Why Give Money to Indonesia?

For this simple reason-

VITO CORLEONE:
Bonasera… Bonasera… What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully?

Had you come to me in friendship, then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And that by chance if an honest man such as yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies. And then they would fear you.

BONASERA: Be my friend – – Godfather?

VITO CORLEONE: (after Bonasera kisses his hand)

Good.

Some day, and that day may never come, I’ll call upon you to do a service for me. But uh, until that day – accept this justice as a gift on my daughter’s wedding day.

The US is the biggest mob in the world and thankfully so. We send you money and people to clean-up, you clean up the terroists and anything else we tell you to do.

I fucking hate Liberals. No matter what the Bush Administration does, they’ll bitch. If we give money, they piss and moan. “Why is Bush helping them? They’re Muslim. They hate us.” If we don’t give money, again, they piss and moan. “Bush is such a pig. All these people are dying and he isn’t giving them money because they supposedly hate us.”

[quote]Pambele wrote:
For your information the US is the stingiest of the G7 on a % of GDP basis. Look it up.

For the guy who started this thread, I shudder when I think that there are people like you out there.[/quote]

You are an asshole. The U.S. comprises 40% of ALL public aid in the last 2 years. 40%. The private donations from U.S. citizens totaled $5 billion.

I shudder to think that there are people out there like you - big steaming pieces of shit.

professor, such horrible events have occured in history. Sorry to say, but this is not even close to being the worse one ever. Here is a list:

Most Destructive Known Earthquakes on Record in the World
Earthquakes with 50,000 or More Deaths

Listed in order of greatest number of deaths

Date Location Deaths Magnitude Comments
January 23, 1556 China, Shansi 830,000 ~8
July 27, 1976 China, Tangshan 255,000
(official) 7.5 Estimated death toll as high as 655,000.
August 9, 1138 Syria, Aleppo 230,000
May 22, 1927 China, near Xining 200,000 7.9 Large fractures.
December 22, 856+ Iran, Damghan 200,000
December 16, 1920 China, Gansu 200,000 8.6 Major fractures, landslides.
March 23, 893+ Iran, Ardabil 150,000
September 1, 1923 Japan, Kwanto 143,000 7.9 Great Tokyo fire.
October 5, 1948 USSR
(Turkmenistan, Ashgabat) 110,000 7.3
December 28, 1908 Italy, Messina 70,000 to 100,000
(estimated) 7.2 Deaths from earthquake and tsunami.
September, 1290 China, Chihli 100,000
November, 1667 Caucasia, Shemakha 80,000
November 18, 1727 Iran, Tabriz 77,000
November 1, 1755 Portugal, Lisbon 70,000 8.7 Great tsunami.
December 25, 1932 China, Gansu 70,000 7.6
May 31, 1970 Peru 66,000 7.9 $530,000 damage, great rock slide, floods.
1268 Asia Minor, Silicia 60,000
January 11, 1693 Italy, Sicily 60,000
May 30, 1935 Pakistan, Quetta 30,000 to 60,000 7.5 Quetta almost completely destroyed.
February 4, 1783 Italy, Calabria 50,000
June 20, 1990 Iran 50,000 7.7 Landslides.

  • Note that these dates are prior to 1000 AD. No digit is missing.

NOTE: Some sources list an earthquake that killed 300,00 people in Calcutta, India, on October 11, 1737.
Recent studies indicate that these casualties were most likely due to a cyclone, not an earthquake.
(Source: The 1737 Calcutta Earthquake and Cyclone Evaluated by Roger Bilham, BSSA, Vol. 84, No. 5, 1650-1657, October 1994)

Data compiled from several sources.

professor, please note that the earthquake that is listed in the 1970’s in china, was believed to have actually killed over 3/4 of a million people. however, the chinese government has only until recently began to release full records of the disaster.

[quote]Ursus wrote:
This is exactly why the Europeans don’t get it! Yes the US Government gives less per capita. That’s because we are NOT a socialist nation! We don’t say: “Here, Daddy Government… take our money (taxes). Now please, Daddy, take care of us… You know how to spend the money oh so much better than we do…”

[/quote]

Hi Ursus,
Which socialist European nations are you referring to? I recognize that many American’s are giving privately. I’m Canadian (a socialist nation according to Fox News) yet I just made a large (for me) contribution. Does my contribution not count? I’m sure many Europeans are privately giving too and that those numbers are combined in their government’s figures either. So your comment on that is really irrelevent.
I don’t mean to be critical but I can’t stand it when someone views their system as the best. And I’m tired of Canadians being called “socialist” because we have a public health care system and public education system that works!

