three to the rest of the Arab world. Secondly, why does Darfur deserve the money more? So far as I’m concerned you have to work for something to deserve it. It’s been said that when the bad guys come for you, you need to give them your teeth, not your belly. Well, Israel is certainly giving more teeth than belly while the opposite is true in Darfur. That isn’t me saying we should stay out of Darfur, I think that it should be a hotspot for US mercs to clean the place up. I’m just saying that I don’t see why Darfur “deserves” it more.[quote]
the list goes on…
suffice it to say that they sure as hell dont act like allies.
- They are NOT democratic. [/quote]
Neither are we.[quote]
What would you do if you were forced to show a passport to travel anywhere, even in your own boarders?
[/quote]
Try getting on an airplane without an ID card. Try getting on the road without one. Ever been stopped in a DUI checkpoint? How about a border patrol one?[quote]
What if your religion was printed boldly right next to your picture and that determined if you could pass or not?
[/quote]
Tell that to American Muslims getting on airplanes today. It isn’t quite as bad as that, but it’s a start.[quote]
I would be pretty pissed off about not having freedom to move about my own country to work or see family. That is the case for non jewish people under Israeli control.[/quote]
No you wouldn’t, because you aren’t. You haven’t the freedom to go anywhere unless you can get someone to drive you. Rather it’s a priviledge that will readily be revoked when you don’t play ball. I confess I make the situation sound a little worse than it really is, but get back to me in 10 years.[quote]
In Israel, it is a crime punishable by jail time ( 1 year in prison if im not mistaken) to impersonate a Jew, but not if you impersonate another religion. This means that there must be some special treatment for non Jews to try to impersonate a Jew. In fact the best lands, most rights, and most freedom are granted to the Jews of Israel. Others are denied.
not very democratic. [/quote]
I’m not condoning their policies. I also wouldn’t go around calling a group of people subject to a draft a free people. But you speak as if instead of a self-interested country, they were our enemies. I’ll give you that our alliance may be one of convenience, but they aren’t our enemies.[quote]
So this racist, back stabbing, oppressive regime is the only democracy in the region and our greatest ally?
Bullshit. On these grounds, I would like to see the US return to a sensible foreign policy and let Israel fight its own battles. [/quote]
Well, your reasoning sucks, but your conclusion is valid. Israel needs to fight their own battles simply because they can. They don’t need our help to kick Arab butt.
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
But Israel isn’t threatening to use their nukes as an offensive weapon. Hell, I’d be okay with Iran getting nuke energy if they weren’t running around threatening to use a nuke once they get it.
[/quote]
I need to run to the gym so I don’t have time to read your whole post, but this bit is just insane.
You are echoing, word for word, Peres’ position. Not really surprising given the Jewish bias in most American media, but I expect more from politically active people.
Iran do NOT use weapons offensively. They are already in too much trouble economically to want to start a conflict. And if they did, they would be extinct within days given their military inferiority. Always keep that in mind when talking about the situation there. Now, present to us where Iran is “running around threatening to use a nuke once they get it”.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
But Israel isn’t threatening to use their nukes as an offensive weapon. Hell, I’d be okay with Iran getting nuke energy if they weren’t running around threatening to use a nuke once they get it.
I need to run to the gym so I don’t have time to read your whole post, but this bit is just insane.
You are echoing, word for word, Peres’ position. Not really surprising given the Jewish bias in most American media, but I expect more from politically active people.
Iran do NOT use weapons offensively. They are already in too much trouble economically to want to start a conflict. And if they did, they would be extinct within days given their military inferiority. Always keep that in mind when talking about the situation there. Now, present to us where Iran is “running around threatening to use a nuke once they get it”. [/quote]
Let me make my position more clearly. I think that Iran is playing a game of Brinksmanship with the U.S. Ahmadenijad has said on multiple occasions that he wants to wipe Israel off the map. I think this inflamatory rhetoric is designed to cover his ass domestically by unifying the people against a common enemy (The US and Israel) and also keeping him in the good graces of the mullahs.
That said, I don’t think he wants open conflict with either the US or Israel. To do so is a death sentence and he knows it. So he’s basically playing both sides the best he can. I’m pretty confident in this assessment, but the fact remains that when a man tells you he wants to kill you, you take him at his word. I’d hate to be wrong and see WW3 around the corner.
All this said, I think it’s a shitty position. In a vacuum I don’t see how we have the right to tell other countries that they can’t have nuclear energy. Hell, In a vacuum I don’t see how we have the right to tell another sovereign nation that they can’t have nuclear weapons. But we aren’t in a vacuum. So far as I see it, this is a game where both ourselves and our allies ave been threatened by a regime that is likely bluffing. But whether or not they are bluffing is moot. I’m going to take them at their word.
mike
[quote]lixy wrote:
The official 9/11 story has holes the size of Jupiter’s craters. Shit, it’s not far fetched to believe the intelligence community knew it was going to happen, and some people in the government deliberately let it happen. But you cross the line when you pretend Israel or some other government was behind it.
