Why Hate Walmart?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
The whole “if you work at Walmart you deserve what you get because you are basically a loser who didn’t plan your life properly” argument. I am in awe of your greatness. … I have to agree with you: someone who decides to work at Walmart so they can support themselves and take some pride in being a contributor to society is a real piece of uneducated trash. How dare they try and be like normal people, the good people, people like you. They’re lucky to even have a paying job because there was a time when they would have been the slaves and serfs while all of us would have been the masters or members of royalty. Let them eat twinkies. [/quote]

This is not at all what anyone is saying. In fact this is insane really.

[/quote]
No one is saying “take it or leave it”? No one is saying it is unskilled work for uneducated people so they get what they are worth? What they are worth as Americans? Humans? What? Oh wait, what the work is worth and since the work can be done by people who are unskilled and uneducated the work is not worth much. So everyone should go to college or get trained in some trade? Funny how when Obama said he wanted every American to have that opportunity a republican like Santorum criticized him for being an elitist because he wanted everyone to get some form of higher education. The irony was that Santorum’s education, BA, MBA, JD, was obtained at public universities.

It’s obvious that some here, whether they realize it or not, are making a connection between the value of the work and the value of the person. The idea that Americans, the greatest people on Earth ever, from the greatest nation ever, don’t have a problem with their fellow countrymen working a full time job while still being in poverty is very heartwarming. So we’re only in it together when blood needs to be spilled?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

…What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR?..

[/quote]

Having Walmarts everywhere is the very antithesis of of Russia/USSR.

Good grief, your intellect could fit on the head of a pin.
[/quote]
First off, you don’t know me so you don’t know what my intellect is. In fact, since we both post here it tells me that you are not a genius either. I mean, you aren’t addressing a group of intellectual giants nor are you about to win a Nobel prize based on your writing here. Having said that, I am sure I am smarter and better educated you but I won’t throw that in your face.

The thing is, you missed the point. I guess your massive intellect got in the way or something. Maybe your neck is tired from supporting that huge brain. Walmart wasn’t the point. The point was that you can have a nation in which there a few who have and the gap between those who have and those who don’t is huge, or you can have a nation which resembles a socialist paradise. Why do we have to decide between the two? I’m sure someone of your considerable gifts has an answer.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

…What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR?..

[/quote]

Having Walmarts everywhere is the very antithesis of of Russia/USSR.

Good grief, your intellect could fit on the head of a pin.
[/quote]
First off, you don’t know me so you don’t know what my intellect is. In fact, since we both post here it tells me that you are not a genius either. I mean, you aren’t addressing a group of intellectual giants nor are you about to win a Nobel prize based on your writing here. Having said that, I am sure I am smarter and better educated you but I won’t throw that in your face.

The thing is, you missed the point. I guess your massive intellect got in the way or something. Maybe your neck is tired from supporting that huge brain. Walmart wasn’t the point. The point was that you can have a nation in which there a few who have and the gap between those who have and those who don’t is huge, or you can have a nation which resembles a socialist paradise. Why do we have to decide between the two? I’m sure someone of your considerable gifts has an answer. [/quote]

Because people that complain that “life is not faaaaiiiiir” vote in politicians who tinker with the system until you can only make it if you have a shitload of seed capital and an army of lawers?

In fact, the impulse to make life faaaaaaiiiiiir, whatever that means, practically insures that we get pre 1917 conditions.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

…What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR?..

[/quote]

Having Walmarts everywhere is the very antithesis of of Russia/USSR.

Good grief, your intellect could fit on the head of a pin.
[/quote]

But Obama’s a COMMUNIST! head explodes

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

No one is saying “take it or leave it”?[/quote]

Take it or leave it isn’t what you said that I quoted.

Nor does this at all equate to what you wrote that I quoted.

Here is the thing that you don’t seem to see. What someone is worth as a person =/= what they are worth in realtion to pay. You act as though I and others look down on WalMart employees as if they are but rocks under my feet. I don’t. In fact the people that work at the store are valuable to those that shop at the store. It is just basic economics that the value they add is only worth the wages they earn.

No, the work is worth little because it adds little value. It is because of the low level of value it adds is why unskilled people can perform it.

