Why is Being Right Wing so Frowned Upon?

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]Gregus wrote:
A free market is still the best idea. The crash was NOT due to a free market. It was due to the interfering with it and messing with its natural forces. Even now it’s being stifled and suppressed by the powers that be.[/quote]

This is wrong and has been debunked here and elsewhere before. Not that you’ll care.
[/quote]

Who has done the debunking?

Certainly not you because you seem to shy away from the specifics and conclude that somehow Wall Street greed must have caused it.

You have to understand that just beause you really, really believe something it is not necessarily true nor does it necessarily convince other people.

At least us libertarians have a firm grasp of economics whereas socialists seem to confuse it with a form of theology.

A. Nobody in this thread has state their reverance for the aformentioned pundits. In recalling their names and attributing it to the OP or people that support conservative ideology, you have really just participated in the same ploy that most sophist pseudo intellectuals do. Did you not even read the thread? Your sarcasm does not help your notion of civil debate either.

I believe most people constantly assert that they are right and everyone else is wrong, left and right both. Thats part of the problem. Even if one disagrees, they should listen. That is part of the problem with the OP’s class, and perhaps himself even. We dont know. As far as your last few sentances, I suggest you take your own advice from previous experience talking to you. Cheers.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote: And yes tme, debating a lib is more often than not a less than enjoyable experience. This, IMHO, is due to the emotionaly driven debate of the left vs a conservative or a libertarian whose debate is more often than not driven by philosiphy or principle.
[/quote]

Hmmm, really? When your entire message depends upon an appeal to people’s emotions? 'Cause Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. are such scholars and emotional robots, right?

To the OP, one of the reasons you are not taken seriously is this persecution narrative. “Oh, woe is me! It’s so HARD to be a conservative!” It’s funny to me that many of these people will tell you to sack up, work harder, etc., but they can’t take a little criticism.

Another reason is that many of you constantly invoke your mythology in asserting that you are totally correct about everything and that everyone else is totally wrong. Until you admit that maybe, other viewpoints might contain at least a kernel of truth, in other words, until you become more than a somewhat amusing religious sect, people will not take you seriously. I’m not even trying to start anything here, I’m being honest.[/quote]

I’m not familiar with that occurrence. I was talking about the massive market failure last year (contrary to what libertarians say, “market failure” is not an oxymoron).

When you’re dealing with institutions that large, you violate your principles with either route you take.

[quote]orion wrote:Who has done the debunking?

Certainly not you because you seem to shy away from the specifics and conclude that somehow Wall Street greed must have caused it.

You have to understand that just beause you really, really believe something it is not necessarily true nor does it necessarily convince other people.

At least us libertarians have a firm grasp of economics whereas socialists seem to confuse it with a form of theology.[/quote]

No, actually I debunked it a few weeks ago when thunderbolt tried to make the same ridiculous claims as you. Just because you generally refrain from reading things you don’t like to hear doesn’t mean they’re not true. Most babies learn fairly quickly the keys are really still there even though they can’t see them. That the libertarians have not is not my fault.

[quote]hedo wrote:
Don’t expect to much from the liberals in your class. When most folks grow up and have to provide for themselves they embrace conservatism and acceptance of responsibility.[/quote]

Cradle-to-grave nanny state is working hard to ensure that won’t happen.

It gets worse with each generation and this up-coming flock will be absolutely terrible.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

[quote]hedo wrote:
Don’t expect to much from the liberals in your class. When most folks grow up and have to provide for themselves they embrace conservatism and acceptance of responsibility.[/quote]

Cradle-to-grave nanny state is working hard to ensure that won’t happen.

It gets worse with each generation and this up-coming flock will be absolutely terrible. [/quote]

Actually this Generation is going to have a front row seat in watching everything blow up in their face.

I can tell you that people are beginning to see it isn’t the free market that failed it is the government. Trust me in the next 4 years you will see a massive change in the youth. They are beginning to see that these entitlements can’t be paid for.

[quote]666Rich wrote:
A. Nobody in this thread has state their reverance for the aformentioned pundits. In recalling their names and attributing it to the OP or people that support conservative ideology, you have really just participated in the same ploy that most sophist pseudo intellectuals do. Did you not even read the thread? Your sarcasm does not help your notion of civil debate either.

