Why Give Money to Indonesia?

Here’s a link to some photos of U.S. relief efforts, just released by the Navy:

http://www.navy.mil/view_photos.asp?page=1&sort_type=0&sort_row=1

This editorial from the Asian edition of the Wall Street Journal addresses the original question:

The Triumph of Humanitarianism
January 4, 2005

More than a week after the tsunami struck, at least 1.8 million in the affected areas are still without food or, in some cases, safe drinking water. The wheels of the United Nations bureaucracy grind slowly. Jan Egeland, its disaster relief coordinator, says it could take days, or even another week, to get food supplies into all the devastated areas.

That’s time the survivors don’t have. Every day of further delay will only add to the already huge death toll and increase the risk of the spread of disease. That’s why U.S. President George W. Bush has bypassed the slow-moving U.N. and, as George Melloan writes in a related article, together with allies such as Australia has constructed a humanitarian coalition of the willing to get aid to the victims more quickly.

As the U.N. organizes conferences in Jakarta, and complains of logistical bottle necks, the U.S. military is getting on with the job at hand. Ever since the USS Abraham Lincoln arrived off the coast of Sumatra Saturday, its helicopters have been flying desperately needed relief supplies deep into the heart of Indonesia’s devastated Aceh province. They’re just part of one of the largest military relief operations in history. At least a dozen more U.S. warships are on their way, together with military planes and vessels from Australia, Singapore and even France.

Already there are signs that America’s quick action to fill the vacuum left by U.N. lethargy is winning Indonesian hearts and minds. “U.S. aid is so helpful,” survivor Zainul Arifin, who lost his sister in the tsunami, told the Los Angeles Times. “Who else can help us deliver it?”

Such gratitude stands in marked contrast to the resentment that Indonesian clerics and political leaders have often succeeded in whipping up against the U.S. in the past, over issues such as Iraq. Some politicians in this predominantly Muslim country even refuse publicly to condemn Jemaah Islamiyah, the al Qaeda Asian affiliate responsible for a string of attacks against predominantly Australian and American interests.

But Indonesia has a new president. U.S.-educated Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who took office three months ago, understands the importance of cracking down on terrorism. He also seems to have grasped the opportunity presented by this crisis to counter the Islamic extremists by letting his countrymen see at first hand the generosity of the Western world.

His government’s unprecedented decision to open Aceh, the scene of a long-running secessionist conflict, to outsiders, has allowed U.S. aid to flow directly to the areas where it is most needed. Only last week, the war torn province was off limits even to aid workers. Now American marines mingle freely with Indonesian soldiers at the island’s military airport as they show how U.S. military prowess can be used to save lives.

“Indonesians are a very grateful people,” Muhammad Lutfi, a past adviser to Mr. Yudhoyono and owner of a major Indonesian newspaper “Republik,” told us yesterday. “It’s a very good gesture and it’s going to make a tremendous difference.”

As relief supplies begins to reach the survivors, attention needs to shift to a full-scale reconstruction effort to rebuild the devastated areas. That would win yet more hearts and minds over the long term, and deny the extremists the chance to start spreading their poison again once the immediate crisis is over.

But American cooperation with Indonesia remains hamstrung by limits on military to military ties put in place by the U.S. Congress after the violence that followed East Timor’s 1999 independence plebiscite. The events of the past few days have shown how outdated such restrictions have become. Instead the Indonesian military should form part of a new partnership to demonstrate how humanitarianism can triumph over terrorism-and try to ensure that some good comes out of the tsunami tragedy.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1104867095930.51896117.jpg

Can we just not give any money to the guy in the t-shirt?

[quote]dcb wrote:
Can we just not give any money to the guy in the t-shirt?[/quote]

I agree

Another good argument for aid to Indonesia:

http://nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/37718.htm

IN HORROR’S WAKE

By RALPH PETERS

January 4, 2005 – CATASTROPHES unleash great human energies. For now, the world’s attention is fixed on the stunning destruction wrought in South Asia, on global mourning. But the long-term effects of nature’s terrorism may surprise us all.