The story is plain (plane?) and simple. For whatever reasons, a bunch of angry Arabs decided to blow up civilian targets. Get over it! Your theories are only distracting from the important issues; namely, criminal wars and human rights violations.[/quote]
You contradicted yourself. The official story is exactly as you described 9/11 in the second paragraph.
Mikeyali;
“Study Claims Iraq’s ‘Excess’ Death Toll Has Reached 655,000”
SO what is worse here? Threatening to use a weapon which they do not have and wont have for many years (which is pretty much just pandering, but i digress), OR using the guise of anti-terrorism to justify military attacks against civilians?
Enemy of our enemy? So therefore, let them do what ever the fuck they want and dont even criticize? I mean c’mon man.
I lost you here. Mercs = mercenaries? If so, you are out of your mind. How can you justify contractors making something like 5 times more money than the actual soldiers? Same government is writing the check for that. Are their lives worth more? So much for actually supporting the troops…
What I am saying is that we do not go into a region for the good of the people there, or to promote democracy or any of that other horse shit. Oil, and a strong lobby make for mid east intervention by the US
Do they let the Jews go through the DUI stops and the Muslims get harassed/denied? I think you glossed over the issue here. Its not about needing ID, its about a Jewish ID, Catholic ID, White ID, Black ID… that wouldnt fly in a real democracy or anything resembling one.
What I am talking about with moving within your boarders is not about having a drivers license. Did you get a DUI or something? The Muslims are denied access. even when the “play ball”.
You did not get you license revoked because you are catholic, atheist, what ever. You got it taken away because you drove wasted. There is a difference.
I am not saying Israel is an enemy. I AM saying that they fuck us over when they can, as all countries would do given the chance. Its the friggin song and dance about how they are the light in the darkness or some such shit. We do not need them and we are bending over backwards for Israel for no good reason.
[quote]UB07 wrote:
I am not saying Israel is an enemy. I AM saying that they fuck us over when they can, as all countries would do given the chance. Its the friggin song and dance about how they are the light in the darkness or some such shit. We do not need them and we are bending over backwards for Israel for no good reason.
[/quote]
Ill just attack this little part for you. Actually we do need Israel. Israel is already wanting to go after Iran when we decide to lay waist to them you will see Israel sending in massive amounts of help. We know this and that is why they will always be are allies.
[quote]John S. wrote:
Israel is already wanting to go after Iran when we decide to lay waist to them you will see Israel sending in massive amounts of help. [/quote]
I do not believe Israel would invade Iran in a million years. It’ll tag along if the US decides to go there, as they won’t have a choice, but to say that they’ll risk alienating their neighbors and destabilizing the region even further is nothing short of insane.
Look at the polls for Heaven’s sake! Unlike Bush and his cronies - and like it or not - the Israeli government is still representative of the will of its people. Two thirds of Israelis oppose their country attacking Iran. On the other hand, they welcome the US doing the heavy lifting and taking the heat.
There is a very good reason more Americans support an attack on Iran than Israelis (proportionally speaking). When Tehran is bombed, the worse that could happen to a guy in Iowa is fork a few cents over to the gas station. Israelis would have to deal with bombs, missiles and the like.
And no, Israel doesn’t have, nor did it ever have America’s best interest at heart. All the US gained from that mass of vetoes, money and weapons, are enemies and a loss of credibility.
Israelis influence American policy. Americans do not influence Israeli policy.
We aren’t attacking Iran. Any candidate proposing such a thing should be completely ignored. We’re already borrowing our asses off to pay for Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s the last friggen thing we need to be doing.
I briefly scanned through an article the other day about a US Military higher-up criticizing Nato’s efforts in southern Afghanistan. And, I’ve seen articles about the US trying to get more nations to send troops into Afghanistan. Nato, and the countries involved, should tell us to blow it out our ass. I’m sorry, but when we decided to send 100,000+ into Iraq, before finishing up in Afghanistan, we lost any right to be critical.
In short, our plate isn’t just full, it’s overrunning. There are plenty of countries much, much, much closer to Iran, than the US. Let them worry about a nuclear armed Iran. Iran knows all too well what would happen if it allowed one of their nuclear devices to be smuggled into our country. Or, into Israel, for that matter. We have the ability to win any such exchange.
??? Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran… He came pretty close.
[quote]John S. wrote:
UB07 wrote:
I am not saying Israel is an enemy. I AM saying that they fuck us over when they can, as all countries would do given the chance. Its the friggin song and dance about how they are the light in the darkness or some such shit. We do not need them and we are bending over backwards for Israel for no good reason.
Ill just attack this little part for you. Actually we do need Israel. Israel is already wanting to go after Iran when we decide to lay waist to them you will see Israel sending in massive amounts of help. We know this and that is why they will always be are allies.[/quote]
When you say “We”, you mean anyone who is interested following in Israel’s agenda. We, the people, dont want another war. We cant afford the blood or treasure. Israel wants to destroy its neighbors. Let them do as they please, but this time Americans wont be spilling their blood in the name of the apartheid state of israel.
So, if we fight ANOTHER war for them, how is this an asset? Israel is a MAJOR liability for the US. Without powerful lobbies, we would have severed the ties already.