[quote]chrismcl wrote:
I fucking hate Liberals. No matter what the Bush Administration does, they’ll bitch. If we give money, they piss and moan. “Why is Bush helping them? They’re Muslim. They hate us.” If we don’t give money, again, they piss and moan. “Bush is such a pig. All these people are dying and he isn’t giving them money because they supposedly hate us.”[/quote]

If you’re referring to the guy who started the thread, I really doubt he’s a liberal. Liberal’s by their nature would be pushing for more aid. You need to learn what a Liberal is.

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
professor, such horrible events have occured in history. Sorry to say, but this is not even close to being the worse one ever. Here is a list:

Most Destructive Known Earthquakes on Record in the World
Earthquakes with 50,000 or More Deaths

Listed in order of greatest number of deaths

Date Location Deaths Magnitude Comments
January 23, 1556 China, Shansi 830,000 ~8
July 27, 1976 China, Tangshan 255,000
(official) 7.5 Estimated death toll as high as 655,000.
August 9, 1138 Syria, Aleppo 230,000
May 22, 1927 China, near Xining 200,000 7.9 Large fractures.
December 22, 856+ Iran, Damghan 200,000
December 16, 1920 China, Gansu 200,000 8.6 Major fractures, landslides.
March 23, 893+ Iran, Ardabil 150,000
September 1, 1923 Japan, Kwanto 143,000 7.9 Great Tokyo fire.
October 5, 1948 USSR
(Turkmenistan, Ashgabat) 110,000 7.3
December 28, 1908 Italy, Messina 70,000 to 100,000
(estimated) 7.2 Deaths from earthquake and tsunami.
September, 1290 China, Chihli 100,000
November, 1667 Caucasia, Shemakha 80,000
November 18, 1727 Iran, Tabriz 77,000
November 1, 1755 Portugal, Lisbon 70,000 8.7 Great tsunami.
December 25, 1932 China, Gansu 70,000 7.6
May 31, 1970 Peru 66,000 7.9 $530,000 damage, great rock slide, floods.
1268 Asia Minor, Silicia 60,000
January 11, 1693 Italy, Sicily 60,000
May 30, 1935 Pakistan, Quetta 30,000 to 60,000 7.5 Quetta almost completely destroyed.
February 4, 1783 Italy, Calabria 50,000
June 20, 1990 Iran 50,000 7.7 Landslides.

  • Note that these dates are prior to 1000 AD. No digit is missing.

NOTE: Some sources list an earthquake that killed 300,00 people in Calcutta, India, on October 11, 1737.
Recent studies indicate that these casualties were most likely due to a cyclone, not an earthquake.
(Source: The 1737 Calcutta Earthquake and Cyclone Evaluated by Roger Bilham, BSSA, Vol. 84, No. 5, 1650-1657, October 1994)

Data compiled from several sources.

professor, please note that the earthquake that is listed in the 1970’s in china, was believed to have actually killed over 3/4 of a million people. however, the chinese government has only until recently began to release full records of the disaster.
[/quote]

Actually, as destructive as this list is Hiroshima and Nagasaki still top the list. That and the Iraqi gas in Iran.

$35 mill for starters. Not counting the private funds being kicked in. Heard today that Johnson & Johnson is sending a few million in medical supplies and drugs. Also, don’t forget the 10’s of 1000’s of articles of clothing that will be sent over by schools when classes resume next week. Can’t put a price tag on used khakis.

The US sends billions of private money to overseas charities every year.
And every year US citizens spend more and more. I’ll try and find the link to back this up.

Guys, I’m embarrassed that I let myself get caught up in an arguement here when so many people have been killed. If anyone here wishes to donate, please do so; and for those inclined, please pray for the victims.
Ken

PS We all share at least one common interest, and in alot of these forums there tends to be a lot of arguments and personal attacks. Lets all try to treat each other as “brethren”, regardless of our personal politics.

[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
Guys, I’m embarrassed that I let myself get caught up in an arguement here when so many people have been killed. If anyone here wishes to donate, please do so; and for those inclined, please pray for the victims.
Ken

PS We all share at least one common interest, and in alot of these forums there tends to be a lot of arguments and personal attacks. Lets all try to treat each other as “brethren”, regardless of our personal politics.[/quote]

Agreed! True dat!