I believe most people constantly assert that they are right and everyone else is wrong, left and right both. Thats part of the problem. Even if one disagrees, they should listen. That is part of the problem with the OP’s class, and perhaps himself even. We dont know. As far as your last few sentances, I suggest you take your own advice from previous experience talking to you. Cheers.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote: And yes tme, debating a lib is more often than not a less than enjoyable experience. This, IMHO, is due to the emotionaly driven debate of the left vs a conservative or a libertarian whose debate is more often than not driven by philosiphy or principle.
[/quote]

Hmmm, really? When your entire message depends upon an appeal to people’s emotions? 'Cause Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. are such scholars and emotional robots, right?

To the OP, one of the reasons you are not taken seriously is this persecution narrative. “Oh, woe is me! It’s so HARD to be a conservative!” It’s funny to me that many of these people will tell you to sack up, work harder, etc., but they can’t take a little criticism.

Another reason is that many of you constantly invoke your mythology in asserting that you are totally correct about everything and that everyone else is totally wrong. Until you admit that maybe, other viewpoints might contain at least a kernel of truth, in other words, until you become more than a somewhat amusing religious sect, people will not take you seriously. I’m not even trying to start anything here, I’m being honest.[/quote]
[/quote]

Well put.

I might add that this particular poster never bothers to explain his position of define his own categories for the rest of the PWI forum to see. No, his entire presence here is one of pointless sarcastic trollery.

We do know that he likes Obama and the USSR. I take that to mean that he likes closeted-gay males, empire, war, gulags, demagoguery, and the continuation of the “Invade/Invite/In hoc” policies of GWB that have seen so much continuity in the Obama presidency.

Maybe he doesn’t, though. Who knows? He only knows snarky contrarianism, but not how to make or defend a point.

Hehe, neither one is true, but please continue.

I take it you have forsaken reading entirely then.

Blah blah blah, I don’t like what he says, blah blah blah.

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

[quote]hedo wrote:
Don’t expect to much from the liberals in your class. When most folks grow up and have to provide for themselves they embrace conservatism and acceptance of responsibility.[/quote]

Cradle-to-grave nanny state is working hard to ensure that won’t happen.

It gets worse with each generation and this up-coming flock will be absolutely terrible. [/quote]

Actually this Generation is going to have a front row seat in watching everything blow up in their face.

I can tell you that people are beginning to see it isn’t the free market that failed it is the government. Trust me in the next 4 years you will see a massive change in the youth. They are beginning to see that these entitlements can’t be paid for.[/quote]

No they are’t and won’t, my friend. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that what you see on the internet corresponds to real world opinions and trends. Most people in the real world are still firmly stuck in the dark ages. They get their news from the pleasant, mixed-race news anchors on the tube, in between 30-second prescription drug commercials. As for young people, they don’t give a shit about news to begin with, unless it’s disseminated by “hip” counter-culture sources. The latter is practically synonymous with “left-wing”, of course.

Journalism is the most disgusting profession. The people involved with it are utter parasites who are far removed from the chain of productive labor which drives society. Moreover, listening to “the news” encourages masses of asses to develop opinions on matters which they are wholly unqualified to speak of. Monarchs in the old times were absolutely right to censor the presses. The common rabble ought to stick to their own affairs, which they are hardly capable of managing in the first place.

Democracy too, is repugnant. Under that system, miserable cretins are given equal voice and representation as productive citizens, to the great detriment of the nation.

Putting your hopes in the plebes - or the youth - is a surefire way to end up disappointed.

Most people in this country still don’t know who Ron Paul is. And they aren’t going to wake up tomorrow and find out. In an age of media over-saturation, it is very difficult to get noticed, harder still to be remembered.

It’s nice to see people like RP and Glenn Beck getting air time and mentioning the gold standard on major networks, but you have to keep in mind that media coverage doesn’t mean as much now as it did in 1996, or 1975. Practically anyone can get on TV now. That fact, rather than any ideological breakthrough achieved by the right, is responsible for the increased airtime given to such political dissidents.

Will this generation have front row seats to the second fall of Rome? I certainly believe it so. But will living through the disaster make them wise? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Our leaders wouldn’t have cause to push us over the brink, otherwise.

Here is how you break it down:

What is the consequence of disasters? Emotions are heightened. Negative emotions, that is.

