Why is Being Right Wing so Frowned Upon?

blacks do not place as much value on education as whites. Studies show that there are fewer books and less time reading in black homes than white and asian homes as well as more time watching television even among black parents with college educations.

There is no racial IQ difference, I hope you were joking. The problem is a mixture of parenting, schools and socioeconomics that are all interrelated. Bad economic area, such as new orleans, camden new jersey, parents have less access to living wage jobs, then work more and more unconventional hours, thus less time parenting and teaching children. The economic situation leads to less taxes to support the public school system in the area, which leads to larger class sizes and lower teacher pay and less resources for students. Vicious cycle continues. This is the education gap, and it needs to be solved by innovative dynamic learning methods that allow teachers and community leaders to collude with parents. Education is a societal thing. I do agree that Europe has a better Public school system, primarily because they spend MORE TIME in school. Our flawed school year system was designed based off an agrarian culture where children were needed in the summer months to work the fields. School needs to be year round…However the US is without a doubt the pinnacle of higher education and universities. Forbes and the Economist both had studies done of top ranked universities, the rest of the world doesnt add up. This leads to an influx of foreigners, european and asian to our universities for undergrad and doctoral programs and they are better prepared for it than the typical US undergrad.

I graduated from the University of Pittsburgh which is one of the premier med schools in the country and has several other top tier departments. A block away is Carnegie Mellon University which is one of the best engineering and liberal studies schoools in teh world. The amount of asians and indians here is astounding.

Quite serious.

Why are the socioeconomics bad? What causes the bad socioeconomics?

Europe is also a lot more European. The same “education gap” is found amongst non-European students in European schools, btw. For example, the Turks do poorly in school in Germany as do North Africans in France. Amazing how the same pattern seems to crop up.

I would like to see this IQ data. Furthermore even if relevant, IQ is not a large facet of learning ability.

Bad Socioeconomics is a vicious loop. One again, my town Pittsburgh was a good example in the 1970-80’s. Lots of people working factory jobs, jobs go away, people are not retrained, tax base sinks, crime poverty and education suffer. Pittsburgh fared better than other rust belt cities, such as Akron, but was and is a shadow of its former self. The city did take strides to attract diversified industries, healthcare and financials and is poised to become a great small american city. Detroit is a more prominant example. Im not blaming industry or anyone except a set of occurrances that usually correlate. Have you gone to a city school? If so you would realize the oppurtunity in and out of the classroom is disadvantageous to breaking the cycle of poverty. I believe this is why the formerly impoverished Andrew Carnegie set up his library system in the Pittsburgh region because he saw the advantages education (proper) can pose to those who are disadvantaged.

I will slightly agree on your last point on the means of diversity. However, many of those who you attribute the gap to are first generation immigrants, especially the turks in germany, holland and west europe. Here we have generational families descended from our forefathers and the slaves of our forefathers still with inequality in education.

PRCal, you make good posts, but as for this:

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
As near as I can tell, blacks place a lot of value on education just like whites/asians.[/quote]

Say what? What criteria did you use to reach that determination?

[quote]forensic91 wrote:
Now I don’t wanna turn this into a heated political debate.

At school I have a politics class and I seem to be the only one who seems to be more to the right. If I say anything that is right winged everyone else in the class seems to think i’m “mean and heartless” and don’t “care about the poor.” which is simply not true. The teacher tries to remain neutral but it is obvious he is more left wing. It seems like everyone in my entourage is left wing and it seems like any slight right wing ideology is “uncaring” and frowned upon. [/quote]

Political Bottlenecking

Not having read the other replies, I could be repeating someone but here is my answer. Its because faggy liberals run colleges and do their damndest to brainwash dumb kids in english, history and other related(see worthless) classes.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]spyoptic wrote:
Before the signing of the Civil Rights act, being a Republican meant your views were more liberal than not. After it was signed, all the southern states shifted to the republican party, since it was a Democratic president that signed the bill. Now the Republican party is usually made up of people that have traditional ideals…[/quote]

Isn’t that conservatism? Traditional ideals? According to this thread conservatism was, what, libertarianism? Pro-gay marriage, pro-choice, secular, mother and wife working, conservatism was the norm? I don’t buy this claim. And heck, abolition was strongly motivated by religious beliefs. Maybe for liberaltarians in the GoP, but not conservatives.

I think libertarians shouldn’t worry so much about us, and worry more about themselves.
[/quote]

did I get republicans and conservatives mixed up? my bad.

[quote]666Rich wrote:
There is no racial IQ difference, I hope you were joking.[/quote]

How do you know?

[quote]forensic91 wrote:
Now I don’t wanna turn this into a heated political debate.

At school I have a politics class and I seem to be the only one who seems to be more to the right. If I say anything that is right winged everyone else in the class seems to think i’m “mean and heartless” and don’t “care about the poor.” which is simply not true. The teacher tries to remain neutral but it is obvious he is more left wing. It seems like everyone in my entourage is left wing and it seems like any slight right wing ideology is “uncaring” and frowned upon. [/quote]

Perhaps they are just not persuaded by your arguments and instead of addressing them seriously, you prefer to lump them all into the ‘left wing’ category so that you can dismiss their objections.