In the short-term, the misery is incalculable. Even after the last corpses have been buried or burned, survivors will continue to lack adequate shelter. Food and water shortages, the threat of epidemics and psychological paralysis will drag out the misery. Entire cities may not rise again.

The key outcome of the disaster is going to appear in Indonesia, especially on the ravaged island of Sumatra, where Aceh province suffered the worst effects of the tsunami. Vast stretches of coastline, thickly settled, disappeared. Even now, the full extent of the destruction has not been surveyed.

Aceh lies in the far northwest of Indonesia’s mini-empire of 17,000 islands. Islam penetrated there six centuries ago, arriving with traders from the Arabian peninsula. Early ties with Mecca gave the faith of the Prophet deeper roots and stricter tenets in Aceh than elsewhere in Indonesia, where Islam came later and Muslim beliefs are wonderfully muddled with folk religion, Buddhist strains and even hints of Hinduism.

As a result, Aceh has suffered under a long Islamic insurgency that means to establish an independent state closer in spirit to Riyadh than to Jakarta. Wandering through Indonesia, I was struck by the complexity and humanity of the many local variants of Islam ? and by the lack of interest in the Aceh-style intolerance the Saudis were anxious to spread throughout the country.

At present, the United States is doing the right thing ? and the wise thing ? by hurrying aid to Aceh. The efforts are critical in purely human terms, and they also help polish our tarnished relations with Indonesia, the world’s most-populous Muslim country. But we need to have realistic expectations. The Acehnese may remember our help fondly, but aid alone will not change the province’s centuries-old prejudices.

Such change must come from within. We can play a constructive role on the margins, but the dynamic that matters is already at work within the local society. The question that matters is this: How will Indonesians interpret the disaster that has befallen Aceh?

Earthquakes, plagues and famines can either drag a population backward into superstition ? or thrust it forward into a new spirit of inventiveness and creativity. Disasters sharpen the popular intellect, loosen social structures and pose fundamental questions: Why did God do this? What is the meaning of our suffering? Is there a meaning?

Given Aceh’s fundamentalist tradition, the response from local mullahs (whose authority is threatened) is apt to be the age-old claim that Allah punished Aceh because it had already become too liberal. The popular interpretation of events is unpredictable for now, but we could see Aceh becoming even more devout ? or opening up.

Just beware the rise of a charismatic charlatan.

The crucial strategic results actually may appear elsewhere in Indonesia, where Saudi-funded agents have been struggling to destroy liberal Islam. On Java or Sulawesi, the lesson is that Aceh’s oppressive religion didn’t protect it; on the contrary, Allah struck those who were most prideful about their faith. The earthquake and tsunami may have drowned Saudi-funded extremism as surely as it did the Sumatran countryside.

The effectiveness of the Indonesian government’s response will be critical to the country’s future integrity. Perceived government failure will strengthen the Acehnese rebels and the fundamentalists. But if the government is viewed as caring and moderately capable, it could turn around the separatist mentality.

This is a vitally important matter. Foolishly, Washington neglects the strategic importance of the Indian Ocean in general and of Indonesia in particular. Any assistance we can give Jakarta in making the national government appear effective in its relief efforts is money and sweat well-spent. Aceh may be where humane Islam can turn the tide against extremist hatred.

One great advantage the forces of civilization have in this struggle is that the Saudis, while glad to fund hate-dripping extremists, are stingy when it comes to relieving human suffering. Just as they have kept the Palestinians on the verge of poverty for decades, they’ve been slow off the mark in assisting their fellow Muslims struck by the tsunami.

Even when the Saudis do make a half-hearted attempt at relief efforts, they fail miserably. The worst-run refugee camp I’ve ever entered was a Saudi-sponsored plague-pit in Azerbaijan. When the local Muslims resisted the harsh Wahabi codes of behavior, the Saudis abandoned them. All that remained were a few corrupt contracts, a broken computer and cholera.

Despite early U.N. trash-talk that U.S. aid is inadequate, we’re the force on the scene. Only we have the ability to reach out and help with such alacrity and power. It’s a shame we don’t know how to fight the public-relations battle.