Now consider that capitalism requires some degree of intellect to be understood and appreciated. It is not intuitive for most people. Even under the best of circumstances, most people on the street would be hard pressed to understand the basics of micro-economics in a laissez faire society.

So what happens when times are bad? As stated above, you get fear, panic, general malaise, as we’ve witness throughout this past year and will probably continue into the next. Not an environment conducive to fostering the intellect required to rediscover capitalistic virtues.

Another political maxim is that people will always vote for their own self interest over high minded principles, particularly in a democratic system (i.e. mob rule).

When things go downhill in this country we’ll get bona fide socialism, not capitalism. The latter system will, in fact, be blamed for the downfall, as it always is.

Look at public sentiment in Europe: People over there are far more educated than in the US, yet liberal and anti-capitalist to the core. And so are American liberals in the Northeast, where I reside. If the only people who support capitalism are uneducated, then that ideology is in trouble. Ivy Leaguers set governmental policy, not rural farmers from the Midwest.

Young people long to rebel but they inevitably do so in the stupidest ways imaginable. They are easy targets for manipulation by the establishment. When the fall comes they will be like sheep led to slaughter.

The lack of hermeneutic self-reflection on both sides is striking. It’s fun to see right wing people being upset at being put into wrongful stereotypes by liberals, who are themselves describing all liberals with the use of the very same methods, and vice versa.

[quote]spyoptic wrote:
Before the signing of the Civil Rights act, being a Republican meant your views were more liberal than not. After it was signed, all the southern states shifted to the republican party, since it was a Democratic president that signed the bill. Now the Republican party is usually made up of people that have traditional ideals; believe in God, the woman stays in the kitchen, you can beat your kid, marijuana is evil, homosexuality is evil, abortion is bad, everyone should own a gun… not saying all or even the majority of Republicans think this way, but never the less, the stereotype remains.

So in essense, to believe any of those things in today’s world is a little backwards, it was okay to believe all of this 100 years ago but its time for extreme conservatives to let go of the old way of things. People view Republicans as people who agree with one or more of the statements above.[/quote]

There are several main streams of Republicanism:
Social republicans like you mentioned, think Palin, Swaggart, Phillis Schaffely, Rush, That whiny db on Fox…
Rockefeller Republicans: or fiscal conservatives: Bush the first, Dewey, Taft, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, jeffords
NeoCons: (formerly anti-communists) Nixon, Bush the first, Reagan, Chaney, McCarthy…

Takes someone who can merge 2 or more support groups to win…
Nixon, the NeoCon built the silent majority support from the social conservatives.
Reagan; Necon, gave away the farm to the old money…
Bush the first: Rockefeller, who could pass for an Neocon…
Bush the second: Social Republican who filled his cabinet with either Neocons or old money.

But the fiscal conservatives are fleeing the party as they have been overwhelmed by the radical right which seeks to impose a Religious Theocracy.

[quote]Valor wrote:
jj-dude:

A liberal is someone who believes in limited, representational government and equality of all before the law.

What? WHAT? Thats the DUMBEST thing I’ve read in at least a year. You’ve GOT to be kidding me? Who supports affirmative action? Liberals…is that equality? No fucking way. Who supports UHC… liberals… is that limited government? WTF…dude, what color are thye skys in your world?[/quote]

There are different schools of Liberals…
I myself am rather radical. Think Jefferson, Paine, Franklin.

Jeffersonian Liberals: Jefferson, Rights of Man, basically one’s rights end when they harm another…
New Deal Democrats: FDR, Woody Guthry, Clinton and etc. Government and commerce’s job is to serve the People…
Great Society: LBJ, Carter. Governments role is to further the social good…

Too many people swallow their parties straw man about what the other is like…

I’ll think for myself thank you, but if you prefer to swallow party lines, that’s your right…

Funny, is that I relate to fiscal conservative, Jeffersonian liberals, New dealers, and Neocons (if the power is only used for “good”, not to increase someone’s share price)…

I have found people of all stripes self identify as independents, and even Libertarians…

But experience with self described Libertarian’s like LaRouche, Racist groups, and Theocrats precludes that party from consideration…

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Blah blah blah, I don’t like what he says, blah blah blah.
[/quote]

Case in point? lol

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Blah blah blah, I don’t like what he says, blah blah blah.
[/quote]

Case in point? lol
[/quote]

lolmmunism!