I find there is very little “everyone” should do. But WalMart is a great place to work while you do the above.

But the point being, if people don’t like the pay rates the market dictates for those positions, they would be better served doing what you say here.

There is no irnoy there. Liberal thinkers love to try and point out that because a Republican used a government service they are some sort of two faced quack, when in reality that isn’t the case. I know it is fun and feels good to say “AH HA”, but it is silly.

As far as how this has any relevance I don’t know. But I will say the only way to give everyone equal opportunity is liberty. You can’t socially construct equal opportunity because it flies in the face of nature. As someone that grew up on food stamps and worked in WalMart-esk places while learning a skill I really don’t see why leaving these positions open for low skilled people to work in is such a bad idea. Nor can I see how your ealier chicken little ramble has anything to do with providing jobs for people that can’t work in other fields for whatever reason.

No, you are the one doing that. One’s job at WalMart doesn’t determine One’s value as a person. It never has and never will.

Like many people, you only see this through the narrow lense of a hand full of people… You fail to make connections beyond “The Man” keeping the poor people down.

But when it comes down to it, yeah if someone is content with working for WalMart wages then so be it. If they aren’t it is a good insentive to bigger and better things. And with that, it seems I’m the one who cares more for my fellow man, it’s just I’d rather they achieve than hand them anything.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Walmart succeeds by fucking over its workers. The low prices and big dividends are squeezed from some schlep living in a trailer park or some little kid in China or Vietnam.

They don’t want unions because they want to keep the serfs under control. Unions do not set company strategy, or remove management’s opportunity to succeed - they just force management to treat employees like a supplier - rather than a bunch of serfs.

Fuck Walmart.
[/quote]

Nobody forces these people to work at Wal Mart…this is not China, is it?

They can walk down the street and apply at another store, right?[/quote]
But nobody asked me if Walmart could open a store near me, create an eyesore where once there were trees and traffic issues that need to get resolved using tax payer money. Does Walmart see itself as being part of the society that allows it to exist or above it? [/quote]

A logical person would then blame the person who sold the land and the city government for approving a building project that replaced your pristine scenic wonderland with an ugly building that merely provides many jobs and low priced goods.
[/quote]
Ahhhh, so you’re saying that in a nation, a collective of people (sounds like socialism), compromises are made by everyone to insure that everyone benefits. Sort of like, if there is a war then some of us have to die in order to keep the whole thing going, even if those who die are among those who don’t get the most out of it. So it’s pretty crazy that someone who works for Walmart should ask for a decent living wage when they are from the social class that provides most of the troops who protect the nation and keep it safe so that we can have an environment in which businesses like Walmart can prosper. Why does it have to be an either/or argument? Why can’t a business take care of its employees and also make a profit (albeit a slightly smaller one)? What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR? Why isn’t there a middle ground?

And the attitudes of some on this thread is pathetic. The whole “if you work at Walmart you deserve what you get because you are basically a loser who didn’t plan your life properly” argument. I am in awe of your greatness. The idea that you take time out of your busy days that are spent shaping the destiny of humanity to come and post on a forum (which I’m sure is read by world leaders and billionaires) makes me feel unworthy. I have to agree with you: someone who decides to work at Walmart so they can support themselves and take some pride in being a contributor to society is a real piece of uneducated trash. How dare they try and be like normal people, the good people, people like you. They’re lucky to even have a paying job because there was a time when they would have been the slaves and serfs while all of us would have been the masters or members of royalty. Let them eat twinkies. [/quote]

Holy crap! How did my post relate in any way to the inane claptrap you just wrote?

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
No one is saying “take it or leave it”? No one is saying it is unskilled work for uneducated people so they get what they are worth? What they are worth as Americans? Humans? What? Oh wait, what the work is worth and since the work can be done by people who are unskilled and uneducated the work is not worth much. So everyone should go to college or get trained in some trade? Funny how when Obama said he wanted every American to have that opportunity a republican like Santorum criticized him for being an elitist because he wanted everyone to get some form of higher education. The irony was that Santorum’s education, BA, MBA, JD, was obtained at public universities.