Of course, I could be totally wrong here, it’s just an idea.

[quote]Meatros wrote:
Perhaps they are just not persuaded by your arguments and instead of addressing them seriously, you prefer to lump them all into the ‘left wing’ category so that you can dismiss their objections.

Of course, I could be totally wrong here, it’s just an idea.[/quote]

Rather…unlikely.

Young people are liberals because they are idiots.

to play devils advocate that could rest on your definition of liberal. Who is a liberal? Are we talking liberalism as it was denoted to be the rights of man and invididualism and liberty? Are we talking impassioned idealists that are so yet naive in the ways of the world?

Semantics does carry a lot of weight when one wishes to define an issue.

[quote]SSVegeta wrote:

This is profound, and well thought out. Full of win.
[/quote]

Im full of win!

[quote]SSVegeta wrote:

This is profound, and well thought out. Full of win.
[/quote]

Im full of win!

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

[quote]Meatros wrote:
Perhaps they are just not persuaded by your arguments and instead of addressing them seriously, you prefer to lump them all into the ‘left wing’ category so that you can dismiss their objections.

Of course, I could be totally wrong here, it’s just an idea.[/quote]

Rather…unlikely.

Young people are liberals because they are idiots. [/quote]

What a compelling argument.

[quote]666Rich wrote:
to play devils advocate that could rest on your definition of liberal. Who is a liberal? Are we talking liberalism as it was denoted to be the rights of man and invididualism and liberty? Are we talking impassioned idealists that are so yet naive in the ways of the world?

Semantics does carry a lot of weight when one wishes to define an issue.[/quote]

“Liberal” generally connotates someone who doesn’t agree with the person making the assertions. “Conservative” also has a similar status.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

[quote]Meatros wrote:
Perhaps they are just not persuaded by your arguments and instead of addressing them seriously, you prefer to lump them all into the ‘left wing’ category so that you can dismiss their objections.

Of course, I could be totally wrong here, it’s just an idea.[/quote]

Rather…unlikely.

Young people are liberals because they are idiots. [/quote]

That’s a little harsh, if you think about it what else do they know? Young people are idealistic. If someone says “all Americans deserve free health care” A younger person is going to respond positively to that because it’s a very good notion albeit foolish. They might not be thinking that nothing is actually free and that someone is going to work to pay for the “free” health care, it’s just not going to be them. Someone must always be working and producing for any of the give-away programs to work, again, it’s just not them, so it’s not real to them.

Then of course you have just about every university feeding these kids their liberal philosophy from the time they enter the campus to the time they earn their diploma. It really takes a good 5-8 years of living, working, actually paying taxes, and thinking like an adult (marriage, kids etc.) before a young person, by now in his late 20’s to early 30’s opens his eyes. That’s one reason I’m done debating college kids on this site, or anywhere else. They are full of ideas, most of which they’ve been spoon fed by their liberal profs, and they have zip for experience. It’s far too frustrating trying to explain to them what the real world is like.

On the other hand there are “adult liberals” those who have in fact worked, paid taxes lived a while and still think that Obama is the chosen one. However, if you break down the liberal demographic there are not nearly as many of these as you might think.

But over all I wouldn’t call them idiots. The ones that I’ve debated with are articulate and obviously bright, they just don’t quite understand the real world as they’ve not yet been involved in it in a meaningful way.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
That’s a little harsh, if you think about it what else do they know? Young people are idealistic. If someone says “all Americans deserve free health care” A younger person is going to respond positively to that because it’s a very good notion albeit foolish. [/quote]

I think that’s a bit simplistic and while not as bad as the prior poster, it still suffers from being uncharitable to the person you would disagree with.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
They might not be thinking that nothing is actually free and that someone is going to work to pay for the “free” health care, it’s just not going to be them. [/quote]

So you believe that no liberal has a job or do you believe that liberals don’t realize they pay taxes?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Someone must always be working and producing for any of the give-away programs to work, again, it’s just not them, so it’s not real to them.[/quote]

So liberals don’t work?