But don’t let the arguments get to you much. None of us are going to change the world with our political ‘discussions’. I just find I like the debating, and I often learn a lot.

Peace! Merry CHRISTmas! May God bless those poor souls. And God Bless America!

hehe! :wink:

Here is an article explaining the devastation in Sri Lanka (fka Ceylon):

SOS Sri Lanka

By NIRA WICKRAMASINGHE
Wall Street Journal
December 30, 2004; Page A8

COLOMBO, Sri Lanka – When the sea rolled back on Sunday, leaving a beach – peppered with flapping fish – that stretched to the horizon, people ran toward it or just stood rooted in amazement, displaying the islanders’ habit of checking out “what’s happening.”

Then the tidal wave engulfed them.

While international network TV stations continue to bombard the world with gruesome images and ever increasing numbers of casualties, the people of Sri Lanka are mourning their dead and disappeared while continuing to look desperately for survivors. Most bodies cannot be identified. The Justice Ministry has made arrangements to photograph, fingerprint and allocate a file number before the interment of each victim. People of all walks of life have died and as President Chandrika Kumaratunge said in her address to the nation, nature is not selective in the destruction it wreaks: Fisherfolk at sea, travelers in trains, families on holiday driving on the Galle road in packed buses, foreign and local tourists in beach hotels, kids playing cricket on the sand. Most of those who lost their homes and livelihoods appear to be, however, from the poorer sections of society.

All New Year celebrations are cancelled by a people who were until now carefree and accustomed to dance to the local “baila” music and drink until merry, even in times of war and strife. A sense of gloom pervades, as everything stands still and white flags fleck the streets of the island. In Hambantota, the stench of rotting bodies makes the return to work unbearable.


Many of those who perished along two-thirds of the coastline of the island hit by the tsunamis were associated with the sea. These communities that initially hailed from the Southern coast of India had trickled into Sri Lanka over a period of time extending from the 13th to the 18th century; they settled along the coasts of the island, where they engaged in fishing and trade with the rest of the people. While many melted into Sinhalese society by adopting its language and Buddhism, others, like those in Negombo, a predominantly Roman Catholic port on the western coast, continued to speak both Sinhala and Tamil. The coasts were contact zones where cultures, memories and histories merged and borrowed from each other.

Since colonial times, the island’s western coastal region has been densely populated and urbanized, primarily at the mouths of rivers and lagoons. The area enjoyed a great diversity of resources: products of the sea upon which a thriving maritime commerce is based, coconut trees, carpentry, and in the recent decades tourism. At the southernmost point of the island, Galle and Matara, two cities developed under the Dutch, were severely hit by the waves. Roads, bus stations, and commercial organizations were completely destroyed.

The areas ravaged by the tidal waves, stretching from Galle to Hambantota, were the cradle of Sinhalese leftist rebellions spearheaded by unemployed youth. In attempts to defuse social tensions, successive governments moved garment and other industries to these areas, modernized the port at Galle, established a university at Matara, and proposed the creation of another port at Hambantota. Recently, work on a highway running through the interior and linking Colombo to Matara was started with much fanfare. Today this destroyed area – the Ruhuna – must feel even more alienated from the privileged western province and the Colombo ?lites. Reconstruction is not only an economic urgency but also a political one.

Information is coming in more slowly on the extent of the damage in the Northern and Eastern coastal areas. People from the area mention considerable damage to the military bases in the Northern province. Although population is unevenly distributed in the coastal zones stretching from Jaffna to Pottuvil on the eastern shore and up to Negombo on the western shore, with the exception of Batticaloa, an important center for rice export, the casualties appear to be very high. A colleague from the Southeastern University in Oluvil speaks of 10,000 deaths in the Ampara district alone. The port city of Trincomalee, economically dormant since the beginning of the civil war, was just waking up from slumber with the recent opening of new tourist resorts on its beautiful beaches. Its most popular resort, Nilaveli Beach hotel, was one of the worst hit.