It’s obvious that some here, whether they realize it or not, are making a connection between the value of the work and the value of the person. The idea that Americans, the greatest people on Earth ever, from the greatest nation ever, don’t have a problem with their fellow countrymen working a full time job while still being in poverty is very heartwarming. So we’re only in it together when blood needs to be spilled? [/quote]

Worth as humans and Americans is unequal to worth in the market, CB pointed out. However, you’re exactly right, unskilled work performed by uneducated workers is worth less. I’ve done unskilled work. I’ve spent time behind a cash register ringing up items at minimum wage. I’ve spent time bent over in a field pulling up weeds. I’ve even spent time behind the wheel of an ambulance. Each of those jobs paid me differently based on many factors, mainly the level of work being performed and its worth in the market place. You make what your work is worth, not what you are worth as a person.

As far as everyone going to college or learning a trade, yes and no. Not everyone should go to college. I’m finally in college now at 26 paying out of my own pocket for it because I decided it was something that I wanted to do to improve my life. However, I’m surrounded by idiots who don’t need to be here and are only wasting their parents money (or taking out insane amounts of loans) barely going to class and partying. Those people don’t need to be here.

As far as learning a trade, sure. Learn to be an electrician or a plumber. Hell, I support that for most people far more than them going to college. However, if you choose not to do that. If you decide you’re okay sitting behind a cash register all day, you’re going to suffer financially. Those jobs are not meant to be careers. Minimum wage jobs should be for people new to the country trying to learn or the high school or college kid that needs a part-time job. If your goal is to work there the rest of your life and try to raise a family on it, you’re gonna have a bad time. Don’t come whining to me. I’m not responsible for your decisions.

It works both ways. My uncle and aunt, for example, are completely broke. She works as a secretary and he works for some pest control company. But they waste their money. He gambles like every weekend. They buy new tvs all the time. The latest game systems. Cigarettes. Etc. My parents, who are not rich in any sense of the word…my dad’s a farmer and my mom’s a secretary…have given them so much money throughout the years, mainly to help with my cousins, who are both over 18 now. About ten years ago, my grandfather who is on a fixed retirement income, helped buy them a new mini-van because they only had one working vehicle. Every time something goes wrong, even it’s clearly their fault, they immediately look around for someone else to blame. Unfortunately, I doubt that they will ever improve their situation…thankfully, both my cousins seem to be a lot more sensible than their parents and a lot more determined to raise their situation.

On the other hand, my friends just got married. They both work at Walmart. He’s working his ass off hoping to become a manager and then hopefully keep rising. She’s going back to school in her time off. They have a small apartment. A cheap, old tv. Craigslist furniture. Are waiting to have kids. Etc. They’re pretty comfortable. They’re deciding to save money and work hard and don’t plan to work minimum wage their whole lives and try to raise kids on that. They’re on the road to somewhere.

We make our own decisions in our life. Certain things may happen that help to influence or limit decisions available, but that’s life. You look at your options and decide which to do. If you decide to take the easiest route possible, don’t come crying to me when you’re not rolling in money.

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

…What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR?..

[/quote]

Having Walmarts everywhere is the very antithesis of of Russia/USSR.

Good grief, your intellect could fit on the head of a pin.
[/quote]

But Obama’s a COMMUNIST! head explodes[/quote]

Well, he is a collectivist and an elitist Jacobin.

So, if someone calls him as socialist or communist, at least his compass points in the right direction.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

…What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR?..

[/quote]

Having Walmarts everywhere is the very antithesis of of Russia/USSR.

Good grief, your intellect could fit on the head of a pin.
[/quote]
First off, you don’t know me so you don’t know what my intellect is. In fact, since we both post here it tells me that you are not a genius either. I mean, you aren’t addressing a group of intellectual giants nor are you about to win a Nobel prize based on your writing here. Having said that, I am sure I am smarter and better educated you but I won’t throw that in your face.

The thing is, you missed the point. I guess your massive intellect got in the way or something. Maybe your neck is tired from supporting that huge brain. Walmart wasn’t the point. The point was that you can have a nation in which there a few who have and the gap between those who have and those who don’t is huge, or you can have a nation which resembles a socialist paradise. Why do we have to decide between the two? I’m sure someone of your considerable gifts has an answer. [/quote]

Because people that complain that “life is not faaaaiiiiir” vote in politicians who tinker with the system until you can only make it if you have a shitload of seed capital and an army of lawers?