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

No they are’t and won’t, my friend. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that what you see on the internet corresponds to real world opinions and trends. Most people in the real world are still firmly stuck in the dark ages. They get their news from the pleasant, mixed-race news anchors on the tube, in between 30-second prescription drug commercials. As for young people, they don’t give a shit about news to begin with, unless it’s disseminated by “hip” counter-culture sources. The latter is practically synonymous with “left-wing”, of course.

Journalism is the most disgusting profession. The people involved with it are utter parasites who are far removed from the chain of productive labor which drives society. Moreover, listening to “the news” encourages masses of asses to develop opinions on matters which they are wholly unqualified to speak of. Monarchs in the old times were absolutely right to censor the presses. The common rabble ought to stick to their own affairs, which they are hardly capable of managing in the first place.

Democracy too, is repugnant. Under that system, miserable cretins are given equal voice and representation as productive citizens, to the great detriment of the nation.

Putting your hopes in the plebes - or the youth - is a surefire way to end up disappointed.

Most people in this country still don’t know who Ron Paul is. And they aren’t going to wake up tomorrow and find out. In an age of media over-saturation, it is very difficult to get noticed, harder still to be remembered.

It’s nice to see people like RP and Glenn Beck getting air time and mentioning the gold standard on major networks, but you have to keep in mind that media coverage doesn’t mean as much now as it did in 1996, or 1975. Practically anyone can get on TV now. That fact, rather than any ideological breakthrough achieved by the right, is responsible for the increased airtime given to such political dissidents.

Will this generation have front row seats to the second fall of Rome? I certainly believe it so. But will living through the disaster make them wise? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Our leaders wouldn’t have cause to push us over the brink, otherwise.

Here is how you break it down:

What is the consequence of disasters? Emotions are heightened. Negative emotions, that is.

Now consider that capitalism requires some degree of intellect to be understood and appreciated. It is not intuitive for most people. Even under the best of circumstances, most people on the street would be hard pressed to understand the basics of micro-economics in a laissez faire society.

So what happens when times are bad? As stated above, you get fear, panic, general malaise, as we’ve witness throughout this past year and will probably continue into the next. Not an environment conducive to fostering the intellect required to rediscover capitalistic virtues.

Another political maxim is that people will always vote for their own self interest over high minded principles, particularly in a democratic system (i.e. mob rule).

When things go downhill in this country we’ll get bona fide socialism, not capitalism. The latter system will, in fact, be blamed for the downfall, as it always is.

Look at public sentiment in Europe: People over there are far more educated than in the US, yet liberal and anti-capitalist to the core. And so are American liberals in the Northeast, where I reside. If the only people who support capitalism are uneducated, then that ideology is in trouble. Ivy Leaguers set governmental policy, not rural farmers from the Midwest.

Young people long to rebel but they inevitably do so in the stupidest ways imaginable. They are easy targets for manipulation by the establishment. When the fall comes they will be like sheep led to slaughter.[/quote]

First off I would like to say I do not believe the people in Europe have better education. Having had a few discussions on WW2 with people over in that area I can tell you that I am shocked at just how wrong they where.

We are going to watch all these entitlements fall apart. When social security really begins to die in 2015 or so, you really think this Generation of ME is going to just sit back and watch all that money taken out. Once they get affected by this trust me they will turn around. You talk about eliminating taxes and they will listen. And with the currency crisis that’s about to happen, there is no way to blame that on anyone but the Government.

Give us some time, we are coming around.

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

No they are’t and won’t, my friend. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that what you see on the internet corresponds to real world opinions and trends. Most people in the real world are still firmly stuck in the dark ages. They get their news from the pleasant, mixed-race news anchors on the tube, in between 30-second prescription drug commercials. As for young people, they don’t give a shit about news to begin with, unless it’s disseminated by “hip” counter-culture sources. The latter is practically synonymous with “left-wing”, of course.

Journalism is the most disgusting profession. The people involved with it are utter parasites who are far removed from the chain of productive labor which drives society. Moreover, listening to “the news” encourages masses of asses to develop opinions on matters which they are wholly unqualified to speak of. Monarchs in the old times were absolutely right to censor the presses. The common rabble ought to stick to their own affairs, which they are hardly capable of managing in the first place.