Meanwhile, Indonesia is going to be a fascinating country to watch. The tsunami’s ultimate effects, beyond the dreadful human toll, are unpredictable. But the opportunities for a troubled region to stride ahead are far greater than the current devastation suggests. This tragedy may mark the start of a new, more-hopeful era.

It’s not about the buildings, but the souls.

Ralph Peters conducted a major study of Indonesia for the Marine Corps in 2002.

In response to the original question.

There are but a few times when someone can bluntly and inflexibly suggest that there is only one right thing to do.

Now is one of those times.

It is our obligation to help those that cannot help themselves. With power - which the US has untrammeled - there comes not only privilege, but responsibility.

As for all of them hating the US, maybe, maybe not, I don’t care - basic human life is at stake, and standing around with our arms folded would be an act of moral cowardice.

There’s all kinds of good reasons to help - geopolitical strategy, creating or improving trade avenues between markets, etc. - but we only need one reason to help, and we’ve got it.

Hi all, just a note on this ongoing humanitarian crisis, the Aust Gov has just announced a total aid package of $1.8Billion over 5yrs, this is on top of the tens of millions the citizenry have already donated.
It’s good to see people of all races, religions and political leanings pulling together in this time of natural disaster.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1277184.htmrgds
ShaunW

I think the question is not so much “Should we help?”, but “Through what mechanism should charity flow?”

I don’t believe government is the most efficient or effective way to deliver aid. I don’t believe that our government constitutionally was designed to be “redistributors of wealth” in any format. Charity begins at home. It is easy to pontificate about how “we” should be more charitable, when in reality that means “government money”.

I think this story from the life of Davy Crockett illustrates this well:

Seems a little hostile way to say Thanks!

Marines ease aid efforts
Indonesian leader wary of presence.

Published Wednesday, January 12, 2005
BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - U.S. Marines have scaled back their planned tsunami aid efforts after reaching a compromise with the government and agreeing not to carry weapons or set up a base camp on Indonesian soil, an American spokesman said today.

The aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, which is leading the U.S. military?s relief effort, steamed out of Indonesian waters today because the country declined to let the ship?s fighter pilots use its airspace for training missions. Helicopters will still deliver aid to Sumatra?s devastated coast, however.

Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said foreign troops would be out of the country by the end of March. “A three-month period is enough, even the sooner the better,” Kalla said.

The moves underscore sensitivities in nationalistic Indonesia at having foreign military forces operating there, even in a humanitarian operation. They also come amid warnings from the Indonesian military that areas of tsunami-battered Aceh province might not be safe for aid workers.

The government ordered aid workers and journalists to declare travel plans or face expulsion from Aceh as authorities moved to reassert control of the rebellion-wracked area.

At a Paris meeting today, a French official said the world?s wealthiest nations believe a temporary suspension of billions of dollars in debt repayments by tsunami-devastated countries will provide a necessary “breath of oxygen” for recovery and reconstruction from the Dec. 26 disaster that killed more than 150,000 people across southern Asia.

While three debtor countries - Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Seychelles - support the moratorium, Thailand does not because it fears the potential effect on its standing in international financial markets, French Finance Minister Herve Gaymard told RFI radio.

The proposed moratorium on debt repayments by tsunami-hit countries “was very quickly accepted” by the 19 creditor nations that make up the Paris Club, Gaymard said.

Later, as the Paris Club met to sign off on the proposal, Gaymard told reporters the leading industrialized nations within the club regard the moratorium as “completely indispensable” for tsunami-hit countries “to overcome the immense difficulties.”


Hate the evil empire, but have no problem taking their money.

[quote]choyt wrote:
Hate the evil empire, but have no problem taking their money.[/quote]

Looks like photoshop to me…

I dunno if this has been mentioned, but keep in mind that there’s a fair difference between Muslim countries in the Middle East and elsewhere.