While the dead are buried and mourned, the survivors need to be cared for as the threat of epidemics is looming. The disaster management unit set up by the government is operating through district coordinating committees to send relief to the affected areas. The figures of human and material destruction are staggering. Nearly two million people have lost their homes and livelihoods – and bear in mind that social security and welfare benefits, as understood in the Western world, are virtually nonexistent. The immediate needs are for medicines, drinking water, shelter, clothes and dry rations. Psychological help and assistance in finding new livelihoods for those who have lost everything must follow.

In the small coastal town of Beruwela, the fishing industry has lost over 100 boats and hundreds of thousands of rupees worth of fishing gear. Land will have to be allocated and new houses built for the fishermen along the coasts. About 10,000 telecommunication lines have been destroyed in the Hambantota area. In the town itself, the authorities were able to establish 10 satellite phones and are also using amateur radios to communicate with people in areas where telephones are not functioning. Around 800 kilometers of rail track have been destroyed. The Road Development Authority, assisted by army engineers, is coordinating the clearing of the roads, which is a prerequisite for relief to reach those who need it most. The navy has incurred losses on the southern coast – it acknowledges the loss of two vessels and the destruction of the navy bases at Kirinda and Galle – and most probably the Tamil separatist LTTE’s “Sea Tigers,” on the eastern coast in their stronghold of Mullaitivu, suffered similar losses.

The physical damage, though considerable, is being dealt with thanks to the generous contribution of friendly nations, as well as Sri Lankans from all backgrounds. We hope, however, that aid supplies are cleared quickly and dispatched, and that aid flows in – less in the guise of foreign experts than in the form of tangible material assistance. Sri Lanka is a country that has local knowledge in areas such as agriculture, health, engineering, and telecommunications. The authorities and aid agencies must rely on the local experts when long-term development assessments are drawn up.

Although the Sri Lanka Tourist Board announced that the majority of foreign tourists were not keen to leave the country and have continued their tours inland undeterred by the calamity, Sri Lanka will for some time at least be synonymous with tsunami. It is therefore imperative that the government pulls through its plan to establish an Advanced Early Warning System supported by French and U.S. expertise, not only for the benefit of tourists and the 87,000 people who are directly or indirectly employed in tourism (which generates 4.3% of revenues), but for all Sri Lankans – a people defined by the sea, even when it is malevolent.

Ms. Wickramasinghe is a professor in the department of History and International Relations, University of Colombo.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

You are an asshole. The U.S. comprises 40% of ALL public aid in the last 2 years. 40%. The private donations from U.S. citizens totaled $5 billion.

I shudder to think that there are people out there like you - big steaming pieces of shit.

[/quote]

It’s good to see that you are keeping this at a high intellectual level.

Why don’t you do everybody a favor and go crack a book, bub.

Being that other countries contributed to help us out after 911 and since we are supposedly a “world leader” and routinely go into other countries to “liberate” or whatever, and take steps to compromise ourselves to help other countries, I would say it is only right that we give aid to Indonesia. And considering Bush has been talking about improving the American image, I would say that if someone threw $35 million in my direction it would definitly help change my opinion. If they refuse to accept aid, then I would understand that (which a few days ago I heard an official said they were going to refuse help), however apparently the death toll has doubled to about 112,000 since this thread started, so a donation of around a quarter billion from foreign countries is necessary.

India is the country that is refusing help - they ask that it be given to the other nations.

Also, I believe Sri Lanka specifically refused Israeli help.

Also, note that, in addition to monetary aid, the government is donating military manpower and equipment for humanitarian relief – I wouldn’t know how to fix the dollar value, but I would guess it’s quite high:

http://www.guampdn.com/news/stories/20041229/localnews/1797901.html

Ship to sail for Sri Lanka
Marines to aid victims of tsunamis

By Natalie J. Quinata
Pacific Daily News; nquinata@guampdn.com

More than 5,000 military personnel of the Navy’s Expeditionary Strike Group 5 will skip their New Year’s holiday on Guam to fulfill a humanitarian mission in Sri Lanka.

The USS Bonhomme Richard docked in Apra Harbor yesterday for what was originally planned to be a five-day stay, but was called to bring relief aid to the inhabitants of Sri Lanka who were devastated by a tsunami this past weekend.

Sri Lanka was one of 10 nations that were affected by the 9.0 magnitude earthquake that originated in the northern area of the Indonesian island of Sumatra. More than 40,000 people have died from the effects of the earthquake and the tsunamis it generated in countries that included India, Thailand and Somalia. The death count continues to climb.