In fact, the impulse to make life faaaaaaiiiiiir, whatever that means, practically insures that we get pre 1917 conditions.

[/quote]

I never mentioned life or fair. The problem with that is you need to define what you mean by life and fair. Besides, to say life is or isn’t fair is to say that life has a conscience. We actually are talking about wages (not life) and that is something that is under human control, not an arbitrary concept like life. My point isn’t what is fair or right but why people resort to taking the extreme position and argue from there. If you are in favor of higher wages you’re a commie. If you are in favor of Walmart paying whatever it wants you support robber barons. If people didn’t base their opinions on their political affiliations or leanings they would see that they are asking the wrong questions.

Employers like Walmart were not supposed to provide many jobs that people could live off of. There would be some management positions or specialized work that could be considered careers. As an undergrad I worked two part time jobs. One was in a supermarket. There were a few managers who made a decent living. The meat cutters made a good living. Cashiers didn’t make much but they were either students or women who had husbands that were the main providers and they would work around their kids’ schedules. The question that isn’t being asked is why do people now need Walmart and others to provide a full time job, with benefits and a living wage? Is it because at one time the people who work there would have been working somewhere that made the things Walmart sells? When I was younger if you didn’t go to college or learn a trade you could go work in a factory. The work wasn’t easy but the pay was relatively good and so were the benefits. Where are those jobs now? Everything comes with a price and it isn’t like no one warned us. By shipping our manufacturing base overseas we have left ourselves with a large unskilled, uneducated, unemployed workforce. We saw this coming but did nothing about it. So the question isn’t some rich vs poor, liberal vs conservative, debate. It’s what do we do about the lack of jobs that provide a living to people who lack an education or skill. And it’s a question that has to be answered because those who have will be forced to decide between paying more in wages or paying more in taxes to subsidize these people’s lives. It’s time to stop looking at problems as a republican or a democrat and as an American. Political parties and ideologies don’t solve problems; they just take sides.

I don’t want to see us become a nation that hands out entitlements like candy but I also don’t want to see a large number of Americans living as though they are in a 3rd world nation. These people who need places like Walmart to provide a living are not going anywhere. You can say to them if they don’t like Walmart go somewhere else (Target?) but wherever they go they will still be in the USA. They will still be our problem. I don’t want to see us become a socialist nation (it isn’t going to happen, Fox news is lying) because I have it good and don’t want to give up what I have, what I’ve earned, what I’ve worked for. I also don’t want to see America end up looking like Detroit. I don’t choose Marx. I don’t choose Rand. They cared more about being right. Sort of like people on this thread.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

…What’s the point of having a nation if it’s going to end up looking like either pre-1917 Russia or the USSR?..

[/quote]

Having Walmarts everywhere is the very antithesis of of Russia/USSR.

Good grief, your intellect could fit on the head of a pin.
[/quote]
First off, you don’t know me so you don’t know what my intellect is. In fact, since we both post here it tells me that you are not a genius either. I mean, you aren’t addressing a group of intellectual giants nor are you about to win a Nobel prize based on your writing here. Having said that, I am sure I am smarter and better educated you but I won’t throw that in your face.

The thing is, you missed the point. I guess your massive intellect got in the way or something. Maybe your neck is tired from supporting that huge brain. Walmart wasn’t the point. The point was that you can have a nation in which there a few who have and the gap between those who have and those who don’t is huge, or you can have a nation which resembles a socialist paradise. Why do we have to decide between the two? I’m sure someone of your considerable gifts has an answer. [/quote]

Because people that complain that “life is not faaaaiiiiir” vote in politicians who tinker with the system until you can only make it if you have a shitload of seed capital and an army of lawers?

In fact, the impulse to make life faaaaaaiiiiiir, whatever that means, practically insures that we get pre 1917 conditions.