I’m curious, do you believe the majority of people who do not work are simply lazy and seeking to glom off the system or do you believe that, occasionally, people experience hardship and need some help (otherwise they will be in the streets)?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Then of course you have just about every university feeding these kids their liberal philosophy from the time they enter the campus to the time they earn their diploma. It really takes a good 5-8 years of living, working, actually paying taxes, and thinking like an adult (marriage, kids etc.) [/quote]

Again, this is uncharitable and a ridiculous strawman. Education = bad, under your view, or all universities solely promote liberal agendas.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
before a young person, by now in his late 20’s to early 30’s opens his eyes. That’s one reason I’m done debating college kids on this site, or anywhere else. [/quote]

Ah, so debate is wrong. We should all just tow the line?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
They are full of ideas, most of which they’ve been spoon fed by their liberal profs, and they have zip for experience. It’s far too frustrating trying to explain to them what the real world is like.[/quote]

In otherwords, it’s difficult trying to actually reason to your conclusions - so why try?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
On the other hand there are “adult liberals” those who have in fact worked, paid taxes lived a while and still think that Obama is the chosen one. However, if you break down the liberal demographic there are not nearly as many of these as you might think. [/quote]

Do you have any cites for this, or do you make it up on the spot?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
But over all I wouldn’t call them idiots. The ones that I’ve debated with are articulate and obviously bright, they just don’t quite understand the real world as they’ve not yet been involved in it in a meaningful way.[/quote]

No, you wouldn’t call them idiots, but you would consider them brainwashed, unemployed, and not living in the real world. This may not be as harsh as calling them idiots, but it’s demonizing the opposition - and a rejection of trying to rationally assess the ideas present, which is intellectual laziness.

I have to wonder where some of you people learned critical thinking (or if you actually did). The strawmen here are embarrassing and the closeminded, fist pumping, cartooning of the opposition should make you blush.

I say this and I’m not even a liberal.

[quote]JHollywood wrote:
Liberals are taught to think that anyone on the right is evil and stupid, because it’s a lot safer than engaging in informed and level-headed debate/discussions over principles.

I’m basically a conservative because 1) I believe that government should be limited, and have less control in the lives of citizens 2) I do not believe that people are basically good, just misunderstood 3) the world is pretty sick and messed up, but there are things more important than being nice, and those things are worth fighting for.

I believe in private charity - not in government handouts.

I believe the American government should protect its people first - not treat it as just another country in the U.N. roster.

I believe in free speech - not the right to be free from being offended.

I believe all men are created equal - not that it’s the government’s place to control success in order to keep everyone at an equal level.

I believe in hard work and responsibility - not in the vague term “social justice” or “fairness.” After all, what is your “fair share” of what someone else has worked for?

These are tricky areas for debate with liberals, or anyone for that matter. Talk about principles and cause-and-effect instead of resorting to calling names.

Of course, anyone who declares these kind of ideas is just “parroting” some talkshow “nutjob” though, so what do I know…[/quote]

funny, i kinda believe the same things but have never considered myself either liberal or conservative, dont these views just make sense.
“democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others” - churchil

[quote]Meatros wrote:
ZEB wrote:

No, you wouldn’t call them idiots, but you would consider them brainwashed, unemployed, and not living in the real world. This may not be as harsh as calling them idiots, but it’s demonizing the opposition[/quote]

You didn’t like that? Oh darn, I’ll have to try to keep trying to phrase things to please you. Wait, no I guess I won’t. There are all sorts of liberals, I described one of them EXACTLY, I wouldn’t expect you to like it, it’s true none the less.

What it’s called is not wasting my time with those who have not lived and experienced enough of life to fully understand the implications of what they’re trying to learn in college. And since I’ve been there and done that, I like to think that making the same mistake again wouldn’t be very smart. How long would you want to debate someone who was trying to tell you what the moon looked like and has never been there, seen a picture or even heard a good description? Lazy? No, more like smart.

[quote]

I say this and I’m not even a liberal. [/quote]

No, but you’re most likely in the age group that I described in my post above.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You didn’t like that? Oh darn, I’ll have to try to keep trying to phrase things to please you. Wait, no I guess I won’t. There are all sorts of liberals, I described one of them EXACTLY, I wouldn’t expect you to like it, it’s true none the less.
[/quote]

I don’t care whether you please me or not - I was pointing out you were being irrational. You may not care whether you are irrational or not, at your intellectual peril. You are now back peddling, now you are saying that there are ‘all sorts of liberals’.

But go ahead, comment about my motives, as though they were relevant to your irrationality. You mentioned you debated a lot, right? My guess is you were shown to be wrong and irrational a lot.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
What it’s called is not wasting my time with those who have not lived and experienced enough of life to fully understand the implications of what they’re trying to learn in college. And since I’ve been there and done that, I like to think that making the same mistake again wouldn’t be very smart. How long would you want to debate someone who was trying to tell you what the moon looked like and has never been there, seen a picture or even heard a good description? Lazy? No, more like smart.
[/quote]

No, it’s called lazy. You are making general assumptions about a group of people (which you’ve now even more narrowly defined). You are also trying to pass yourself off as an authority.

It sounds like you were often shown you were wrong and you had to resort to demonizing your opposition. Now you don’t bother because it’s too taxing on. Color me underwhelmed.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
No, but you’re most likely in the age group that I described in my post above.
[/quote]

You say this because you think it’s easier to justify your irrationality. The fact is, I am not in that age group. I’m in my 30’s, have a stable job, a wife, and a child.

Don’t let being wrong get in the way of making sweeping generalizations though. Who knows, one of these days you might be right!