In Malaysia, for example, the rules aren’t nearly as strict as in Iran. Women do not have to cover their hair, and few choose to. It is hard to compare them to more fundamental Muslim nations. It would almost be like comparing a Christian who believes in God but doesn’t necessarily go ‘spread the word’ to a Jehova’s Witness.

Of course the US should give money to Indonesia- people are suffering and dying, put religion and politics aside, but, if possible, bypass the Indonesian Govt, and get the money or supplies to the people who need it directly. The Indonesian Govt is a repressive regime. It waged genocide on East Timor for years and has also been suppressing the people of Aceh (one of the reasons the Indonesian Govt are very nervous about all the foreigners who are now able to visit Aceh). This story may now get more news coverage. Access will equal awareness, especially when reporters get tired of writing about the tsunami.

The US also owes the Indonesian people, in a way. Guess where most of the weapons the Indonesian Govt uses to kill and oppress its own people come from. Time to give some of those blood-stained dollars back.

any got the link to the specs from the UN about the amount of foreign aid each country gives annually for say the past 10 years? Then we’ll need to see the GBP for each country, and the income/person. Then we can all bitch and whine about who is a cheapskate.

And just cos a country donates more, doesn’t absolve it of any criticism…you make $100 and donate $20, he makes $20 and donates $10…but you donated more you say…

[quote]Ren wrote:
any got the link to the specs from the UN about the amount of foreign aid each country gives annually for say the past 10 years? Then we’ll need to see the GBP for each country, and the income/person. Then we can all bitch and whine about who is a cheapskate.

And just cos a country donates more, doesn’t absolve it of any criticism…you make $100 and donate $20, he makes $20 and donates $10…but you donated more you say…[/quote]

Here’s a link I found
htttp:www.globalissues.orgTradeRelatedDebtUSAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

While the total US’s dollar amount of Foreign Aid Assistance is the highest in the world, in terms of percentage of its GNP, it is the lowest of any industrialized nation in the world.

another answer to why … ?

in short … coz US needs Indonesia

Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc., or Freeport for short, is the world’s lowest-cost copper producer and one of the world’s largest producers of gold. Listed on the New York Stock Exchange as FCX, its subsidiaries include PT Freeport Indonesia, PT Irja Eastern Minerals and Atlantic Copper, S.A.

Best known for its Grasberg mine in West Papua, Indonesia, the company is the largest tax payer to the Indonesian government; mines and mills ore containing copper, gold and silver for the world market; and denies allegations of on-going human rights abuses and theft of native properties.

The company’s wealth stems from a mining license agreement signed in 1967. The original license sold to the US company Freeport McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc., including mining rights for 30 km2. The company holds a 30 year exclusive mining license for the region from the official opening of the mine (1981). Locals have made several violent attempts to dissuade the mine owners, including blowing up a pipeline in July, but order was quickly restored. In 1989 the mining license was extended to an additional 25,000 km2.

In 2003 the company was forced to admit it had been paying the local Indonesian military to keep the native landowners away from their lands. In 2005, The New York Times reported that company records showed the total amount paid between 1998 and 2004 amounted to nearly 20 million USD, distributed among both officers and units, with one individual receiving up to 150,000 USD. The company response was that there was “no alternative to our reliance on the Indonesian military and police in this regard”.

Eyewitness reports of abuses, and repeated statements from the local land owners for over twenty years that they wish the mine and the Indonesians to leave their lands seem incongruous with company statements. Freeport is only one of the foreign mining operations in Indonesia with questionable human and native rights records.

i don’t check whether this had been posted yet or not … but why give money to indonesia?
here is another answer:
http://www.realhistoryarchives.com/collections/hidden/freeport-indonesia.htm

[quote]sawahladang wrote:
i don’t check whether this had been posted yet or not … but why give money to indonesia?
here is another answer:
http://www.realhistoryarchives.com/collections/hidden/freeport-indonesia.htm

[/quote]

Wow… SUPER NECROPOST.

Dude… how far back did you have to go to find this???

nah … i found it by accident.

actually i am googling "cia indonesia israel bali bomb bla bla … "

and i happenned to see this link.

:slight_smile:

(try googling those words :wink: )