[/quote]

I never mentioned life or fair. The problem with that is you need to define what you mean by life and fair. Besides, to say life is or isn’t fair is to say that life has a conscience. We actually are talking about wages (not life) and that is something that is under human control, not an arbitrary concept like life. My point isn’t what is fair or right but why people resort to taking the extreme position and argue from there. If you are in favor of higher wages you’re a commie. If you are in favor of Walmart paying whatever it wants you support robber barons. If people didn’t base their opinions on their political affiliations or leanings they would see that they are asking the wrong questions.
[/quote]

Wages are in fact not under human control. They are an indicator of scarcity, like any other price.

The only “control” anyone has is to distort the signal.

The fact of the matter is, what it takes to restock shelves at Walmart is so common that nobody will shell out too much for it.

It does not work that way.

The reason why manufacturing has left the US is because a certain party insisted that the air must be pristine, that noone should be discriminated against ever, that there should be an extensive social safety net, that worker safety regulations micromanage whole and whatnot.

Well, all of this costs money, at a certain point companies are no longer interested.

Its like the minimum wage nonsense, just on a societal level.

You might remember the brouhaha when Boing decided to build a plant in a more business friendly US state and actually got sued for it.

[quote]
I don’t want to see us become a nation that hands out entitlements like candy but I also don’t want to see a large number of Americans living as though they are in a 3rd world nation. These people who need places like Walmart to provide a living are not going anywhere. You can say to them if they don’t like Walmart go somewhere else (Target?) but wherever they go they will still be in the USA. They will still be our problem. I don’t want to see us become a socialist nation (it isn’t going to happen, Fox news is lying) because I have it good and don’t want to give up what I have, what I’ve earned, what I’ve worked for. I also don’t want to see America end up looking like Detroit. I don’t choose Marx. I don’t choose Rand. They cared more about being right. Sort of like people on this thread. [/quote]

Well, you will need to choose either or, because the golden middle leads inevitably to more collectivism, more regulation and an eventual breakdown of society.

The mere thought that somehow wise men, maybe even wise Latina women, can somehow find a way if they just set aside their differences means already embracing a liberal narrative.

No, they cant.

Human societies are emergent systems that are far beyond anyones ability to plan, manage or even understand and all that can be done is to get out of the way and see what happens.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
The whole “if you work at Walmart you deserve what you get because you are basically a loser who didn’t plan your life properly” argument. I am in awe of your greatness. … I have to agree with you: someone who decides to work at Walmart so they can support themselves and take some pride in being a contributor to society is a real piece of uneducated trash. How dare they try and be like normal people, the good people, people like you. They’re lucky to even have a paying job because there was a time when they would have been the slaves and serfs while all of us would have been the masters or members of royalty. Let them eat twinkies. [/quote]

This is not at all what anyone is saying. In fact this is insane really.

[/quote]
No one is saying “take it or leave it”? No one is saying it is unskilled work for uneducated people so they get what they are worth? What they are worth as Americans? Humans? What? Oh wait, what the work is worth and since the work can be done by people who are unskilled and uneducated the work is not worth much. So everyone should go to college or get trained in some trade? Funny how when Obama said he wanted every American to have that opportunity a republican like Santorum criticized him for being an elitist because he wanted everyone to get some form of higher education. The irony was that Santorum’s education, BA, MBA, JD, was obtained at public universities.

It’s obvious that some here, whether they realize it or not, are making a connection between the value of the work and the value of the person. The idea that Americans, the greatest people on Earth ever, from the greatest nation ever, don’t have a problem with their fellow countrymen working a full time job while still being in poverty is very heartwarming. So we’re only in it together when blood needs to be spilled? [/quote]

Wow. Dude, America is great because everyone has the OPPORTUNITY to be what they want to be, not because of some socialist guarantee that everyone gets a “fair share”. If you work hard, persevere, create a semi-intelligent plan, and execute it over a reasonable time frame, your chance of success here in the good ole’ USA is better than than anywhere else in the world. THAT’S IT.

If you fuck off, get poor grades, make stupid decisions and are a lazy person, then WHY on earth are you “owed” nice things and good income? Just because you live in America? That makes no sense… Walmart employees should feel LUCKY that someone has hired them, because generally, they have no marketable skills. If they DO have marketable skills, then they must not want to work using those skills bad enough to get a job. Any thing else is just a fucking excuse.