Democracy too, is repugnant. Under that system, miserable cretins are given equal voice and representation as productive citizens, to the great detriment of the nation.

Putting your hopes in the plebes - or the youth - is a surefire way to end up disappointed.

Most people in this country still don’t know who Ron Paul is. And they aren’t going to wake up tomorrow and find out. In an age of media over-saturation, it is very difficult to get noticed, harder still to be remembered.

It’s nice to see people like RP and Glenn Beck getting air time and mentioning the gold standard on major networks, but you have to keep in mind that media coverage doesn’t mean as much now as it did in 1996, or 1975. Practically anyone can get on TV now. That fact, rather than any ideological breakthrough achieved by the right, is responsible for the increased airtime given to such political dissidents.

Will this generation have front row seats to the second fall of Rome? I certainly believe it so. But will living through the disaster make them wise? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Our leaders wouldn’t have cause to push us over the brink, otherwise.

Here is how you break it down:

What is the consequence of disasters? Emotions are heightened. Negative emotions, that is.

Now consider that capitalism requires some degree of intellect to be understood and appreciated. It is not intuitive for most people. Even under the best of circumstances, most people on the street would be hard pressed to understand the basics of micro-economics in a laissez faire society.

So what happens when times are bad? As stated above, you get fear, panic, general malaise, as we’ve witness throughout this past year and will probably continue into the next. Not an environment conducive to fostering the intellect required to rediscover capitalistic virtues.

Another political maxim is that people will always vote for their own self interest over high minded principles, particularly in a democratic system (i.e. mob rule).

When things go downhill in this country we’ll get bona fide socialism, not capitalism. The latter system will, in fact, be blamed for the downfall, as it always is.

Look at public sentiment in Europe: People over there are far more educated than in the US, yet liberal and anti-capitalist to the core. And so are American liberals in the Northeast, where I reside. If the only people who support capitalism are uneducated, then that ideology is in trouble. Ivy Leaguers set governmental policy, not rural farmers from the Midwest.

Young people long to rebel but they inevitably do so in the stupidest ways imaginable. They are easy targets for manipulation by the establishment. When the fall comes they will be like sheep led to slaughter.[/quote]

First off I would like to say I do not believe the people in Europe have better education. Having had a few discussions on WW2 with people over in that area I can tell you that I am shocked at just how wrong they where.

We are going to watch all these entitlements fall apart. When social security really begins to die in 2015 or so, you really think this Generation of ME is going to just sit back and watch all that money taken out. Once they get affected by this trust me they will turn around. You talk about eliminating taxes and they will listen. And with the currency crisis that’s about to happen, there is no way to blame that on anyone but the Government.

Give us some time, we are coming around.[/quote]
More people have a decent education in Europe due to better public schools. That being said there are obviously private schools in the US that are equally good as the private ones in Europe. If you have a family with money it’s really not such a bad deal in the US, but if you don’t it is. It’s a great way to keep poor people poor and to lower the social mobility in a country. Most European countries have a lot better social mobility than the US, partly due to this.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I’m not familiar with that occurrence. I was talking about the massive market failure last year (contrary to what libertarians say, “market failure” is not an oxymoron).

When you’re dealing with institutions that large, you violate your principles with either route you take.
[/quote]

No, I dont.

Either you serve the customers and get rich or you dont.

If not, though luck.

There is no inconsistency.

[quote]molnes wrote:

More people have a decent education in Europe due to better public schools. That being said there are obviously private schools in the US that are equally good as the private ones in Europe. If you have a family with money it’s really not such a bad deal in the US, but if you don’t it is. It’s a great way to keep poor people poor and to lower the social mobility in a country. Most European countries have a lot better social mobility than the US, partly due to this.
[/quote]

I don’t believe that for a second. In America you can move into any “class” that you want. My Grandpa was a factory worker, my dad was a Doctor. As long as you work hard you can achieve anything.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Hehe, neither one is true, but please continue.

I take it you have forsaken reading entirely then.

Blah blah blah, I don’t like what he says, blah blah blah.
[/quote]

I didn’t see this coming. You responded to my points about your snark with…more pointless snark.

That’s just it: you didn’t make a point. Just like usual. You head straight to insults. If you want a less juvenile response, make a less juvenuile post.