The ship and its crew recently began their six-month deployment on Dec. 6 from their home port in San Diego, Calif. They were scheduled to be on Guam through Sunday.

Despite the missed opportunity to celebrate the new year at the island’s clubs and hotels, Marine Expeditionary Unit members weren’t disappointed about having their weekend festivities cut short.

“I don’t really care, I’m just looking forward to doing something,” said Pfc. Kevin Becvar, who is with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.

Becvar said he is used to the instability of his job and is ready to take on whatever missions come his way.

“We were never guaranteed we were going to stay here, and things change all the time,” explained Lance Cpl. Johnson Garciavasquez, who has been a Marine for two years.

The USS Bonhomme Richard is a multi-purpose amphibious assault ship whose mission is support of the global war on terrorism.

The USS Bonhomme Richard not only supports the missions of the Navy, but also deploys and lands elements of a Marine landing force in amphibious assault operations by helicopter and landing operations by helicopter, landing craft and amphibious vehicles, according to a press release from the Navy public affairs office.

Traveling with the USS Bonhomme Richard were the USS Duluth and USS Rushmore, both of which didn’t pull into port yesterday. The two ships are capable of transporting 2,200 personnel.

[Mod, please delete – sorry this posted twice – the first time, I got an error message and it told me whatever I was doing had failed]

Further info on relief:

U.S. Sets Coalition for Tsunami Aid
Japan, India and Australia
Join to Coordinate Relief;
China’s Effort Is Criticized

By GREG HITT in Washington, LESLIE CHANG in Beijing and CHARLES FLEMING in Paris
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
December 30, 2004; Page A3

Western nations expanded their assistance to devastated regions in South Asia, even as China lagged in making a major commitment to help neighboring countries.

The U.S. yesterday said it was enlisting Japan, India and Australia in a coalition to coordinate relief for victims of the tsunami that swept through the Indian Ocean. As the death toll climbed to an estimated 77,000, the initiative underscored the intensifying focus on a disaster of epic proportions.

Amid a massive European airlift of food and medical supplies, Denmark stepped forward yesterday to lead a multinational effort to establish a U.N. disaster center on the swamped island of Sumatra. And German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder called on members of the Paris Club, a group of 19 creditor nations, to suspend debt payments by Indonesia and Somalia.

But conspicuously absent from the rush of countries providing significant assistance was China. Beijing dispatched a shipment of materials to Sri Lanka, and was preparing a companion delivery to Indonesia. However, China has postponed sending a team of 15 doctors to Sri Lanka, citing safety concerns. And Beijing has pledged only $2.6 million in total aid to the afflicted countries, half the commitment made by Taiwan and less even than the pledge of a single Hong Kong businessman. (See related article.)

“This amount is too small,” said Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing. Over the past several years, China has attempted to promote itself in Asia as a good neighbor and partner, rather than a rival and a threat. But the mixed response to the disaster illustrates Beijing’s uneasy transition from developing nation to economic juggernaut, and the attendant difficulty of taking on wider responsibilities in the world. A Chinese official, for example, said Beijing is willing to send medical teams elsewhere but cannot because “only Sri Lanka” had extended an invitation.

“China has always felt itself poor, so its sense of international responsibility has always been less,” Mr. Shi said. “Now it is not so poor, but it still feels itself poor.”

Beijing has more than $500 billion in foreign-exchange reserves and is no stranger to using assistance to score political points. Since the 1960s, it has funded aid and infrastructure programs in the developing world, particularly Africa. After a massive earthquake in 1999 in Taiwan, Beijing attempted to send emergency materials and a team of hundreds of disaster-relief and medical experts, but was rebuffed by Taiwan’s authorities.

Whether China will give more than it pledged “will depend on how the situation in those countries develops,” said an official in the Asian section of the Ministry of Commerce’s department of foreign aid. He declined to comment on suggestions that China is doing too little.

Meanwhile, President Bush, speaking from his ranch in Crawford, Texas, where he is on vacation, said the ultimate U.S. response will far exceed the $35 million in taxpayer dollars committed thus far to the Asian relief effort. “We are committed to helping the affected countries in the difficult weeks and months that lie ahead,” Mr. Bush said. “These past few days have brought loss and grief to the world that is beyond our comprehension.”

Mr. Bush said the U.S. will work with India, Australia and Japan to provide immediate humanitarian relief and long-term recovery and reconstruction efforts. U.S. officials portrayed the four-nation group as the core of a potentially larger coalition that could streamline the delivery of assistance.