I grew up DIRT POOR in shitty Baltimore City neighborhood. Fucked up family situation, left home at 16, didn’t graduate High School. Started fucking up and went to prison for almost four year. Got stabbed five times. When I got out, I got the only job that would hire an unskilled felon without a HS diploma - a painter’s helper. I didn’t like it very much, but having a job was a condition of my parole, so stuck with it. On one of the jobs I met some carpenters. They made more money and didn’t have to breath paint fumes all day, so I asked if they were hiring. They saw that I came to work on time every day and worked hard, so the owner gave me a chance. A few months later, on a bigger job, I was working around some electricians. I got to know them pretty well and one of them had a father who was an electrical contractor. He spoke with his dad and I was hired as an electrical helper. I liked being an electrician so I showed up for work every day and worked hard. A few years later, the owner was able to help me get accepted into the apprenticeship program.

Fast forward ten years and I was a top foreman making money over scale with a company truck and money in the bank. The real estate market was booming and I seized an opportunity to get into the mortgage business. I could afford to take the risk. I became a loan officer, made a shit-ton of money, bought and sold a bunch of real estate, took some business/marketing classes, started a marketing company, got a bunch of clients outside of the real estate/mortgage arena. Leveraged my assets and became a principal in several of those businesses including a successful renewable energy company. When I suspected the bubble economy was unsustainable, I sold most of my shares for a NICE profit and geared my mortgage business toward FHA/VA/Agency business and away from the sub-prime.

Turns out I was right and the bubble popped. I was one of the few mortgage brokers positioned to do FHA loans - most lenders/brokers didn’t even have a mini-eagle (the ability to underwrite Gov’t secured loans vs. portfolio loans). I watched as banks shut down and lenders “imploded”. I saw veterans of the real estate/mortgage industry go bankrupt and lose everything they had. I was still originating between 5 and 10 million in volume a month and doing just fine. Then, when Obama singed the Dodd Frank Act into law, my mortgage career was unceremoniously ripped out from under me. Being a felon made it impossible for me to become licensed under the new requirements, even though I can count the number of foreclose loans that I had originated on one hand.

But I still had my electrical skill to fall back on. The only problem is that there were about 1200 guys “on the bench”, so I had to wait. So I bartended and did side jobs. Keep in mind, I was handling other obligations other than my own, I had people depending on me that I was providing for, so I blew through a lot of savings, but it was worth it. Bartending was fun, but I needed to make more money, and I wasn’t utilizing my electrical skill set. So I packed all my shit in my car, drove to Louisiana and paid for some classes that would enable me to work offshore on oil rigs. While I lived in a tent. I knocked on doors and found a job. I worked in the Gulf of Mexico for the better part of year. It was long hard hours away from my family, but I did it because I had people counting on me. I continued to network for employment closer to home and was recently hired as a foreman to install the Switchgear, Generators, ATS system and UPS system for the larges construction project east of the Mississippi - it’s close to my house.

So when someone bitches about being poor (or worse yet, when someone NOT poor bitches about so many people being poor) I really don’t want to hear it. I grew up with every disadvantage you can think of. I am a felon without a HS diploma. What’s THEIR excuse?

You want a HINT about why I was able to do all that? I never felt like anyone OWED me anything. I have never taken a dollar of unemployment in my life. I worked hard, set goals and didn’t quit. When I saw an opportunity, I took it. I took risks. I sacrificed. I moved across the country. I educated myself. I networked. I always believed in myself and never counted on anyone else or the government to “help” me. When I started something, I had an exit strategy (“begin with the end in mind”, ring a bell for anyone?). I NEVER made excuses for my failures, shortcomings or mistakes - I owned them ALL and, more importantly, I LEARNED from them. Without shame, embarrassment or resistance.

“The MAN” isn’t holding poor people back. Walmart isn’t holding it’s employees back. PEOPLE hold THEMSELVES back. The American Dream is REAL. I’m living proof. People are just too lazy and more worried about Kim Kardashian’s ass or the next Call of Duty game to realize it.