Andrew Natsios, director of the U.S. Agency for International Development, said he expects the four-nation coalition announced yesterday will work with the U.N. and other organizations in the field. He stressed that the $35 million committed by the U.S. so far represents just the “initial response” of the Bush administration. More aid will inevitably follow, he said, once U.S. disaster officials assess immediate needs for food, medical care, water and sanitation, and housing in the devastated region. That process, he predicted, will take “days, rather than weeks.” He declined to estimate potential long-term costs, and whether Congress will need to appropriate additional money to meet future U.S. commitments.

Mr. Bush suggested he is open to Chancellor Schroeder’s call for debt relief. “We’ll look at all requests,” he said. Mr. Schroeder said he hopes to propose the measure in January at a meeting of the Paris Club. Of the many nations hit hard over the weekend by the deadly waves, Indonesia and Somalia are the only two with Paris Club debt agreements.

In Brussels, the European Union’s Humanitarian Aid Commissioner, Louis Michel, is calling for a conference of major donor countries, as well as the U.N., World Bank and International Monetary Fund, to address the more costly, longer-term needs of South Asia once the immediate humanitarian crisis has been met. “The financial means needed for rehabilitation are even bigger than the ones for humanitarian aid,” said Amadeu Altafaj, a spokesman for Mr. Michel. “We know there is a serious risk that there is a gap between the two phases.”

The pressure for more coordination reflects the rapidly evolving focus of relief efforts around the world. While there is a rush to aid victims, there is also a hope to avoid wasting resources. The U.N. yesterday launched a global appeal for $130 million to fund U.N. programs in the hardest-hit countries. Some of the money requested by the U.N. could be drawn from the more than $200 million already pledged by nations around the world. Beyond the $35 million committed by the U.S., Germany has pledged $27 million, Great Britain $29 million and Japan $30 million. But much of the money pledged by donor nations already has claims on it, either in the form of contributions to groups such as the Red Cross or through independent expenditures made by foreign governments, underscoring the need for greater cooperation in the world-wide effort.

Setting aside the fund-raising appeal, the U.N.'s biggest impact at the moment may be in coordinating the actions on the ground by private relief groups and foreign governments. U.N. humanitarian officials, for example, are taking a lead role in organizing relief efforts in Indonesia. Yesterday they appealed for assistance, such as supplies of food, ambulances, mobile medical clinics, blankets and plastic sheets, and noted that all public hospitals in the troubled Banda Aceh province had been demolished.

Meanwhile, in addition to their efforts to send aid to the afflicted zone, European governments are seeking ways to cope with the deaths of their own citizens. Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, and Norway are each still missing about 1,000 or more nationals, according to wire reports. Unspecified large numbers of French and British holidaymakers are also still unaccounted for. In Germany, Mr. Schroeder ordered all flags on government buildings to be lowered to half-mast. “It is now a sad certainty that German vacationers are among the dead. So far, 26 German citizens have been identified and about 1,000 German citizens are still missing,” he said.


HOW TO HELP

Charities and relief agencies around the world have set up hotlines and websites for donations to assist recovery efforts in areas hardest hit by the South Asian tsunamis. Here are some of the organizations participating in the effort:

? AmeriCares: Call 800-486-4357 or visit http://www.americares.org

? CARE: Call 800-521-2273 or visit http://www.careusa.org

? Doctors Without Borders: Call 888-392-0392 or visit http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org

? The International Red Cross and Red Crescent societies: Call 800-HELP-NOW or visit http://www.redcross.org

? Oxfam of the U.K.: Call 011-44-870-333-2700 or visit http://www.oxfam.co.uk

? Save the Children Federation: Call 800 728-3843 or visit http://www.savethechildren.org

Far From Stingy
December 31, 2004; Page A10

Across the world, the reaction to Asia’s tsunami is bringing out the best in human nature. Fund-raising appeals, disaster-relief teams, military assets – all are being marshaled for the victims of this tragedy.

Which makes it all the more outrageous that a top United Nations official chose this week to accuse the U.S. and other Western nations of being stingy with assistance to poorer nations. “We were more generous when we were less rich,” Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland lectured on Monday. “And it is beyond me why we are so stingy, really.”

Now, complaints about U.S. miserliness are more routine than the earthquakes and floods that strike the globe. A favorite “fact” of international critics is that while the U.S. government nearly always ranks first in absolute amounts of foreign aid, it tends to fall last among industrial countries in aid as a percentage of gross national product. The one-tenth of one percent that Washington devotes to foreign assistance, they say, is nothing compared with what the U.S. could afford.

The problem is that, as with so many questions of accounting (say, Oil for Food), the U.N. and other international bodies rely on unreliable ledgers. Groups like the Development Assistance Committee (part of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development) tend to look only at “official” government aid. What this misses is that Americans have never trusted government institutions to dole out assistance. Instead, we open our wallets for private groups that are better at targeting money where it’s needed, tracking projects, cutting waste – and getting results.

When it comes to this sort of giving, nobody beats Americans. According to a 2003 report from the U.S. Agency for International Development, U.S. international assistance to developing countries in 2000 was $56 billion. Yet just 18% of that was “official” government assistance. Some $33.6 billion – or 60% – came from the private sector. Corporations shelled out nearly $3 billion. Religious groups weighed in with $3.4 billion. Individuals provided $18 billion. To say nothing of funds from foundations, private and voluntary organizations, or universities.

Cynics mark this generosity down to a U.S. tax code that encourages giving. Yet most research shows that Americans view donations as a duty. Philanthropy magazine reports a study showing the average U.S. contribution outweighs the average German or French one seven- or eight-fold. This sense of responsibility is often motivated by faith; some 60% of American donations go to religious groups or causes.

None of this sits well with the U.N., whose own budget relies on state dollars. A chastened Mr. Egeland was forced later this week to claim he’d been misinterpreted and to acknowledge U.S. generosity. But behind this apology is the U.N.'s longstanding belief that what’s really needed is for the U.S. and others to raise taxes to pay for more public foreign aid.

That approach reigns in Western Europe and explains what’s wrong with so much of current foreign aid. Europeans have come to view private donations as a failure of the state and expect their governments to collect billions in taxes to shuffle along to slow-moving and unaccountable international bureaucracies. The result is a lose-lose situation. Giving countries see their own economies depressed by higher taxes and receiving countries find the aid too often enabling strongmen or perpetuating poor policies.

A far better approach, at least in the public sphere, are initiatives such as President Bush’s Millennium Challenge Account. By tying long-term assistance to improvements in specific economic and political goals – such as cracking down on corruption or establishing rules of law – foreign aid brings about real reform. This approach drives U.N. bureaucrats nuts, a sure sign it’s on the right track.

Today’s priority in Asia is immediate humanitarian relief. The list of U.S.-based private and religious organizations already working in the area is stunning. And it’s good to see the U.S. decision effectively to go around U.N. bureaucracy by working directly with a coalition of Japan, Australia and India to coordinate relief. Meanwhile, we can expect the federal government to continue its tradition of generosity in the upcoming weeks – a tradition that resulted in $2.4 billion in humanitarian relief last year alone, or 40% of the world total.

But future money, both public and private, should be aimed at developing the sort of governments and economies that will be equipped to deal with disasters on their own.

[quote]Pambele wrote:
It’s good to see that you are keeping this at a high intellectual level.

Why don’t you do everybody a favor and go crack a book, bub.[/quote]

We’re in the middle of the worst disaster most of us will ever see. You’re whining like a little leftist baby about how the U.S. is not paying their fair share - and I’m lacking in the intellect dept.?

Sorry Junior, but your attacks were unfounded and mispalced - especially since we are out giving the rest of the world in aid. My facts are right. Prove them wrong.

I have no patience for those that want to find fault with the U.S. in every situation - this would include you wrt the current discussion. If I sounded snitty - tough shit. I’m right. Prove me wrong.

It’s truly amazing how some people are so ignorant of the world. But I guess if you mistake Brunei for Indonesia then you can be excused for your total ignorance of anything other than counting your reps.

Indonesia is a Muslim country but if you every went there you would know that 90% of the population is very pro west - including the government. Yes, it does have a very radical extremist movement within the country but that doesn’t mean that indonesia is anti west.

Furthermore, Thailand also has a radical muslim movement - so does the Philippines - so does Malaysia but all are pro west.

But all this aside this a disaster of epic proportions - the US must take the lead in helping. It is the right thing to do.

Can’t remember who said this on a similar idiotic thread but it applies - " high t does not equal small brain"