First off I am conservative to the bone and think that if you are hungry, instead of a handout - you need to get a job any job at any wage. And if you can’t get a job, then you better have a garden so you can eat…

But you have to be a heartless bastard if you really think paying $7 an hour is something people - in Walmart’s case, women with 2 snot nose kids, can actually live on.

I owned a retail store for years and the work is always tiring, generally thankless, and deserves a living wage to those who put forth the effort to do their job right.

[quote]treco wrote:
First off I am conservative to the bone and think that if you are hungry, instead of a handout - you need to get a job any job at any wage. And if you can’t get a job, then you better have a garden so you can eat…

But you have to be a heartless bastard if you really think paying $7 an hour is something people - in Walmart’s case, women with 2 snot nose kids, can actually live on.

I owned a retail store for years and the work is always tiring, generally thankless, and deserves a living wage to those who put forth the effort to do their job right. [/quote]

The universe does not give a shit what anyone “deserves”.

Relative scarcity is all that matters and if you are a single mom with a highschool degree your skills are a dime a dozen and get renumerated accordingly.

On the bright side, she serves as a warning for others.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]treco wrote:

The universe does not give a shit what anyone “deserves”.

Relative scarcity is all that matters and if you are a single mom with a highschool degree your skills are a dime a dozen and get renumerated accordingly.

On the bright side, she serves as a warning for others. [/quote]

Hmmmm - you live in a country with 2x the mandated minimum wage and relatively equal cost of living. I have included a comparison of Vienna and Dallas TX which is my closest city.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Dallas%2C+tx&country2=Austria&city2=Vienna

My point is one of humanity most likely shaped by my Christianity. When I had a business with mid 6 figure investment out of my pocket, rather than thinking I had to make every last penny, I chose to pay my employees 2-3x what Walmart does. Menial jobs must be performed for our society to function and deserve to be compensated a living wage. Not trying to get them 70" tv sports cars, or beach houses,just honest pay for honest work.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]treco wrote:
First off I am conservative to the bone and think that if you are hungry, instead of a handout - you need to get a job any job at any wage. And if you can’t get a job, then you better have a garden so you can eat…

But you have to be a heartless bastard if you really think paying $7 an hour is something people - in Walmart’s case, women with 2 snot nose kids, can actually live on.

I owned a retail store for years and the work is always tiring, generally thankless, and deserves a living wage to those who put forth the effort to do their job right. [/quote]

I understand your sentiments to a degree, Treco. However, should the almighty government with its power of the sword intervene? Should it force Walmart, and others, to pay the living wage of say…$20.00 an hour? Is that the answer? More government? Will that do the trick? Will more government solve [cough] yet another problem?[/quote]

Yeah I hear you on government intervention , hard to legislate people’s normal tendency towards extreme greed. But like in my response to Orion, I still think there should be a higher minimum wage that is actually livable for those who work. That said, the business practices of Walmart and the hordes that have learned from them have had as big reason on manufacturing as any for companies exiting the country.
I personally have had 3 companies tell me that after getting involved with Walmart, that they were bullied into Asian production to get the pricing structure that Walmart had decided. The ultimate threat being that they would send items there and get it knocked off.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]treco wrote:

The universe does not give a shit what anyone “deserves”.

Relative scarcity is all that matters and if you are a single mom with a highschool degree your skills are a dime a dozen and get renumerated accordingly.

On the bright side, she serves as a warning for others. [/quote]

Hmmmm - you live in a country with 2x the mandated minimum wage and relatively equal cost of living. I have included a comparison of Vienna and Dallas TX which is my closest city.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Dallas%2C+tx&country2=Austria&city2=Vienna

My point is one of humanity most likely shaped by my Christianity. When I had a business with mid 6 figure investment out of my pocket, rather than thinking I had to make every last penny, I chose to pay my employees 2-3x what Walmart does. Menial jobs must be performed for our society to function and deserve to be compensated a living wage. Not trying to get them 70" tv sports cars, or beach houses,just honest pay for honest work.

[/quote]

I also live in a country where you effectively pay 70-80% in taxes if you are working middle class.

Also, minimum wages just need to higher unemployment.